8.34% Haste

[openair]

IMO haste vs mastery is rather simple. Haste is a raw hps increase, but other then renew and Heal, does nothing for your hpm. Mastery improves both hps and hpm. If you're running oom, stack mastery, if not stack haste.

[Nisala]

IMO haste vs mastery is rather simple. Haste is a raw hps increase, but other then renew and Heal, does nothing for your hpm. Mastery improves both hps and hpm. If you're running oom, stack mastery, if not stack haste.

If you're running oom, go for more spirit, not mastery. Haste has no alternative; and hps is not nearly as relevant as people like to believe.

[Ultima]

Precisely; in order to make use of EoLight, you need to heal. In order to heal, damage must happen. Thus, you have already responded to the damage, and as such EoLight provides no critically useful tool for us. It makes our healing spells worth a little bit more, but that healing is so spread out and lacking in any "mmph", that it can really never be compared to haste because they fulfil completely different roles. Haste fulfils a very important role of response-time, whereas EoLight adds a "nice" little extra healing on top of what we already do.

Not to mention that heal sniping still exists. Not to the degree as it was in Wrath, granted, but it's still there. There's nothing stopping a Druid's HoTs, a Paladins Fog Horn or a Chain Heal causing your lolEchoes to become over-healing. The same could be said for Haste in that you didn't need to cast so quickly as another heal landed right after, but I'd rather get someone stable ASAP. Not sure if I've contradicted myself there.

[openair]

If you're running oom, go for more spirit, not mastery. Haste has no alternative; and hps is not nearly as relevant as people like to believe.

GJ on missing the point. I said nothing about spirit vs mastery vs haste. And when i say hps im not talking about your position on meters... but your potential output. Haste increases your output at the cost of more mana (your output is only increased because you can cast more spells in the same period), with the exception of renew. Mastery, Int, Crit, and Sp all increase your output without having to cast any additional spells (less mana spent). Not to say haste, or spirit should be ignored either.

Another way to look at it, if you're running oom and are already having issues keeping ppl up, stacking spirit does little to fix your problems.

[Skarrd]

Not to mention that heal sniping still exists.

I'd say heal sniping is pretty rare in a solid 10 man. 25 mans sniping is obviously more common as assigning anywhere from 5-8 healers with no overlap even is just impossible. Three good players who know how eachother work can likely end up much more efficient. If you have hots (EoL counts) on a target and somebody else heals them then THEY overhealed, not you. It's their job to know that the person did not need that heal because it had a HoT going. As I said, this is much easier in 10 mans, but overall that problem lies with the other healer and not your own hots.

Of course, blaming people doesn't fix overhealing, but it does make people learn to not top people >90% off if they just got hit with a PoH.

That said I personally prefer haste. Though my experience is limited to do my current casual play, I'd like to think of myself as reasonably skilled as I was a lolhardcore throughout the majority of wrath. My main is a dps, but I can't seem to have a real discussion with my buddies (healers) about the usefulness of haste and efficiency. They all seem to disregard it fairly easily except for one. I've found haste to be incredibly useful in making heal+serenity healing significantly easier to maintain without dipping tanks scary low.


A bit off topic (because I just reminded myself of it), is there a list roundabouts this forum of HPM of the individual heals with things like specs/talents/IW considered for certainly gearlevels (like 346, 359, 372+)? I haven't dont a large amount of searching around yet but I didn't notice any sort of HPM charts around the stickies and whatnot. I'll just end up doing the math myself if one isn't around, but given that casual play I mentioned I am extra lazy and not getting around to it swiftly. I like to know the near-exact ratios of my spells to make decisions when things aren't going as planned. That's how good dps handle strange situations without doing baby dick damage and it's how I plan to adjust my healing to maximize efficiency as well as I possibly can. When you have half a second to make a decision, having HPM ratios fairly well memorized makes it go a lot smoother imo.

[Nisala]

GJ on missing the point. I said nothing about spirit vs mastery vs haste. And when i say hps im not talking about your position on meters... but your potential output. Haste increases your output at the cost of more mana (your output is only increased because you can cast more spells in the same period), with the exception of renew. Mastery, Int, Crit, and Sp all increase your output without having to cast any additional spells (less mana spent). Not to say haste, or spirit should be ignored either.

Another way to look at it, if you're running oom and are already having issues keeping ppl up, stacking spirit does little to fix your problems.

But we've already established that our mastery is, whilst good for hps, not actually very useful healing. Thus, your point about it's hps is irrelevant, and your point that people should stack mastery if they're having mana issues is either poorly worded, or misguided as per my previous point.

Haste provides more useful throughput. Spirit provides the best mana return, particularly since we enjoy 80% of it's benefit instead of the usual 50%. So in terms of secondary stats, I think it's pretty evident what one should do if one is having throughput issues or mana issues.

[Tavin]

It all comes down to how you play. I got mastery on all my items except ring and cloak (crit) and haste on 0, I'm sitting at 125 haste cause of enchants.

PS: Do people still use renew? I unbound that a while ago

[Nisala]

It all comes down to how you play. I got mastery on all my items except ring and cloak (crit) and haste on 0, I'm sitting at 125 haste cause of enchants.

PS: Do people still use renew? I unbound that a while ago

I'm curious about this comment... How does stacking mastery affect the way you play? Since it's an automatic thing that is tagged onto all healing spells, what makes you play differently, and also, if you would be kind enough to answer another question, what makes you stack mastery over haste?

[Tavin]

Stacking mastery seemed to be more effective and in my guild we healers werent allowed to pass on items so i ended up getting 0 haste items as they were more priod to sp's. However i will drop some mastery (as there isnt many options to not do so) when you get the 272 items.

Echoes of light is always my 2nd healing done and it seems to work as I'm topping the meters on 9/12 encounters and high ranked on worldoflogs when it comes to hps.

If you are stacking haste you want more spirit and you are more dependant on regen while i can spam non-stop from start till finish as my spells are rather slow, however they heal for more. If you got high haste it might be a better idea to also throw in those 2x flash heals for serendipity (spelling? the increase cast speed spell) and then a very fast PoH/Greater heal there after.

PS: I might agree that stacking haste seems better in 10 mans and definitely 5 mans, however i only raid 25 man+hardmodes so there I need the endurance of my regen and higher heals. I see very little point in stacking haste as you will go oom long before the combat ends. If you take conclave of winds for example and you already done it a few times on hardmode you would know that it's one of those fights where you dont need teh super fast casts. Stacking mastery for shields is way superior there.

PPS: Mastery effects Divine Aegis/the shield procced of crits and PoH.

Sure the playstyle might not change that much on some occasions, but it's a slight difference in what spells you might want to use at some points.

[redsunrising15]

Mastery is best because it adds free heals. That is all.