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  1. #221
    I am Murloc! Balduvian's Avatar
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    Woaw, that was totally necessary. I agree, you really had a reason to call me a nerd.

    Anyway. White hit damage is terribly low in PvP and with PvP gear, plus the fact that you don't have enough uptime to make really great use of SR. It's a waste of CP unless used in one of the 3 situations I've mentioned before.

    About the addon, there are shitloads of useful addons. I'm not saying it's not useful, but I just listed the ones I personally use/have used that have proven me to be useful, and ones that are used by other high-rated Ferals. Just sayin'.
    Last edited by Balduvian; 2011-08-15 at 09:20 PM.

  2. #222
    Im therepairman

    ---------- Post added 2011-08-15 at 05:44 PM ----------

    Higher rated feral i use savage roar so w/e

  3. #223
    SR is used while rooted or out of reach while in need of an instant procc, most commonly used while going after a mage or warlock, the damage increase is neglectable as it's dispellable by druids hunters and rogues, so if you need an instant and can't get a finisher off, SR is there just for that situation.

  4. #224
    How does armor stack with Resilience and Natural Reaction? I'm wondering if in full 371 gear without Thick Hide would I still have the physical damage reduction capped? (also what is the cap?).

    My current spec has Thick Hide and I like it because it helps survival against other melee but I'm wondering if I really need it.

  5. #225
    I am Murloc! Balduvian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ultimar235 View Post
    How does armor stack with Resilience and Natural Reaction? I'm wondering if in full 371 gear without Thick Hide would I still have the physical damage reduction capped? (also what is the cap?).

    My current spec has Thick Hide and I like it because it helps survival against other melee but I'm wondering if I really need it.
    As far as I know, NR isn't affected by armor at all. If you have 50% melee damage reduction from armor, you'll have an additional 18% from NR on top of that. I'm not so sure about how it goes with Resilience, however.

    There's no such things as a cap on damage-reduction. You can get as much as you want untill the gear just doesn't allow you anymore. The "hardcap" would be 100%, but then again, you're not going to get anywhere close to that due to the fact that even the best gear possible won't give you that much.

    Anyway, I personally don't like Thick Hide. Some Ferals use it but tbh, those are rare nowadays. Just try without it for a while and see for yourself what the differences are. In my opinion it's not worth it since the damage reduction against melee when sitting in Bear Form is already ridiculously high, and Thick Hide in Cat Form is neglectable. (done the math on that already a few times before in this topic).

  6. #226
    May consider adding something on Rebirth glyph for RBGs. It's an amazing "here's a healer at full hp without a 45s wait" ability.

  7. #227
    Aprox 48% vs 64% bear form DR vs melee for non thick hide vs thick hide in an average pvp set, apart from cat/caster DR.

    It's a decent chunk on top of other mitigation, for me personally it outweighs the other options. I take 2/3 usually, sometimes sacrifice 1 out of furor for 3/3. That's alongside primal madness and fury swipes out of offence.

  8. #228
    Immortal Duilliath's Avatar
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    Thing is.... Ferals don't have a lot of issues with melee as is. I personally prefer 2 points in Fury Swipes for more pressure. Could even see Perseverance over Thick Hide if you want to be more defensive.

  9. #229
    Quote Originally Posted by Balduvian View Post
    There's no such things as a cap on damage-reduction. You can get as much as you want untill the gear just doesn't allow you anymore. The "hardcap" would be 100%, but then again, you're not going to get anywhere close to that due to the fact that even the best gear possible won't give you that much.
    Not really up on my feral (or general armor) theorycrafting, but that isn't really true. As far as i know, physical damage reduction through armor caps out at 75%. Of course, with the way diminishing returns works, it is (i believe) completely impossible to actually reach that 75% cap. You might be able to get REALLY close with full + armor enchants and a + armor use / proc trinket or two, but you will never actually hit the full 75% physical damage reduction.

    And yeah, damage reduction through resilience could potentially cap out at 100%, but you would never in a million years be able to actually aquire enough resiliece to get there.

  10. #230
    I am Murloc! Balduvian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Duilliath View Post
    Thing is.... Ferals don't have a lot of issues with melee as is.
    This pretty much. Thick Hide adds quite a lot of extra survivability against melee, but it's not like we need it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Surfd View Post
    Not really up on my feral (or general armor) theorycrafting, but that isn't really true. As far as i know, physical damage reduction through armor caps out at 75%.

    And yeah, damage reduction through resilience could potentially cap out at 100%, but you would never in a million years be able to actually aquire enough resiliece to get there.
    Sure there's a soft-cap on it, like on anything. But obviously the hardcap for damage reduction would be 100%. (100% is kinda the cap for everything, if you get my point). Anyway, the point is that you won't ever get anywhere close to that indeed. Was basically just pointing out that he shouldn't worry about a "cap" on damage reduction.
    Last edited by Balduvian; 2011-09-05 at 08:14 AM.

  11. #231
    Bloodsail Admiral Torne's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Balduvian View Post
    This pretty much. Thick Hide adds quite a lot of extra survivability against melee, but it's not like we need it.



    Sure there's a soft-cap on it, like on anything. But obviously the hardcap for damage reduction would be 100%. (100% is kinda the cap for everything, if you get my point). Anyway, the point is that you won't ever get anywhere close to that indeed. Was basically just pointing out that he shouldn't worry about a "cap" on damage reduction.

    The extra reduction nad more importantly the crit chance reduction is still very useful in bgs when getting trained (flag carrying etc), though I admit that in arenas, you will not need it most of the time. Right now I play with both NR and Thick Hide.
    And there is no soft cap on resilience, it hard caps at about 9800 I think with 100% damage reduction, not that anyone can ever come even close to that.
    In the end the winner is still the last man standing.

  12. #232
    Immortal Duilliath's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Torne View Post
    nad more importantly the crit chance reduction is still very useful in bgs when getting trained
    I'd like to point out, though you probably know this, that Thick Hide does not reduce spell crit. Only melee crits.

    Additionally, I am quite firmly of the opinion that Ferals shouldn't be flag carrying for any length of time. (I say ruefully, as I lost count of the number of flags I carried in Vanilla WSG...)

  13. #233
    I am Murloc! Balduvian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Torne View Post
    The extra reduction nad more importantly the crit chance reduction is still very useful in bgs when getting trained (flag carrying etc), though I admit that in arenas, you will not need it most of the time.
    Then again, you should let a Prot Warrior/Blood DK do the flagcarrying though. Ferals are fine for Random BG's or as a backup FC, but other then that they're quite far behind on those 2.

    And as Duilliath stated (and I'm not sure wether you were trying to say this but anyway..) Thick Hide only reduces melee crit, not spell crit.

  14. #234
    So I've been pvping on my Druid for about 3 weeks and I'm loving Kitty..... I'm having a hard time figuring out the best spec for me though. This is what I've come up with (it wont let me post the link) wowhead.com/talent#0ZfrMfRurzd0zMcu:q0Mric . I've realised that I need to use shred as filler as much as possible but in arena its seems to be almost impossible to get more than a couple off. Switching to bear form when necessary is coming to me but still needs work... I've only done 2v2 with dableing in 3s but that has proven to be fail with hunter/feral/ret. Any input is appreciated.

  15. #235
    Bloodsail Admiral Torne's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Balduvian View Post
    Then again, you should let a Prot Warrior/Blood DK do the flagcarrying though. Ferals are fine for Random BG's or as a backup FC, but other then that they're quite far behind on those 2.

    And as Duilliath stated (and I'm not sure wether you were trying to say this but anyway..) Thick Hide only reduces melee crit, not spell crit.
    good to know, don´t have much experience with rated BGs.
    Question for high rated ferals, I heard from a couple of people that getting exp capped might be actually useful for 2s and 3s arena, can anyone confirm this? I got the exp neck from TB today and not sure if I should just throw it away.
    In the end the winner is still the last man standing.

  16. #236
    Immortal Duilliath's Avatar
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    To be honest, I really don't see the point. Shred can't be dodged or parried and as a matter of common sense you should always be behind your target anyway. It's not an awful stat, but I can't see myself give up Mastery for it. Especially not when you'd be replacing a pure mastery item (necklace) for an expertise one. It'd probably be an upgrade either way over a Vicious necklace, but if you already got the ruthless one I wouldn't bother.

  17. #237
    Great guide man! Is it okay if I use some of the trinket names and stuff for a youtube feral guide?

  18. #238
    I am Murloc! Balduvian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Torne View Post
    good to know, don´t have much experience with rated BGs.
    Question for high rated ferals, I heard from a couple of people that getting exp capped might be actually useful for 2s and 3s arena, can anyone confirm this? I got the exp neck from TB today and not sure if I should just throw it away.
    You don't have a whole lot of tools that are affected by Expertise, and since the Expertise actually requires quite a lot of reforging, you'll lose A LOT of Mastery.

    Quote Originally Posted by Taurheim View Post
    Great guide man! Is it okay if I use some of the trinket names and stuff for a youtube feral guide?
    Not sure what you mean there. The trinket names? Sure you can use them.

    Quote Originally Posted by TwilightG35 View Post
    So I've been pvping on my Druid for about 3 weeks and I'm loving Kitty..... I'm having a hard time figuring out the best spec for me though. This is what I've come up with (it wont let me post the link) wowhead.com/talent#0ZfrMfRurzd0zMcu:q0Mric . I've realised that I need to use shred as filler as much as possible but in arena its seems to be almost impossible to get more than a couple off. Switching to bear form when necessary is coming to me but still needs work... I've only done 2v2 with dableing in 3s but that has proven to be fail with hunter/feral/ret. Any input is appreciated.


    As for your spec, I'd most certainly drop at least 1 point from Thick Hide and get NR instead. (As stated a couple of times before, Thick Hide only helps vs. Melee, and even then, the bonus you get against melee when in cat-form really isn't that big.)

    You can safely run with it if you want though, but make sure to get 2/2 NR too.

    Furthermore, Rend and Tear is a 100% must-have. Shred actually isn't so hard to use (unless the opponent stands with his ass in to the wall), so you can't really drop this talent. On average games, I'm pretty certain you can use Shred at least as much as you can/will use Mangle.

    Then you got 2 points in Perseverance. You can leave them there just fine, but I'd personally prefer Primal Madness.

    This is your spec with the above mentioned adjustments
    Last edited by Balduvian; 2011-09-08 at 07:53 AM.

  19. #239
    Immortal Duilliath's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Balduvian View Post
    Furthermore, Rend and Tear is a 100% must-have. Shred actually isn't so hard to use (unless the opponent stands with his ass in to the wall), so you can't really drop this talent. On average games, I'm pretty certain you can use Shred at least as much as you can/will use Mangle.
    As a matter of fact, you can even use Shred when people have their back to the wall in a lot of cases due to the way the catform model works. Simply stand in front of them, then move forward and your head will be sticking out of their back allowing you to shred. There's a few spots where you can't, but in a couple of arenas it's nearly impossible to position yourself in such a way that you can't be shredded. I've surprised a few people this way.

    If that actually doesn't work, you can try shredding from the side.

  20. #240
    I am Murloc! Balduvian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Duilliath View Post
    As a matter of fact, you can even use Shred when people have their back to the wall in a lot of cases due to the way the catform model works. Simply stand in front of them, then move forward and your head will be sticking out of their back allowing you to shred. There's a few spots where you can't, but in a couple of arenas it's nearly impossible to position yourself in such a way that you can't be shredded. I've surprised a few people this way.

    If that actually doesn't work, you can try shredding from the side.
    Well yea, it's mostly the corner in Nagrand arena that counters Shred so pathetically.

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