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  1. #1
    Warchief Thaladhrun's Avatar
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    Some ideas to overhaul arcane and minor changes to fire

    Since Mages still could do with improvement, I've kept up most of these ideas. One of the specs is dull, the other very gear-dependent and a rollercoaster in how much fun it is, leaving just frost. So, I'm putting forward some suggestions (mostly a collation of mine and others) for arcane:

    -Modify PoM to be like Chakra, and put it on a 30 - 45 sec CD. See more below.

    -Mage Ward/Mana Shield. Give arcane a talent modification to expand the number of schools the former affects and reduce the latter's mana inefficiency. Possibly allow it to have an on-going effect, like TFT version. The downside is your mana evaporating.

    -Relatedly, remove Mana Shield from CD, and instead place an ICD on the Knockback effect. Increase/decrease as needed.

    -Bring back a buff effect like Pushing the Limits! It need not be haste, though that said it did make arcane a lot more interactive to have to try fit in an optimal spell sequence under the buff. See more below.

    -Some interrupt protection. Possibly a talent to replace Burning Soul, instead making Pushback protection (as with all casters), baseline. An idea was to let interrupts confer an 8 second long 10/20% DR for when locked out from arcane (particularly crippling for this spec) as a talent.

    -Cosmetic one, but give Arcane Blast a better/more obvious animation.

    This should give the arcane Mage more of a feel like a manipulator of time and space, as well as Nether energies. Right now, the talent tree is dull, poorly thought out and the execution similarly bad. There's little real control over mana other than just using Mana Gem and Evocation on CD. The ideas for PoM are just for example's sake. They could be anything. I just liked those in particular. Some people might say this is too much like Soul Burn, but that spell is a minor factor in the Warlock priority list, and with ISF mechanics being reworked, probably even smaller in the future. Arcane needs some spice anyway. Warlock priorities don't.

    For POM: A genuine Chakra effect.
    -Use it with Arcane Missiles (leaving the next 2 - 3 spells free), and you enter a mana conservation phase, whereby Arcane Missiles is affected by Arcane Blast and gives a haste buff, and Arcane Barrage gains a small mana-burning dot (if made baseline, this dot grows in power under this effect.) This will let it synergise with Dark Intent.

    -Use it in conjunction with Arcane Blast (firing off a ramped up, high damage one as a bonus), and you enter mana-burning rotations, whereby Arcane Barrage benefits from Arcane Blast (and also costs more in proportion with it) and rises in power as your mana depletes (so you use it after a breaking point of Arcane Blast spam.) In this phase, each Arcane Blast should add to cast time but rather than a 10% baseline ramp up it should be 15%, whereas the mana conservative phase should remain at 10% but reduce cast-time, possibly avoiding it being OTT in PVP.

    -It could also work with Arcane Barrage for mobility phases, protecting Evocation from pushback, lowering Arcane Barrage's CD by a sec and giving it and Arcane Missiles a damage buff proportional to movement when used, but conferring no big DPM or DPS advantages like the other two PoM effects. It would also let Arcane Missiles channel whilst moving. During this phase, Arcane Barrage could stun when it crits with a 10 sec ICD, probably replacing Improved Polymorph; otherwise sharing DR. It could also be used to extend the Arcane Blast debuff, like Fel Flame does Immolate.

    -Use it with Flame Orb (it gains the Gravity Well effect), and your Arcane Missiles and Arcane Barrage gain a volley effect, but you also become vulnerable to damage yourself and/or suffer a movement slow debuff. Should limit abuse in PVP.

    This should produce a marked difference for arcane between the burn phase and conservative rotations, and give it something to do on the move and when AoEing.

    If Evocation/Mage Armor/Frost Armor become too good, reduce mana returns to even the spec out. Alternatively, if Blizzard wants Mage Armor to be used, force it being up to enjoy the mana burning dot on Arcane Barrage and the siphoning effect on FO.

    For fire:


    -Either bring down Combustion's CD to 1 min and apply nerfs where appropriate elsewhere, or allow Fireball/FO/Scorch to lower its CD in an RNG manner, like Shadow Bolt/HoG does with Metamorphosis. A lot of the fun in fire surrounds this CD.

    -Put FO on a lower CD for fire so it factors in more rotationally. 30 - 45 sec.

    -Possibly give Blazing Speed a modification to Blink that leaves a trailing blaze, like the elementals in Twilight Highlands. Give it high enough damage and width so that anyone trying to immediately follow the Mage gets singed.

    -Give Fireball the old Pyroblast effect. It just looks weak, which isn't a surprise since it looks like the Imp's firebolt.

    -Restore some dispel protection to Living Bomb, and for Combustion. Too much of this spec's damage output can be reduced in this manner.

    -Change pyroblast to have 1.5 sec cast time, 6 sec cooldown (hot streak would still make it free and not cause a cooldown to start) and add it to Firestarter. (suggestion from Plumbum on Mage forum) If such a mechanic isn't implemented, let Hot Streaks stack to 2 - 3 (like FoF stacks to 2.)

    For frost:
    -I'd like one of those new water Elementals to replace our current one's model. A few more options for keeping the elemental alive would be cool but not a huge priority.
    -Frost has mostly been brought into balance, so I don't have much to say about it. It's still very dispel sensitive, but overall a good spec. I'd like for more casting rather than instant usage, but considering that that is an invitation to be interrupted, it can only come with a re-evaluation of interrupts and casting in the game.

    For all:
    -Make FM baseline.

    -With Time Warp being even more situational, it possibly needs to be made a lower level spell and a new 85 spell to replace it, obviously in the arcane school. Could even be FM, per someone else's suggestion, and that would have the effect of making it baseline. Let TW at least affect arcane Mages individually to make up for the loss of IV.

    -Not related to Mages specifically, but put Interrupts on DR. They're too effective for the number of them flying about right now not to share it. Something like Rift's location check only being enforced at the beginning of casts would also be cool, so melee can't just exploit the lack of realistic physics to run through to avoid spells being cast.

    Feel free to add/criticise. Just don't come with "lol stay lock then", since I could obviously do that, but that doesn't do a thing to make Mages any the more appealing a class. Numbers and so on could be tweaked as needed.


    Edit v8.
    Last edited by Thaladhrun; 2011-08-26 at 01:30 AM.
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  2. #2
    First of all, its good to actually find someone whos as passionate about arcane as myself, it seems we are a rare breed these days. Gotta agree we need fixing, I PvP only and I've found my self moving to frost, not really out of choice.

    Some really interesting ideas, some I agree with others not so much.

    The big one I agree with is something needs to be done to flame orb for arcane and the idea of using it as a mana return sounds really nice.
    Slow- I reckon this needs to stay the same, it works well, if we want a stun we can spec into impact
    Arcane Blast - First, it really does need a different animation or something to make it look a little cooler and it needs to affect other arcane spells again

    I dont have much time to reply as I'd like to but an idea I was thinking of a while ago was give arcane explosion a talent to cause a push back effect but add a cooldown to the push back effect, just like mana shield has atm

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Thaladhrun View Post
    -Either bring down Combustion's CD to 1 min and apply nerfs where appropriate elsewhere, or allow Fireball/FO/Scorch to lower its CD in an RNG manner, like Shadow Bolt/HoG does with Metamorphosis. A lot of the fun in fire surrounds this CD.
    -Put FO on a lower CD for fire so it factors in more rotationally. 30 - 45 sec.
    -Possibly give Blazing Speed a modification to Blink that leaves a trailing blaze, like the elementals in Twilight Highlands. Give it high enough damage and width so that anyone trying to immediately follow the Mage gets singed.
    -Give Fireball the old Pyroblast effect. It just looks weak, which isn't a surprise since it looks like the Imp's firebolt.
    I actually like all these changes. They'd not make fire mages buff in PVP, but solve a lot of issues with our current PvE problems. I don't see why combustion is on such a long cooldown. I fullheartedly agree with changing the fireball graphic. It's just so underwhelming.
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  4. #4
    I love the FM suggestion. This would be actually more than enough to buff both fire and frost pve, IMHO.

  5. #5
    Warchief Thaladhrun's Avatar
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    I liked that one too, actually.

    First of all, its good to actually find someone whos as passionate about arcane as myself, it seems we are a rare breed these days. Gotta agree we need fixing, I PvP only and I've found my self moving to frost, not really out of choice.
    Well most of these ideas aren't mine, aside from the fire ones. Just modifications and additions to other Mages' suggestions, mostly. But yeah, I love the spec, especially how it played in ICC. I love the concept behind the spec. It has loads of potential and merits a re-design. It's a lot to hope for Blizzard to do something with arcane this late, but I frankly do not understand how they expect Mages to be happy with it in its current state. Arcane is too static in some ways, and for a spec focused on control of time and space, it's absurd. When I see how they overhauled holy, retribution or destruction, or even frost and fire, I feel pretty shafted when playing arcane. It was the spec that most needed a re-evaluation. The advantage with giving Arcane Barrage a mana-burning DoT and FO a mana siphoning effect is reducing dependence on Evocation, and possibly Mage Armor, as you can regain mana on the move then. If it needs to be nerfed to account for the mana gains ensuing, so be it, I really don't like the mechanic anyway, and it's not like you wouldn't have to plan FO usage to optimise mana returns. In fact, if they went ahead with the Chakra like effect, the Mage could do a -lot- more to control their mana flow. Right now, fire does more than arcane to manage mana, unless one considers evocating more often very interesting.

    If they want to retain reliance on Mage Armor, they could just add a mana-burning effect to FO and Arcane Barrage provided the Mage had Mage Armor up, like fire using free, mobile Scorches with Molten Armor up.

    ---------- Post added 2011-01-07 at 05:46 PM ----------

    Bump for more feedback.
    Last edited by Thaladhrun; 2011-01-07 at 03:39 PM.
    Start trying to work out who deserves what, and before long you’ll spend the rest of your days weeping for each and every person in the world.

  6. #6
    These changes would definitely make arcane an incredibly interesting spec to play. I'm in the same boat as you. Have a lock but wanna get back into Mage again. Not enough hours in my days to have alts sadly. I'd recommend posting this to the damage dealing forums over at worldofwarcraft.com. It would be nice for bliss to see this. I just can't believe cata went live with arcane this boring.

  7. #7
    Warchief Thaladhrun's Avatar
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    Good idea, I'll do that. Only thing is I can't post on the US forum, which is the one I think Blizzard monitors. :P If someone wants to copy/paste it there though, that'd be great.

    Plus an Arcane Barrage infused bump!
    Start trying to work out who deserves what, and before long you’ll spend the rest of your days weeping for each and every person in the world.

  8. #8
    I totally agree, Arcane needs some serious work and I like your suggestions, and I do also think combustion should be a 1 minute cooldown.

  9. #9
    Warchief Thaladhrun's Avatar
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    By all means then, pass them along to the US damage dealing forum.
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  10. #10
    Warchief Thaladhrun's Avatar
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    Bumpity bump.
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  11. #11
    Two significant and relatively simple changes that would add a great deal of viability to Arcane:

    A talented effect, similar to Firestarter in the Fire tree, that allows Arcane Blast to be cast while moving. It could be kept thematic and only function if Mage Armor is in use.

    The Arcane Flows talent should change the nature of Evocation and perhaps Arcane Power. The talent should allow Evocation to function for an Arcane Mage in a similar manner to Innervate, rendering it non-channeled and making movement possible. Not huge, but certainly helpful, would be to allow Arcane Power to provide pushback protection similar to Icy Veins.

  12. #12
    Warchief Thaladhrun's Avatar
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    Those wouldn't be bad changes, either. They'd certainly be a start. Either Arcane Blast or AM would be interesting to cast on the move. For fire, this is still my favourite idea:

    -Change pyroblast to have 1.5 sec cast time, 6 sec cooldown (hot streak would still make it free and not cause a cooldown to start) and add it to Firestarter.
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  13. #13
    some of the stuff sounds pretty good tho i dont think slow should be changed

  14. #14
    Warchief Thaladhrun's Avatar
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    Eh, that one was just a small idea. What I really want to see is the Chakra like effect adopted for arcane. The spec needs an overhaul, and I think that'd be the right sort. Can anyone post this on the US damage dealing forum by the way? As an EU player I can't post there. Blizzard doesn't pay much heed to the EU forum.
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  15. #15
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    Wouldent it be also insanely cool if they made that fire orb a nether vortex for arcane, that insted of damage dealing, will suck up all nearby targets to it, and can be casted like shadowfury ? (target the place u want to AE)

    my 2 cents

    cool ideas btw
    BoomShakalaka

  16. #16
    Warchief Thaladhrun's Avatar
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    Seeing how tepid this patch has been for Mages, bump!
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  17. #17
    Herald of the Titans Baabinator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thaladhrun View Post
    Those wouldn't be bad changes, either. They'd certainly be a start. Either Arcane Blast or AM would be interesting to cast on the move. For fire, this is still my favourite idea:

    -Change pyroblast to have 1.5 sec cast time, 6 sec cooldown (hot streak would still make it free and not cause a cooldown to start) and add it to Firestarter.
    You realize Pyroblast is the hardest hitting nuke a Fire Mage has to offer?

    And this kinda ruins the "YEAH 2 CRITS IN A ROW" moment tbh
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  18. #18
    Warchief Thaladhrun's Avatar
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    I'm well aware. The CD is just an example in terms of numbers. And the two crits in a row thing is fun and would still work as stated in the parenthesis but in a way that'd iron out the RNG it suffers from.
    Start trying to work out who deserves what, and before long you’ll spend the rest of your days weeping for each and every person in the world.

  19. #19
    -Remove Mana Shield from CD, and instead place an ICD on the Knockback effect.
    Dear God, please. I see no point at all in giving a shield that can take literally NO damage, while draining our mana, a CD.

  20. #20
    I Like most of the changes you suggest but also i would love to see a sound effect added to Arcane Blast you know like a Sonic Boom sound so even if you didnt see the tiny animation it has now you would know every time it was cast might be annoying but i would like it.
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