Fire mage BiS

[MagicSN]

Trinkets seem to drop decently often now. Got 2x Theralion's mirror on our first 25 man kill and another one last night. Got 2xBells on our first Atramedes kill, and since other casters don't seem to want it that badly, it went to mages.

Hmmm, seems to be different on our raid. Our warlock wants it, and recently our shadow also said he wants it. Luckily I beat the 27 of our lock on the roll with my 30 (I had rolled first, I guess he already thought he "had" it, and then rolled 3 less than me ;-) ). I also saw on armoury that most bells seem to go to mages. So is it "unusual" that our lock and shadow want the bell? (don't know very much about those two classes, but think to remember a lock list where the bell was also ranking as one of the best trinkets for locks, shortly after Volcano, if I remember right).

[SonyKnight]

locks are good with everything :P
but the crit on the bell is definitly the best for us fire mages. no doubt about that
priests shouldn;t be rolling on that one

[Aerowynn]

I see that three trinkets are being listed as BiS - volcano, theralion's, and the bell. Has anyone proven which two are actually best mathimatically? I actually have all three as well as the JC jeweled serpent and have been getting conflicting answers from rawr and simcraft as to which combination is best.

[MrExcelion]

I see that three trinkets are being listed as BiS - volcano, theralion's, and the bell. Has anyone proven which two are actually best mathimatically? I actually have all three as well as the JC jeweled serpent and have been getting conflicting answers from rawr and simcraft as to which combination is best.

Volcano is a given, and the general consensus here and on the WoW Mage forums appears to be Bell over Mirror. I've usually relied on Rawr also, but Trinket values have been wonky and constantly change with each new version. Rawr's 'Relative Stat Values' seem to be more accurate, but for some reason, this does not correlate to trinkets (and possibly other items). As of this last build, it had Jeweled Serpent as the #1 trinket, so I've taken it with a grain of salt. Saw that bug reported on EJ too. Note that using the Bell also gives you the ability to reforge it, and it has a 30% proc rate off criticals vs 10% off spells for Mirror. In 4.0.6, Bell will be changed to a 20% proc rate off all, whereas Mirror remains at 10 according to Wowhead PTR data. So it also has the better proc rate.

Take that information for what you will. I'm just relaying more on the general opinion I've observed, rather than providing what would be a more preferable mathematical explanation.

[Aerowynn]

Volcano is a given, and the general consensus here and on the WoW Mage forums appears to be Bell over Mirror. I've usually relied on Rawr also, but Trinket values have been wonky and constantly change with each new version. Rawr's 'Relative Stat Values' seem to be more accurate, but for some reason, this does not correlate to trinkets (and possibly other items). As of this last build, it had Jeweled Serpent as the #1 trinket, so I've taken it with a grain of salt. Saw that bug reported on EJ too. Note that using the Bell also gives you the ability to reforge it, and it has a 30% proc rate off criticals vs 10% off spells for Mirror. In 4.0.6, Bell will be changed to a 20% proc rate off all, whereas Mirror remains at 10 according to Wowhead PTR data. So it also has the better proc rate.

Take that information for what you will. I'm just relaying more on the general opinion I've observed, rather than providing what would be a more preferable mathematical explanation.

I have always relied on rawr as well in the past, but after seeing the same thing you did with the serpent, it has caused me to question it. Ki assumed that card/bell was the best combo, but when I did the math in the same fashion as bazzy on the previous page, the bell came in lower than the mirror. Simcraft came up with card/bell as the best combo. Each data point I get seems to add to the confusion

[Straif]

What do you guys think of th eHeart of Ignacious off Ascendant Council? I usually go by rawr but the modeling on this item isnt finihsed / is outdated and the math seems a little less straight forward. Any chane it ranks in the top 3?

[Aerowynn]

What do you guys think of th eHeart of Ignacious off Ascendant Council? I usually go by rawr but the modeling on this item isnt finihsed / is outdated and the math seems a little less straight forward. Any chane it ranks in the top 3?

This item isn't that great by my math. Because haste is our worst stat, the benefit isn't great. Doing quick math:

385 SP *2.54 = 977.9 (ignoring ramp up to 5 stack for simplicity, so actual is less)
1605 haste *1.3*20 sec / 120 cd = 347.5

Total value 1325.65 ...significantly less than the other trinkets talked about above.

Edit to add: if the addition was int instead of sp this would be a beast, likely second BiS behind DM card.

[Thelin]

I have always relied on rawr as well in the past, but after seeing the same thing you did with the serpent, it has caused me to question it. Ki assumed that card/bell was the best combo, but when I did the math in the same fashion as bazzy on the previous page, the bell came in lower than the mirror. Simcraft came up with card/bell as the best combo. Each data point I get seems to add to the confusion

Rawr is a bit funny, however i've seen where Mirror/Volcano comes in for one simulation, then mirror/bell in another. For me personally I'm currently running mirror/bell and with the mastery changes for mages soon the mirror will be a little bit more appealing.

[Difuid]

The JC trinket gives +314(285*1,05*1,05) Intellect and has a 1425 sp 20sec/2min on use effect, it gives two of the strongest stats for any caster and you ask why it is at the top ?

While the other trinkets grant Intellect or Spellpower never both and a random and not always coveted secondary stat, in one way or another.

The strength of Theralion's mirror is the 353(321*1,05*1,05) Intellect (in a raid environment), the mastery proc isn't that great.
While the +321 mastery of the Volcano card can be reforged, the fire damage part of the proc is affected by our specialization and spell power, and the int part equals to 470 Intellect with Bok/MotW and Wizardry taken into account and assuming you can always take advantage of it.

[methwow]

4set-legs,hand,chest,shoulder
power generator hood
Valions medalion??(after haste being a better stat then crit)-neck
haunt of flise-cloak
bracers of the bronze flight-bracers
belt of arcane storms-wasist
einhorns galoshes-feet
signet of the fifth circle-ring
signet of the high arcanist savor-ring
Darkmoon card-trinket
bell-trinket(f reforged to haste)
book of binding will-off hand
therasa booklight-wand
incineratus-main hand

this is going off haste being the better stat is only my thoughts

[Swaap]

The variety of gear at the 359 level is so awful that it doesn't take much effort to give a rough BiS list:

Head: Power Generator Hood (ODS)
Neck: Wildhammer/Dragonmaw rep neck
Shoulder: Tier
Cloak: Shadow of Dread (Nef)
Chest: Tier
Wrist: Bracers of the Dark Pool (BoT trash BoE)
Gloves: Tier
Belt: Conclave caster belt with Crit/Hit (failing that, Dreamless Belt from Tailoring)
Legs: Tier
Boots: Melodious Slippers (Valor Points)
Ring 1: Ring of High Arcanist Savor (World drop boe)
Ring 2: Conclave Crit/Hit ring (failing that, Band of Secret Names from Valor Points)
Weapon: Blade of the Witching hour (Valiona and Theralion)
Offhand: Book of something offhand from halfus wyrmbreaker
Wand: Theresa's Booklight (or something like that, BWD trash drop)
Trinket 1: Bell of Enraging Resonance
Trinket 2: Darkmoon: Volcanic (or Stump of Time or Theralion's Mirror)*

*I'd need to check how the hit works out to choose between the Darkmoon and Stump. Theralion's Mirror is (based on some guesstimate napkin math in another thread) slightly behind Darkmoon, but roughly the same stats, so could be used in place of it if you don't want to farm/shell out the cash for the darkmoon card.

Actually, the Valor Cloak >>> The Nefarian one. Hi.

[highmana]

4set-legs,hand,chest,shoulder
power generator hood
Valions medalion??(after haste being a better stat then crit)-neck
haunt of flise-cloak
bracers of the bronze flight-bracers
belt of arcane storms-wasist
einhorns galoshes-feet
signet of the fifth circle-ring
signet of the high arcanist savor-ring
Darkmoon card-trinket
bell-trinket(f reforged to haste)
book of binding will-off hand
therasa booklight-wand
incineratus-main hand

this is going off haste being the better stat is only my thoughts

funny how no one has mentioned the BoE sword from bwd yet

[Mudkiper]

funny how no one has mentioned the BoE sword from bwd yet

Isn't the Al'Akir sword bis?

[Arcsecant]

I'm curious to see what the BiS will be in 4.1 with dot crits not procing ignite.

[Soulstrike]

remember that conclave/al'akir will drop random stat neck and cloak which have crit/hit based stat next patch

[Eschatonin]

I was under assumption that BiS was the tier helm instead of Power Generator with Grips of the Failed Immortal, so as to have only one piece with mastery instead of two.

[takolin]

I was under assumption that BiS was the tier helm instead of Power Generator with Grips of the Failed Immortal, so as to have only one piece with mastery instead of two.

Sinestra helm is half a tier higher than other loot and thus the better piece.

[Eschatonin]

Sinestra helm is half a tier higher than other loot and thus the better piece.

If you looked at the first posts, you would notice that he's asking about normal mode loot.

[Video Games]

If you looked at the first posts, you would notice that he's asking about normal mode loot.

If you noticed, the op is over 3 months old.

[highmana]

Isn't the Al'Akir sword bis?

nobody has mentioned that sword either but isnt the BoE second?