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  1. #21
    Legendary! gherkin's Avatar
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    My thoughts on your post:
    Everything:
    ISF is bad and needs to get gone.

    Destruction:
    Chaos bolt is in need of a buff, but how much of a buff is debatable due to pvp.
    Destruction PVP is really hurt by high resilience targets. Yes, it's intended but it seems higher for Destruction that other targets and I don't quite understand it.
    Shadow Damage is fine, its the reason our mastery is 1.25% and not 1.0% per point.
    Immolate does not need dispel protection.

    Demo:
    Agree with everything except a rotational MC. That's why the spec is interesting.

    Affliction:
    I disagree with everything except demon soul. It should apply to all existing dots, but can't because its a self buff and not a target debuff. Overall the damage difference between someone paying attention and someone not paying attention is minimal, providing you refresh BOA during the buff. This is because Corruption is constantly refreshed (for an effective duration of ~20s) and UA is recast at least once during and could be extended with Fel Flame near the end.

    Pets:
    They're fine, give us a new model (or selectable model) and allow us to mute them globally.

    General:
    These are ridiculous - either op or a waste of time from a development point of view.

    R.I.P. YARG

  2. #22
    The Lightbringer Zathrendar's Avatar
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    Immolate does not need dispel protection.
    What makes you think so?

    They're fine, give us a new model (or selectable model) and allow us to mute them globally.
    The split between offensive and defensive dispels sure as hell isn't fine (else make the case why it was needed), and the Succubus's poor Demon Soul, and general fall in Seduction's utility arguably needs re-consideration. The fact that demo and affli benefit more from her than their flagship pets also suggests that currently they are lacking.

    General:
    These are ridiculous - either op or a waste of time from a development point of view.
    What is or isn't a "waste" of development time is up to the developers, and it being "OP" is largely a matter of opinion, particularly in the case of DT (not having this spell up can be a matter of life and death) and the stunbreaker. I hardly see why it is "OP" when functionally Improved Succubus used to have this effect anyway. The Soul Link one in particular is a quality of life issue that merits an examination.
    Last edited by Zathrendar; 2011-01-10 at 05:34 PM.
    Start trying to work out who deserves what, and before long you’ll spend the rest of your days weeping for each and every person in the world.

  3. #23
    Agree with most of them.
    Regaining in combat shards, well, we do have a way to get shards back in some combats, Drain Soul...
    Got a Warlock as a main, a Druid and a DK at 80 as alts and lvling a Rogue..

    "You are only as good player, as the guild you are into"

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Thaladhrun View Post
    The fact that demo and affli benefit more from her than their flagship pets also suggests that currently they are lacking.
    Personally, I'd rather have every pet have a use rather than have their be only 3 usable pets since they're the "flagship pets".

    Right now we have:
    Voidwalker: Soloing/Elite Killing (least useful by far, but that's okay)
    Felhunter: Affliction PvP
    Felguard: Demo PvP, Demo PvE on AOE fights
    Succubus: Afflic PvE, Demo PvE on Single Target
    Imp: Destro

    Seems okay to me.

  5. #25
    I would rather FH and succy be dead even and get to choose. LoP glyph just makes her retarded.

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by andromalia View Post
    I would rather FH and succy be dead even and get to choose. LoP glyph just makes her retarded.
    Yeah, admittedly I can understand Afflic locks wanting to use Felpuppy for PvE, especially since it seems like that's how Blizzard wanted it.

    Demo I'm a little less understanding about though, since Felguard is stil awesome AOE.

  7. #27
    Legendary! gherkin's Avatar
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    @Thaladhrun
    Conglagrate is balanced based on being able to dispel Immolate. You don't have to cast either of them, just spam Shadow Bolt. It's not like you have a crap ton of mastery in PVP gear. So to me, this argument isn't about dispel protection it's about "I want to use fire spells in pvp but can't because of dispel and incinerate's high reliance on Immolate to be worth casting". CC the dispeller? I dont know what the solution is but it's not dispel protection.

    Splitting dispels means that you actually use the imp in PVP and have a choice between Felhunter and others as Affliction. Also, if you're being dispelled a lot then Succubus Demon Soul is actually pretty powerful.

    I haven't noticed a fall in Seduction's utility, can you explain?


    You asked for targetable Teleport - this is basically Heroic Leap and as someone with a Warrior I don't want this on my warlock. Remove the Warlock is a good idea, however.
    SL auto on means it can't be turned off. This is how auras work. Can you click off Devotion aura? the 3% damage buff from Arcane Mages? You cant because its how they made the game, and (since others ask for it too) continually requesting it is a waste of their time. It would be the only beneficial aura in the game you would want to turn off sometimes.
    I think Whiplash needs a 2s disorient, not a stunbreaker.
    I agree with the glyph being baseline, but at what cost?
    Interrupt protection would be nice, but since a lot of our damage can continue after we've been interrupted I think blizzard would be reluctant to give us this.

    R.I.P. YARG

  8. #28
    The Lightbringer Zathrendar's Avatar
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    Conglagrate is balanced based on being able to dispel Immolate. You don't have to cast either of them, just spam Shadow Bolt. It's not like you have a crap ton of mastery in PVP gear. So to me, this argument isn't about dispel protection it's about "I want to use fire spells in pvp but can't because of dispel and incinerate's high reliance on Immolate to be worth casting". CC the dispeller? I dont know what the solution is but it's not dispel protection.
    If Conflagrate were in any way remotely dangerously bordering on OP (like it was at stages in WOTLK), I'd agree, but on the whole destro's damage output is on the low side; having it dispelled just accentuates this. 1v1 CCing the dispeller of course might work, but it becomes much harder as you go into 2v2 or 3v3 or 5v5 or rated BGs, particularly because most of destro's CC is itself dispellable, and Fear difficult to get off in the current PVP environment (relating back to the loss of Improved Succubus.) Considering how crucial the spell is to destro, it really ought to be undispellable.

    I'm not sure what your PVP experience is, but not even affliction would spam SB. It's just asking to be interrupted, and for destro there's the added humiliation of pathetic damage.

    Splitting dispels means that you actually use the imp in PVP and have a choice between Felhunter and others as Affliction. Also, if you're being dispelled a lot then Succubus Demon Soul is actually pretty powerful.
    The choice between using Devour Magic defensively or offensively was good enough for me. If they gave me independent reasons to use the Imp, sure, then I'd welcome the choice. The way Blizzard did it was to nerf the one pet so as to force us into switching. I'm fine with pet choice if it entails increases in utility/damage as was the case with the Felguard.

    I haven't noticed a fall in Seduction's utility, can you explain?
    The removal of improved Succubus. This wouldnt've been as noticeable in WOTLK, where Fear was pretty easy to get off due to haste stacking and there were fewer interrupts flying about, but now it's a fairly long cast that forces the already fragile Succubus out of invisibility. The spell shares DR with Fear, so you could never just spam it, and the pet OOMs fast if you try to, as well as being vulnerable to interrupts should anyone choose to. Whiplash is nice, but nothing compared to instant Seduction.

    You asked for targetable Teleport - this is basically Heroic Leap and as someone with a Warrior I don't want this on my warlock. Remove the Warlock is a good idea, however.
    That one was one of the less conservative requests. Simply making placing the spell instant would be enough for me.

    SL auto on means it can't be turned off. This is how auras work. Can you click off Devotion aura? the 3% damage buff from Arcane Mages? You cant because its how they made the game, and (since others ask for it too) continually requesting it is a waste of their time. It would be the only beneficial aura in the game you would want to turn off sometimes.
    Just make it function like Demonic Pact, then, albeit for all pets.

    I think Whiplash needs a 2s disorient, not a stunbreaker.
    Well the more useful the Succubus is, the less necessary a stunbreaker becomes.

    Interrupt protection would be nice, but since a lot of our damage can continue after we've been interrupted I think blizzard would be reluctant to give us this.
    Provided it isn't then dispelled. As I conceded earlier, this is more a problem with interrupts themselves than continuing the arms race, so it'd be better to look at them first.

    I agree with the glyph being baseline, but at what cost?
    Does it really even need one? The spell is worthless without the glyph. It's a marginal dps gain in cases where you can go in melee in PVE but that's it. Compare it to CoC, or most other spells that are similar in nature. Their glyphs increase their utility over and above a baseline. Warlocks are not meant to be the best of kiters, but asking to make this glyph baseline is a paltry request when you compare to other classes' toolsets.


    To Moonlapse, for PVP in environments we face a mixture of casters and pure melee. Pet choice is dictated more by opponent than spec (unless it's demo, the FG is very good on the whole.) The choice used to be between the Succubus (Warrior/Rogue) and Felhunter (almost everything else.) You could sort of handle casters with a Succubus since she can interrupt by seducing, though even that level of utility has been reduced since she's now forced to cast Seduction. Not having the right pet out could be crippling. Right now it still is a hamper (even with pet summons being a tad less costly), and to reduce the Succubus's effectiveness and on top of that force a choice between the Imp and FH when dealing with casters is just insane. The utility these pets offer is good but nothing incredible next to what other classes have baseline. They're already a bit weaker because they offer concurrent usage with Warlock casting. As for PVE, I care less about demo varying pets there, but it seems more like a design error with respect to affliction. For destro, it's simply not feasible with current pet/Demon Soul mechanics. So if Blizzard wishes us to vary pets, they need to come up with better ways of it.
    Last edited by Zathrendar; 2011-01-10 at 07:22 PM.
    Start trying to work out who deserves what, and before long you’ll spend the rest of your days weeping for each and every person in the world.

  9. #29
    Legendary! gherkin's Avatar
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    Succubus isn't as squishie as she once was. In fact, she's probably on par with the other two standard dps pets. If she's dying faster then it's likely because of people focusing it due to her core mechanic rather than because she has less armor/hp
    Shadowflame is useful as a dispel protector, as it's damage is on par with a single heal OR a dispel. Also, it triggers Conflagrate (well it did in wotlk) so you could use it as a double-snare - daze + glyphed effect.

    I got nothin' else :P

    R.I.P. YARG

  10. #30
    sadly, we cannot conflag from shadowflame anymore

  11. #31
    The Lightbringer Zathrendar's Avatar
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    If she's dying faster then it's likely because of people focusing it due to her core mechanic rather than because she has less armor/hp
    Indeed. As for Shadowflame, the problem with it is you usually want to conserve it for kiting melee, and of course it also depends on your target being in melee distance. It partially resolves the problem but it'd be better to simply let Immolate not be dispelled. It's not like you cannot stop a destrolock's damage output once it's up, as they still need to cast.



    Also, another change not yet listed in the notes is to the default range of Curse of Exhaustion. With the movement speed reduction at 30% in 4.0.6, down from 50%, the range is being increased to 40 yards, up from 30.
    So, anyone else think Blizzard has lost the plot? I'd prefer they reduced this spell's range, rather than just making it a long-range waste of a GCD.

    Also, am I allowed to put links to threads in my sig?
    Start trying to work out who deserves what, and before long you’ll spend the rest of your days weeping for each and every person in the world.

  12. #32
    Legendary! gherkin's Avatar
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    Yes you can put links in your sig.

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  13. #33
    lol what a joke

    not only are almost none of these changes needed, but your dismissive , all or nothing tone makes you look like a moron

    try again bud

  14. #34
    The Lightbringer Zathrendar's Avatar
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    not only are almost none of these changes needed
    Feel free to make the argument.

    all or nothing tone makes you look like a moron
    Sure.

    try again bud
    Tu quoque.
    Last edited by Zathrendar; 2011-01-11 at 03:32 PM.
    Start trying to work out who deserves what, and before long you’ll spend the rest of your days weeping for each and every person in the world.

  15. #35
    Scarab Lord Nicola's Avatar
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    1) fix pets so they don't randomly dissapear in ecounters and they don't get killed instantly like from the poison from lord poisonguy in sfk.
    2) Gife a nice compensate for isf for demo. Gife a talent like dual pets, reducing pet damage by 35% but allows the use of 2 pets at the same time, or a talent to spawn a 2nd pet for like 15sec from HoG. ( That isn't as weak as ebon imp). Me likez pets.
    3) Gife UA a huge boost. Make it deal 50k damage when dispelled.
    4) Buff felhunter dps for affliction
    5) Buff felguard so i don't have to use succy.

  16. #36
    The Lightbringer Zathrendar's Avatar
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    Yeah those would be nice. So can anyone on the US forum copy/paste this there? Putting this stuff up on the EU forum is no use other than for spawning discussion but it's mostly just that that brought the list together anyway.
    Start trying to work out who deserves what, and before long you’ll spend the rest of your days weeping for each and every person in the world.

  17. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by gherkin View Post
    SL auto on means it can't be turned off. This is how auras work. Can you click off Devotion aura? the 3% damage buff from Arcane Mages? You cant because its how they made the game, and (since others ask for it too) continually requesting it is a waste of their time. It would be the only beneficial aura in the game you would want to turn off sometimes.
    IMO they should put SL on auto-on and on the pet bar, functioning much like Blood Pact or Fireshield used to. They're auto on, but able to be turned off. And more visibly with the pet, for people that keep their pet bars out.

  18. #38
    Herald of the Titans Agallochh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dethh View Post
    We do its called shadowburn.

    I'd settle for our promised soulstone BR any patch now plz.
    Yeah the SS Battle Res would be amazing.
    And utilizing DS/Shadowburn is great on boss fights where there's adds. On boss fights without adds, when I'm out of shards i'm out of shards, and i think that's intended because they're supposed to be a resource we rely on situationally. And honestly the only use I see for it is for the instant soul fire. Although, a soul burned drain life as affliction in PvP can help with some quick healing, but only minimally.
    Lained - 60 Shaman | Lainedtv - 60 Druid | Lainedz - 60 Paladin

  19. #39
    The Lightbringer Zathrendar's Avatar
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    4.0.6 bump!
    Start trying to work out who deserves what, and before long you’ll spend the rest of your days weeping for each and every person in the world.

  20. #40
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    Immolate needs some sort of UA effect (maybe a stacking undispelable damage debuff on dispeller)
    Remove Corruption from rotation and buff chaos bolt
    Lower imps damage, buff locks damage

    Not uniquely destro related but remove dark intent and give us something interesting.

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