Final Talent Point Allocation for Disc

[Zandramas]

Hi there,

I'm an older WoW player (both in my real age and in that I've been playing since just before the original release of Naxx). I've taken a break from WoW for a few months because I went traveling with my grandsons but now that I've returned, I'm going to be picking up Cataclysm - taking advantage of the 10-day free trial now. I've always been a disc priest and I usually know what I need to know about the class/spec but my absence has left me with a question that I haven't seen answered in any posts.

Here is the spec that I am planning to use: wowtal.com/#k=_18T8bB2.a8t.priest.-jrrK2 (I can't post links yet. )

I am not a min/maxer so while smite healing may not be the best idea, I like it enough now that I'm playing with it that I wish to take it. Seems to me to make things more dynamic instead of sometimes just sitting around. I've taken both ToT and SoS because I want to be able to toss various as needed and have my abilities work well together and so that I can more effectively move through tank/raid healing responsibilities.

My question is in regards to the last 2 point allocation: Most specs I see go for at 2 points in Mental Agility - but these seem to be fillers really as most Atonement specs just don't pick up ToT and do 3/3 MA and 3/3 EH. However, considering that I want to pick up ToT, is 2/3 MA worth investing in vs. 1/3 MA and 3/3 Empowered Healing bringing your casted spells healing efficiency to 15% rather than 10%? I ask because the only instant spells disc uses are PW:S and PoM so I'm wondering if the 7% mana reduction really worth it vs only a 4% reducing + 5% healing gain from Gheal/heal? I ask this keeping in mind that a mana conserving strategy I've found so far is to stack Evangelism to 5 and then just keep it going for cheaper Penance's only activating Archangel if I know some difficult healing is ahead or if I need some healing boost for whatever reason.

Thanks for any help you can provide.

[ghepip]

:O your using my priest signature xD Nice

[Eliot123]

What about using those last two points in Surge of Light maybe? >.>

[Lysdexic]

If you're going to be smiting a fair amount then both Empowered Healing and Mental Agility lose some of their value. What about Darkness however? Haste is good for everything you do.

In fact, my advice would be to drop to 1/2 Soul Warding (unless you plan on casting back to back shields frequently) and to drop Inspiration as well. Inspiration's uptime is chancy at best when healing a tank with traditional heals. If you're going to be spending a significant time smiting, then its uptime will be even lower.

[Zephriel]

I am in the "Disc archangel is pointless" camp. In a raid situation there is not time to toss out 5 smites just to gain 5% of your mana back. This ability cost 5 talent points and uses a glyph spot. (3 into evangelism 1 into arch 2 into atonement and the hit glyph) I would rather put the points into the shadow fiend CD reduction and be smart with my use of it and get 2-3 SF off per fight. we will see how it is in 4.0.6 but this is how i will start

wowtal.com/#k=veNE8o.a8t.priest.qQomdr

[Lysdexic]

I am not a min/maxer so while smite healing may not be the best idea, I like it enough now that I'm playing with it that I wish to take it.

I'm sure glad Zephriel can read.

[Zephriel]

Oh I can read, just trying to help a non "min/maxer" out. he may like it now, but when he gets booted from heroics and raids he may revisit this post and be thankful.

But thanks for the sarcastic, asshole response. I love how ppl get bashed for trying to help on forums, grow up bro.

[Siri]

Ok so, atonement is pretty fun to play!
This is what I use when I play it: http://wowtal.com/#k=YYLDxstD.a8t.priest.qHhh9D

Some explanations of the talent allocation.
Shields are not a strong heal and should account for very little of your overall healing, the main reason to cast shields is to proc rapture, that's about it.
Soul Warding is fairly useless, if you cast shields so often that you think this is worth it, you're doing it wrong.
The point in Inner Sanctum is because I prefer it over the point in shields.
Borrowed time is taken because even if shields aren't that strong it's still nice to use it on the move and then use a faster strong heal to catch up.
Strength of Soul sometimes gets one point because the cooldown of rapture is 12 seconds anyway, reducing the total duration of weakened soul beyond that is not very useful. Seeing as I never have any sort of mana problems as atonement I don't even bother with one point.
Train of Thought makes GHeal virtually as effective as normal Heals (assuming no overheal of course), as much as you might want to, you can't smite all the time, GHeal is your go-to heal at those times. Also reduces the CD on penance which great if you need to stack up grace on a new target.
Focused Will is great for a multitude of raid fights (not as good as blessed resilience that holy has, but still good), if you aren't raiding at all, feel free to put these somewhere else.
Empowered Healing, unless you have to use GHeal a lot, the third point isn't needed.
Inspiration can often be skipped in 25man raids, depends on what other heals you have that provide the same buff. If you feel like you can skip it, put the points in empowered healing and darkness instead.

Saved Archangel for last, if you skip this, you're doing it wrong. The mana return isn't the big reason, the healing bonus is. The 15% bonus healing applies to atonement nowadays, it's always excellent to use when you need to switch over to aoe healing for a while or need the extra burst for stronger GHeals.

Also, atonement is very viable on a whole bunch of fights in raids, you just can't expect to heal with only smites.

[Zandramas]

Thanks for the advice so far.

-> Eliot123:
-That's an interesting idea. I'll have to look more into it to see if Surge of Light procs often enough to be worth taking. The only thing that worries me is its uptime: 6% for 2 talent points... may or may not be worth it. Although, with the new changes, SoL will also be procing off of GHeal and be capable of a crit? Definitely sounds good enough that I should look into it.

->Lysdexic:
-I'm certainly not planning on smiting a whole lot in the sense that that's how I'm looking to heal in a raid. A "smart heal," smart as it is, is not really good, as I'm sure you know. It's probably more appropriate for 5-mans and trash and provides (at least it proves me) some random fun. Having said that, I enjoy tank healing - although in WotLK I raid healed a bit with my disco priest but mostly stuck to my tree druid because that was more interesting. From what I've read so far from here and EJ and some other sites, I'm definitely thinking about 3/3 EH because I think I'd like to go for the "30% crit, 30% mastery and then worry bout haste" build and use GHeal (with ToT) as my big tank maintenance with everything else working around that. I mostly raid 10 man so, and I've heard that good players (which I consider myself to be.... most of the time) can certainly maintain a tank by themselves while also tossing raid help here and there. That's why I'm leaning to ward Inspiration as well. Although, as we're no longer bubble spammers, 1/2 Soul Warding is worth thinking about to save 1 talent point. Another possibility is, instead of putting those points in Surge of Light, I could also dump them into Darkness.

->Zephriel:
-I'm not what you call a hardcore player: I don't have the best gear always possible (for example, I never raided ICC25 heroic), yes gold is easy to come by so I usually have more than enough to buy the standard enchants and gems, and I often enjoy playing the game just to play it and not for the sole purpose of progression (my guild didn't fully clear ICC25 till about two months after it was released). Having said that, every time I log on, I usually get whispers from several people/guilds on my server asking me if I'm saved to this raid or that raid and, if I'm not, if I'd come heal for them. (As I've been on my server since the day it opened I know a lot of people there who happen to be in many of the top and oldest guilds.) Now we're not a competitive server, we're maybe a bit above average when it comes to progression so, again, this isn't hardcore stuff, but those invites tell me that even though I don't min/max, the fact that I'm a good, skilled, versatile healer and don't bring or cause unnecessary stress or pressure for the raid more than covers up for that. Please don't take this as an insult, as I know tone doesn't come across well in writing on easily sparked forums. Rather, I am just making you aware of my situation and that at a mid-range raiding level, min/maxing is not so important. And, personally, if I get kicked from a raid because I haven't min/maxed (which has maybe happened three or four times in the years I've played), I'm inclined to think that there is a big possibility that I probably wouldn't have enjoyed that raid (especially when I /who and find that the raid for OS25+1D is still in there 3 hours later when it should have taken no more than, MAYBE, an hour with a relaxed group or 20-30 minutes with the top guild in the server at the time when it was current content.)
-As for "Disc Archangel" being pointless: there are rightly two camps because there are two slightly different play-styles implied by the talents and I by no means am trying to say one is more right than the other. I certainly don't know enough theorycrafting to even pretend to say that. However, I don't think, for a moment, that Archangel, since the nerf to its mana return, is meant to be a mana regen talent as obviously as it was before (when it was 15%). I think it now serves more as another healing tool in the disc box - you keep evangelism at 5 stacks by smiting once in a while after you reach the initial 5 stack and activate Archangel when you need that extra healing boost... perhaps even complementing it with PW:B + PW:B Glyph for some emergency localized healing - that also happens to give back a little mana back - when you actually activate it; but let's be realistic, with the cost of maintaining it, the return is negligible and doesn't need to even be taken into account - while also saving a little mana in the long run - ever so slightly cheaper Penance. Mana management for disc, however, I've heard becomes a lot easier once you hit ilvl350 gear.

->Lohe:
-Lots of valid points. However, if you'll allow me a few corrections. Disc's main power is (supposed to be) shields and this is getting fixed somewhat with the coming changes to PW:S. Those points are now a must into shield strengthening talents - I understand why they're not now because the power of PW:S is, at the moment, quite underwhelming.
-Soul Warding: bubble spam is definitely not the point of disc anymore, however, I still think that at least 1 point here is worth it. Maybe even two if you're doing more raid healing. As far as tank healing goes, no, this isn't worth taking, you're absolutely right.
-SoS: now that it procs of GHeal as well, this is worth taking. Either way, as I said before, I personally enjoy being a tank healer more than a raid healer as a disc priest so this makes sense for me even if is still only required Heal. Merely makes more sense now with GHeal.
-As for your other points, I've already covered them above. Great informative post, however. Definitely!

I would like to remind everyone, however, that the initial point of this is my question as to how important/beneficial/mandatory Mental Agility is to the overall disc spec. I'm looking at it more as a filler now, more than a mandatory thing (like it was in Wrath when Bubble spam was viable but oh so boring).

Whew, long post.

[Siri]

No disrespect but what disc is "supposed to be" doesn't have any impact on reality, aside from rapture returning mana when shields break, they're pretty bad.

(This is in regards to live, not coming changes)

[Zandramas]

No disrespect but what disc is "supposed to be" doesn't have any impact on reality, aside from rapture returning mana when shields break, they're pretty bad.

(This is in regards to live, not coming changes)

Absolutely, 100% agree with you. As I don't have Cataclysm yet, however, and will probably only reach 85 by the time the announced changes go live, I'm more interested the discussion from the point of view of the coming changes.