Fixing the DPS queue the easy way

[armpit]

LOL...Horrible idea. Just get a group first and then que.

[Garnik]

There is nothing to "Fix". If you don't want to long waiting times, roll a tank, please, then will the rest of us who can take it have a sligtly shorter waiting time. If not, you better stop crying and suck it up.

[Kazlehoff]

Solution for Hybrids:

Get a tank / healer spec for 5mans. enjoy instant queues.

[Guesswho69]

The best solution would be to just launch Starcraft II or Diablo II within a browser when you enter a Queue for heroics.

[Oshinz]

As much as you bring up a good point. It's also something that would be hard to impliment.

My suggestion is perhaps change the following.

5man Normal/Heroics -> Untouched
10man Normal/Heroics -> Mini Raid
15man Normal/Heroics -> Raid Tier 1
25man Normal/Heroics -> Raid Tier 2

[conscript]

Its rather simple idee, buff al health pools of bosses and thrash, and put 7 dps instead of 3 in one group. Semi raid, with 1 tank, 2 healers, 7 dps. You can mark this option at the LFG window. *Enable 10 man instances.

You can make this attractive for players by giving them 50% more rep then normal HC's, about the same number of item drops as 10 man raids, and the daily HC rewarding 20 more Valor?

This idea is just very stupid. Firstly, the players shouldn't receive additional compensation at all for doing it by this method. Your compensation is lowering the queue, which this won't actually do at all. For a 10-man instance to be successful, it would need to be balanced around 2 tanks, 2 healers, and 6 dps. You know what that would change about queue times? ABSOLUTELY NOTHING. Even your suggestion of taking 1 tank, 2 healers and 7 dps would do jack crap to the queue for dps. Assuming that this was the primary method of queuing, the only thing it would change is that one additional dps get in per queue cycle which would lower your times by a whopping amount, probably around 5 minutes. Your system also requires there to be twice as many healers as tanks, which there necessarily aren't. Instead of queues being reliant on tanks as they currently are depending on level and time of day, they will be completely crippled by a lack of healers. Congratulations, you took one problem and replaced it with another and your queue times were in no way changed.

The LFG system is already fixed by either playing a tank/healing spec, joining a guild and queue with others, or just joining the queue and doing other stuff. All of these threads are pointless QQ by the McDonald's generation who grew up wanting things RIGHT NOW and getting it thanks to advances in technology.

[sicness]

I don't get why people are so confused about why the queues are so long. It's not due to a shortage of players, it's due to the length of the dungeons.

They're not going to change the game for heroic queues by doing some of the radical things people are suggesting here. Either pick up a healer or tank friend and queue with them or deal with it, there's not much more to it without them making serious changes to the game that I just don't foresee them doing just so people have shorter queues.

[llDemonll]

There is a reason that Strat, Scholomance, etc., etc. were changed to 5-man instances back in Vanilla.

This would counter groups actually needing to work together and, as stated earlier, would make 10-man raids semi-obsolete.

---------- Post added 2011-01-06 at 11:48 AM ----------

I don't get why people are so confused about why the queues are so long. It's not due to a shortage of players, it's due to the length of the dungeons.

It's due to not having enough tanks. Having leveled a tank to 85 recently I can tell you that I had 5 minute queues at most, and almost all the time it was virtually instant (under 1 minute). My friend on a different server also had the same experience

[conscript]

30-45 min is actually too long for me now. Personally, I don't want to be bothered when I only have a limited amount of time to play. And let's not get confused with short runs = easy. They can still be difficult but short. Anyways, Blizz will nerf all the instances sooner or later, and people will be back to 15 min runs.

Then why do you care? If you can't sit there for 30-45 minutes then you clearly aren't raiding at all as that takes far larger chunks of time. Why even bother with heroics as they are essentially just raid preparation for gear and ability. You don't need 346 gear to do quests or farm stuff. People are already back to 15 minute runs in nearly every heroic because they over gear them anyways. If the instances were shorter and difficult people would QQ because of the time they take thanks to wipes.

[sicness]

It's due to not having enough tanks. Having leveled a tank to 85 recently I can tell you that I had 5 minute queues at most, and almost all the time it was virtually instant (under 1 minute). My friend on a different server also had the same experience

Yes, however the length of time in queue has more to do with the fact that dungeons take at least 30-45 minutes to clear than there being such a shortage on tanks. It's the same reason why in WotLK you'd queue up and wait a maximum of 20 minutes.

[Anthonian]

30-45 min is actually too long for me now. Personally, I don't want to be bothered when I only have a limited amount of time to play. And let's not get confused with short runs = easy. They can still be difficult but short. Anyways, Blizz will nerf all the instances sooner or later, and people will be back to 15 min runs.

There are plenty of times when I log in and don't have the time to do an instance. During these times I'll work on some dailies or level professions. Every time you log in doesn't mean you have to do an instance. Just because you "don't want to be bothered" doesn't mean there's anything wrong with the instances. Personally I love the new instances. I like the challenge and love having to actually think about what I'm doing.

[conscript]

Yes, however the length of time in queue has more to do with the fact that dungeons take at least 30-45 minutes to clear than there being such a shortage on tanks. It's the same reason why in WotLK you'd queue up and wait a maximum of 20 minutes.

There are far fewer tanks and healers currently than there were in Wrath. While instance length has some effect, the major culprit is the fact that the tank/heal/dps ratio is about 1/1.5/400. If it was anywhere even close to 1/1/3 then queue times would be nonexistent. Another major problem is that there is basically no incentive to doing heroics. As a healer or tank you can get all your reputations, main spec JP, and off spec JP gear done in about a week. Aside from queuing for your daily heroic, there is no reason at all to go back except in pre-made achievement groups.

[sicness]

There are far fewer tanks and healers currently than there were in Wrath. While instance length has some effect, the major culprit is the fact that the tank/heal/dps ratio is about 1/1.5/400. If it was anywhere even close to 1/1/3 then queue times would be nonexistent. Another major problem is that there is basically no incentive to doing heroics. As a healer or tank you can get all your reputations, main spec JP, and off spec JP gear done in about a week. Aside from queuing for your daily heroic, there is no reason at all to go back except in pre-made achievement groups.

I'm really not so convinced that's the case though when I can queue up daily with my healer and it still takes 5 minutes for the queue. There may be a tank shortage, but I honestly think the queue length has a lot more to do with the length of the dungeons than there being such a tank shortage.

As far as more incentive to do heroics, I really don't think there needs to be. The daily VP should be more than enough for the majority of people. I mean there's barely 2-3 guilds per server who are clearing so much that they don't need to do the daily for VP so it's not like people don't need them. You shouldn't 'force' people to run heroics just because there's a tank or healer shortage.

[Alsonia]

They don't need to nerf the instances. As people get geared up the instance runs will go faster. Especially once 4.1 hits. Blizzard has taken the approach that instances should NOT be completed in under 20 minutes. I'm sorry if you don't have time but that's just the way it is. Best case for you would be to find some decent players to run with and mow them down.

Even if it means you get to only do 1 heroic instead of 2 then so be it. It's about the quality of the content, not the quantity.

No if people don't suck the instance will go faster, plain and simple if you cleanly CC and tank well DPS focus properly the instance won't last any time at all. A couple guildies and I can go through a heroic in about 25 or so minutes using a Paladin tank and any healer really just AoE tanking everything.


Secondly on top of the 45 minute runs depending on BG, DPS have wait an upwards of 40 minutes. Almost 2 hours to complete an easy dungeon, and that's being conservative in terms of time. It's a little out of hand. People like myself who have a tank spec or healing spec refuse to use it because of the way DPS treat tanks/healers in instances if they fuck up, not to mention I'm always carrying my groups in DPS what's to say they won't suck balls when I tank and pull less damage than me?

tl;dr Guild Groups, don't suck

[Anciant]

That is nice, but considered that 1 healer needs to heal all the new DPS aswell?

Healers can barely keep up 3 dps + tank as it is on some fights. Propper geared HC ppl can easily heal the 3 + 1
Even tho 3 +1 is easily healed, 6+1 makes it a different story. Try to keep all dps alive, its harder to coordinate and some ppl have trouble to coordinate as it is.. with a total of 5 and not 9 man.

Defenitly a thought, but should consider about the healer aswell. The load will be to much OR the dps should all perfectly know what they need to do!

i see what your saying but it wont be 1 healer itll be 2 healers and honestly my guild 2 healed halfus in BoT so..........yea point invalidated

---------- Post added 2011-01-06 at 08:19 PM ----------

Not gonna happen.

BUT.....

It would have been interesting if

Normal = 5 man
Heroic = 5 man
Insane = 10 man of the same stuff above
Raid = 10's or 25

I really don't like the 10 man raiding. I do, because it's easier and we can do it while the rest of the guild gets ready for 25's. But in theory, it's not raid-like at all and nothing like the epic 25 man's (or larger) of times past.


The 10 man "insanes" should just be balanced for 1 tank, 2 heals, 7 dps. And have ilvl gear somewhere between heroics and epics, with perhaps the last boss doing epic's only. In return for all this additional 10 man content, a few raids should be 25's only. 25 man raiding is going to die except at the top guilds the way it is now. Just no reason to get 25 people together to do stuff when 10 will do.

off topic: 10 mans are by no means "easier" than 25 aside from maybe organization think about it you deal with he same affects and from what read about boss fighs 25 and 10 man deal with same amount of damage coming from boss only difference is alot more health on boss, this info is coming from the boss info mmo-champion put on website the week before cata came out which showed no difference aside from health

on topic: have raids being 25 only would nerf 10man guilds which are already nerfed because bigger guilds lvl up faster, and are more wealthy because of the cas flow perk. there is reason for geting 25 people together it honestly depends on your preference and in no way are 25 mans dieing out the problem is when people start new guilds for raiding they aim for 10mans usually because its easier to get 10 solid people instead of 25 but if ur in a guild that is serious about raid progression then 25 people shouldnt be a problem

[Lebored]

If you want to make the ques go faster just setup a group in in /chat. You know like we had to do for years before being able to just push a button and let it setup itself.

It's super quick and the people you group with are less likely to act like ass hats because you are from the same server. You can also enforce minimum gear requirements if you so chose.

[Tigercat]

7 random retards in a group instead of 3?

I'd stop queueing.

[Anciant]

if your a casual player join one of the hundreds of lvling guilds that haave over 500 people and run dungeons with them............help lvl ur guild run with people who arent total tards, get gear, prob can do 2 or 3 dungeons in a couple hours, and blizz wont have to make dungeons easy for facerolling wrath babies everyone wins

---------- Post added 2011-01-06 at 08:27 PM ----------

30-45 min is actually too long for me now. Personally, I don't want to be bothered when I only have a limited amount of time to play. And let's not get confused with short runs = easy. They can still be difficult but short. Anyways, Blizz will nerf all the instances sooner or later, and people will be back to 15 min runs.

30-45 mins was the intended amount of time and im srry but.........short runs do = easy because in order to make it shorter they need to remove mobs(mobs are actaully tough in some cases now), makes bosses have less health, for some bosses flat out make there abilities easier to deal with to shorten fights and a number of different things they can do but before u try and reply im not saying all of these things have to happen im saying atleast 1 or 2 of them

[Aphrel]

a much better idea to fix the que whould be this.

1. reduce all trash and boss mele dmg. so that any dps can tank (well. meledps.)

2. give all mobs /bosses spells that does aoe dmg (so nomatter if you ahve a real tank or a mele dpser the dmg output will not change that much as the major ehaling will be to ehal upp magic dmg form aoespells.)

3. add mele dps to teh tank que in teh lfd feature.

while this whould still make heroics jsut as hard for dps and healers. it whould make tanking rediculsly easy.
but one could have it as an alternative when dps que gets to long. make it so that if there is a real tank. then ist normal, but if there isnt any tank in que you get into the modified version.

[Lebored]

a much better idea to fix the que whould be this.

1. reduce all trash and boss mele dmg. so that any dps can tank (well. meledps.)

2. give all mobs /bosses spells that does aoe dmg (so nomatter if you ahve a real tank or a mele dpser the dmg output will not change that much as the major ehaling will be to ehal upp magic dmg form aoespells.)

3. add mele dps to teh tank que in teh lfd feature.

while this whould still make heroics jsut as hard for dps and healers. it whould make tanking rediculsly easy.
but one could have it as an alternative when dps que gets to long. make it so that if there is a real tank. then ist normal, but if there isnt any tank in que you get into the modified version.

You really think AoE healing is just as mana intensive as single target?

Yes lets break the game because you don't want to take the time to setup a group yourself you want it automated.