Why "Let them die" Isn't An Acceptable Answer

[Clouce]

Self correcting aggro is self correcting. And DPS means Don't Pull Shit!

Basically if your to stupid to learn gtfo the bad shit, I'm not letting you die out of spite I'm doing it because I don't have enough mana to out heal incompetence, this isn't WoTLK any more. They should be lucky I have the patience to not kick them, assuming I don't. Although this is the reason I only group with guild even before cata.

[Tsjb]

Healing isnt hard, this is a myth built up because its not necessarily as fun for other players so they play DPS. I healed raids in BC, Its not hard if you have a Grid or healbot, actually if anything its easier than dps. Tanking is not hard, I have this on authority from tanks I know. This is an excuse to feel superior or elite. Every class has a role to play with just as much to pay attention to. All healers do is click a little window displaying health and debuffs.

How exactly is DPS'ing in a heroic (which is what this thread is about) harder than healing?

When I go offspec shadow for heroics or rarely for a raid, I laugh at just how easy it is, I have a basic spell priority list which is just the same over and over and over for a 3 minute fight, and I have to move from fire (which tanks and healers also have to do). Occasionally I am asked to kill something that isn't the boss, oh noes!

[Alfador]

The fact of the matter is that you pretty much NEED a guild to do instances with, atleast you don't get abused/have someone spam "AGGRO" or "SHIT TANK LOL!" the most annoying thing is when you have 2 or 3 people from the same guild in your group they gang up on you but not so much when its 4 players, thats when I have the best instance runs - SHOCK HORROR!

This is entirely false. I've had tons of good pugs. The only way to guarantee a good group is a guild group, but it isn't the only way to get one, not by a long shot.

[erotix]

But it makes me feel better when they die. The lesson may be lost on them, but I feel warm and fuzzy as I squat on their face.

i like this message, its really frustrating when you see someone standing in something, so letting em die saves mana and also makes facesquatting possible

[Nexxia]

How exactly is DPS'ing in a heroic (which is what this thread is about) harder than healing?

My reply was generalized because the thread has gone off topic, I wasnt saying dps was harder, I was saying none are harder than another, you have cds to watch move out of things dodge things, try and heal a boss down or tank it down, or trash for that matter, different classes are merely suited to different personality types). Whos ccing for you? Mob breaks loose and someone stuns it to keep it from killing you until the tank can get it? hmmmm.....

[Carighan]

But it makes me feel better when they die.

Yeah that's my main reason, too.

[cococabana]

Exactly. Are you (as a healer) so smart that you always know the damage source of 5 ppl? Sometimes it is unavoidable AoE, sometimes it is a tank breaking CC, sometimes letting just 1 member die out of spite you won't have the dps to kill a boss.

Yes. I am. It's not hard to tell the difference between an unavoidable aoe, and an avoidable one. (Hint: not everyone in the group gets hit by the avoidable one.) Also, it's not hard to spot someone in the fire. It's not hard to spot who has aggro. After you've healed the instance once or twice, you know what is acceptable damage, and what isn't.

Besides that, even if I attempted to heal you through it, how the hell am i supposed to heal you through something that does 25-30k damage per second, that you don't even make an attempt to get out of? Sorry, but sometimes as a healer you have to make the executive decision to let someone die so you can keep the rest of the group alive. It is more mana and time efficient to res after combat than it is to try to keep someone alive standing in fire.

As for not having the dps to down the bosses, I've found that it's a hell of a lot easier to kill a dungeon boss with 1 tank, 1-2 dps, 1 healer than it is with 0 tanks, 0 dps, and 0 healers. For some odd reason, it just goes down so much faster. Can't quite put my finger on it........

[Abandon]

Healing isnt hard, this is a myth built up because its not necessarily as fun for other players so they play DPS. I healed raids in BC, Its not hard if you have a Grid or healbot, actually if anything its easier than dps. Tanking is not hard, I have this on authority from tanks I know. This is an excuse to feel superior or elite. Every class has a role to play with just as much to pay attention to. All healers do is click a little window displaying health and debuffs.

If you healed four years ago I am sure you have a lot of relevant knowledge of what healing is currently like.

None of the rolls in the game are hard, however DPS is by far the easiest. I heal and DPS on my Priest in random heroics and as a DPS I need to worry about my damage and avoiding damage. As a healer I need to worry about the tank, avoiding damage, the group, mana efficency, and fixing any mistake any other member of the group makes, because making a mistake almost always means damage, and damage is my responsibility.

Now that mana actually matters, there are two main points for healing or not healing someone who refuses to move from avoidable damage. On the "let them die" side, if they are constantly taking damage and need constant healing it puts a lot more pressure on your mana to keep both them and the tank healed up from the constant damage, as well as the rest of the group. It may be easier to let them die and have the mana and time to heal the rest of the group to kill the boss. On the other hand, if the damage is high enough on the group the third DPS will need to be alive in order to DPS the boss down before you run out of mana. Unfortunately if they are taking avoidable damage they are making the window of time they have to kill the boss before I go OOM a lot smaller.

I'll let a DPS die, but only if I believe keeping them alive would cause other people to die.

[sharpy]

But it makes me feel better when they die. The lesson may be lost on them, but I feel warm and fuzzy as I squat on their face.

This most of the time its the tank and they always try to blame the healer.
*Edit* Just to clarify my post i mean standing in the fire because hay they should be getting healed anyhow right? or just letting mobs run around free hitting anything.. And i do leave after i ask kindly for the problem to be fixed and they refuse to do it.

[Siton]

I am so tired of that bullcrap, if i ever watch healers letting someone die i talk to the tank and misdirect something up the healer's ass. That's just how huntards roll.

[thundercles]

As a healer, I must be aware of not only my positioning and surroundings but also those of every other member of my group.
This alone makes the job of healing much more complicated than the DPS who only has to watch what HE's doing and can effectively ignore everyone else in his group.

Also healing in BC is no comparison to healing in Cata.

[frostsomething]

As a healer, I don't generally let people die unless it's terribly terribly terrible. People who are so quick to let dps die cause they take an extra second to move out of the fire each time are pretty rude IMO and I'm glad I don't have to do instances with them.

That said, Cata heroics have actually made healing hard if dps are playing stupidly. If we don't have CC in the group and a melee keeps getting threat on some mobs because they feral charge/heroic leap/etc and start cleaving/AEing their heart out, the simple answer is I'm not going to put the tank in ANY amount of risk to make up for your bad play. You'll probably get your rejuv, which isn't going to save you if you keep aggro on stuff, but I'm not going to take a lot of time to heal you up while the tank's hp drops. Not when some mobs in heroics can hit a tank for over one third of their hp in one attack. Chances are I can save you safely, but by expecting heals after repeatedly pulling aggro you're basically putting the whole group at risk. Do not approve.

The above only applies to chronic bad play. If someone steals aggro or doesn't run out of some random AE or whatever, fine. I'm not expecting people to know every mob in every heroic. If it keeps up time after time though, you had better hope the tank is near 100%.

I suspect in Cata, as opposed to Wrath, it's probably a lot more effective a teaching tool when a Rejuv is the only heal on a dps at 50% and I'm busy healing the tank. It is if they're aware it was their fault they got into that situation, anyway...

[Tsjb]

Whos ccing for you? Mob breaks loose and someone stuns it to keep it from killing you until the tank can get it? hmmmm.....

I CC all the time on my Holy Priest and my alt Resto Shaman, I have also seen RDruids CCing but thats a bit rarer, I also often stun mobs by coming out of Chakra and Chastising them, I do this mainly on healer mobs if a DPS doesn't seem to be kicking. Even Bear Druids are able to CC in some heroics (again, fairly rare), and most good tanks will help to stun or interrupt.

[Lansow]

Healing isnt hard, this is a myth built up because its not necessarily as fun for other players so they play DPS. I healed raids in BC, Its not hard if you have a Grid or healbot, actually if anything its easier than dps. Tanking is not hard, I have this on authority from tanks I know. This is an excuse to feel superior or elite. Every class has a role to play with just as much to pay attention to. All healers do is click a little window displaying health and debuffs.

You're flat out wrong about healing. Healers have to pay attention to the same mechanics as everyone else in the fight, they need to manage their cooldowns and abilities while watching what everyone else is doing and choosing the correct ability to help manage their resource.

Healing is immeasurably more difficult than DPS.

As for tanking, no role in this game is truly "difficult", but effective tanking requires a great deal of skill and knowledge. It requires many split second decisions and predictive positioning. If it wasn't more difficult than DPS, don't you think there'd be more people doing it?

Everything about your post is wrong. Flat out wrong.

[Thatwsntmilk]

The healer is choosing to not do his job, so why should anyone else bother?

It is definitely not a healers job to spam-heal DPS while they stand in the fire pressing their one button repeatedly.

[thundercles]

People tend to jump to one extreme or the other in threads like this.

I'd bet that MOST healers aren't actually allowing people to die just because they make a few mistakes or just for the lulz.
It's more likely that we aren't just arbitrarily deciding to let people die, but coming to that decision after a bit of time spent in the dungeon watching a person consistently fuck up.

Folks really ought to try understanding that before making these response threads that accuse every single healer in the game of being some kind of asshole that just wants to watch you suffer.

[Danuru]

Sometimes letting them die is the one and only option you have... Idiot dps trying to rush and pulling mobs before the group can finish with the current group... Keeping them constantly in combat an unable to be vote-kicked... if you let them die... you can leave combat, and they can be votekicked... For me, letting them die solves more problems than it creates. Plus it is quite satisfying.

[luftwaffles]

If stupid dps is standing in fire, then let nature take its course, the explain what happened without being a prick.

HOWEVER, don't go out of your way to set up situations where he will die just to 'teach him a lesson.' that's ignorant and it won't teach them shit, since it's an artificially created senario. It might be fun, but it's just creating more shitty players who try to screw people out of sheer rage.

[Shamslam]

Yea, because letting that Frost DK who does nothing but spam HB die really teaches him to stop HB spam...at least some of them.

Actually kind of funny, me and my tank friend got into this Tolvir and I HB spammed on the first pack and realized my friend couldn't handle it because I pulled aggro, so I stopped. The healer bitched for the next 5 minutes and refused to heal me at all even though I never pulled aggro again. So my druid tank friend would shift out of bear form constantly to throw hots on me which just pissed the healer off more. He even would pop out to heal me when the first boss would run off to throw people.

I guess moral of the story is some of us aren't braindead like healers like to think. Not healing me at all after I mess up once isn't teaching me a lesson; it's just telling me you're 10 years old.

[natrii]

My simple rule is this, If you are taking avoidable damage. I will heal you to a point where I decide that you are a hazard to the rest of the group via my mana pool or cast times.

In a heroics and Raid

1. Tank tanking heavy damage
2. Tank taking light damage dps standing in fire...me <75% mana heal DPS
3. Tank Taking Heavy damage DPS standing in fire...dead dps
4. Tank taking light damage me >50% mana...dead dps
5 . Tank taking normal damage multiple DPS in fire, look to recount Higher the dps more likely to get a heal unless tank is in trouble... lowest dps...more than likely dead.
6. Tank taking Any damage heavy or light, dps in fire, and for some reason I'm taking damage. DPS is getting ignored. Me and the tank are more important.