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  1. #1

    Normal mode raids hard?

    Not sure if it is just my guild, but last night we killed omnitron defence system after 4-5 hours of wiping. I have talked to others, and read some forums, and the general concensus is that the encounters are "easy". 4-5 hours isn't bad for an encounter, but for me, this by no means is "easy." We are by no means scrubs in my guild, I am quite picky on who we recruit, and for the 10 man I took all the best geared players. Me personally I am 350ilvl. Also, we attempted magmaw for an hour (gonna go back in tonight). In that hour, it seems like we need to bring 4 healers to that fight. Healers just can't keep up. We all stack up, we all shuffle left or right for when the worms spawn. Not too sure what we are doing wrong. Or are we doing anything wrong? is 4-5 hours per encounter the norm? If so, then might as well persevere and get more bosses down.

  2. #2
    get more gear its not that hard, maybe adjust tactics

  3. #3
    Depends on the guild, 4-5 hours on the early bosses (no offense intended) seems perfectly fine for a super casual guild. The fights are not super super hard on regular but they are certainly harder than most WotLK fights, keep at it and it will get easier as your group adjusts

    To put it in perspective my guild went 9/12 first week and cleared reg second week (we started raiding second week of Cata [Save BH but it doesn't count] so we had time to gear up a bit in heroics but not a ton of time there).

    Just keep working on improving your raiders and tactics, researching before hand can help as there is tons of information out there now adays.

  4. #4
    The Insane det's Avatar
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    Not wanting to dig out "the old times" but for our guild it was by no means a gurantee that we would kill one boss per week in MC - in fact there were a few that we were hung up for 2-3 weeks.

    If you compare boss progress with other expansions, it is indeed slower than in WotLK...no guild roflstomped even the normal modes as a look on the mmo frontpage will show.

    No..4-5 hours isn't easy, but it is 1-2 raidnights, which basically means you can get a couple of bosses down per week (ok..our guild got 4 the week we started)...so you take maybe 6 weeks to kill all normal bosses and then start a mix of hardmodes and normals. All good and fair if you ask me - because there will be some waittime until the next tier is released...and isn't it nice to know we won't get bored too fast?
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  5. #5
    4-5 hours? thats fine for a casual guild imo. wouldn't it be boring if you kill bosses within 30 minutes? in wotlk most of the people complained about too less content. im quite happy that this problem is solved now. best raid content since bc

  6. #6
    High Overlord scaredandbaked's Avatar
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    i know what you mean, same boat as you, most of us are 350 item level and higher.. We tried halfus, but got the hardest combo. nether scion, slate and storm. We keep getting to 10-15% before he enrages. I think it is our DPS at that point. I am the guilds main tank (druid tank) avoidance stacking FTW. All i can say is keep trying.

  7. #7
    wotlk champs wants to run through instances like fucking mario

  8. #8
    I like it harder and slower progress - I wont be bored to death after a month.
    1/12hc 25 atm, will be plenty of wipe fests for a long period of time.
    Although Id rather have it harder by default and no extra "HC" modes (please note there were no so advanced boss mods back then) - just like in vanilla.

  9. #9
    Remember that you spent the majority of that 4-5 hours learning the encounter. You'll be back in there next week and one or two shot it, if people remember what they're doing.

    Heroic Recruitment -- Hersh's multi-PoV kill vids. -- Raids & Dungeons & Hunter kitty
    no one huntars like gaston

  10. #10
    All i can say is that we did Magmaw for the first time on Wednesday (both our MTs were away over xmas - one only dinged in the week and wasnt geared yet, other one was barely geared. We wiped a few times on the Tuesday night, but were only really having a look. Did it after maybe 10 attempts (2-3 hours perhaps). The mechanics were nothing too hard, it was simply having the dps and healing to do it. Needed 4 ranged dps to handle to adds (this is 10 man BTW) as although me and one other were doing 11K dps (about 345 avg. gear, so not bad without key buffs), others were less.

    As you gear up, i imagine things will get much, much easier. As i mentioned above, mechanics were'nt a problem, it was simply being able to execute them, due to gear.

    In before people saying they were doing 20k dps in all greens and 1-shot all the bosses..........

    85 pala (tank1); 85 DK (tank2; 85 priest (unused), 85Drood (heals); 85 lock (dps); 85 warrior (Tank3) 85 hunter ;83 Shammy (Ele/Resto);65 rogue

  11. #11
    Bloodsail Admiral Blacksen's Avatar
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    I think that raiding has now become only for "progression" purposes, and that guilds will devolve into either "hardmode" progression or "normal mode" progression. A lot of the normal modes pose legitimate challenges: Ascendant Council, Al'akir, Atramedes, Chimaeron, and Nefarian. If you were a guild that went 11/12 after the 25% buff, you're probably going to be thrown into the "normal" category.

    Heroic gear isn't for everyone. We shouldn't have 90% of guilds sporting heroic gear.

    As also mentioned, it's ridiculous how fast people scale with gear. Heroics are back to WotLK style in which we just AoE everything down. Healer mana is no longer a concern on the shorter raid encounters.


  12. #12
    Dreadlord
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    We started 25s this week and are 6/12 currently. I'd have to say the hardest was the Conclave in Four Winds because of positioning and jumping. But that was the only night we only got one boss down (did 25 BH beforehand so we lost a little time in our 4 hr raid slot). Make them watch vids and read up. Tough love
    Quote from: Thallidomaniac on March 28, 2010, 05:56:24 am
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  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadocaster View Post
    the general concensus is that the encounters are "easy"
    Don't forget people who read wow raiding forums, are not your average raider.
    About EP:
    Quote Originally Posted by Aldriana
    With the usual caveats about these numbers being based on a specific set of gear which probably isn't what you're using, such that these answers will be approximately right but not exact
    Vanilla: 60 Shaman
    BC: 70 Rogue, 70 Druid
    Wrath: 80 Druid, 80 Paladin, 80 Shaman, 80 Rogue
    Cata: 85 Rogue (Holmés), 85 Priest (Naclwater)

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Blacksen View Post
    .... If you were a guild that went 11/12 after the 25% buff, you're probably going to be thrown into the "normal" category.

    Heroic gear isn't for everyone. We shouldn't have 90% of guilds sporting heroic gear.
    This totally applies to me, and i agree. We managed LK at (i think) first day of either 15% buff or 20% buff, and ended up with 10/12 HM. We worked hard and had a good group, but i'd never compare ourselves to "hardcore" guilds. I dont mind if all i can manage is normal mode, maybe a couple of hard modes, if its genuinly hard. However, i dont want to clear everything in the first week and be "the odd one out" if i only have a few hard modes instead of them all.

    85 pala (tank1); 85 DK (tank2; 85 priest (unused), 85Drood (heals); 85 lock (dps); 85 warrior (Tank3) 85 hunter ;83 Shammy (Ele/Resto);65 rogue

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Damntastic View Post
    wotlk champs wants to run through instances like fucking mario
    I wasn't implying that. I was asking if my guild was 'on track'. And judging by the responses, we are. Thanks everyone for your responses

  16. #16
    It has nothing to do with gear, really. 350 is overgearing for the starter bosses. Try Bastion however, we found both of the first two to be complete faceroll in comparison to BWD. Omnitron is basically all about individual skill and coordination in the raid/from the leader. If this lacks, you will fail. We got Omnitron down after five wipes or so, Magmaw took 15 or something. We were 10/12 ICC HM with all the buffs, so not super skilled exactly.

    Regarding Magmaw, your healers are undergeared, your ranged is probably too slow on downing parasites and people might be eating Pillars. All of these are factors - also, tell your healers to slack and do nothing during headphase, to regen, and just generally do whatever they can to regen during that phase (shaman with Telluric Currents can spam LB for example).

  17. #17
    Mechagnome Logbc's Avatar
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    Cleared my last normal mode yesterday and I can honestly say this has been my favorite tier of raiding in a long long time.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadocaster View Post
    Not sure if it is just my guild, but last night we killed omnitron defence system after 4-5 hours of wiping. I have talked to others, and read some forums, and the general concensus is that the encounters are "easy". 4-5 hours isn't bad for an encounter, but for me, this by no means is "easy." We are by no means scrubs in my guild, I am quite picky on who we recruit, and for the 10 man I took all the best geared players. Me personally I am 350ilvl. Also, we attempted magmaw for an hour (gonna go back in tonight). In that hour, it seems like we need to bring 4 healers to that fight. Healers just can't keep up. We all stack up, we all shuffle left or right for when the worms spawn. Not too sure what we are doing wrong. Or are we doing anything wrong? is 4-5 hours per encounter the norm? If so, then might as well persevere and get more bosses down.
    It would help diagnose the problem if you told us what the problems on Omnomnomitron were that caused you to take 4-5 hours. And on Magmaw, make sure your healers know that they can blow a lot of mana on the normal phase, because there's no healing going on during the whole "impaled on a spike" phase. If your problem is DPS/HPS/people dying to stupid things, then you simply need to get better. I have a sneaking suspicion that you might have bad healers, considering Omnitron has no enrage (meaning you either wiped because people were standing in stuff they shouldn't have been, or healers just weren't very good) and Magmaw isn't all that healing intensive.

  19. #19
    You are just fine I'd say, my guild is a casual one and we like it like that we downed halfus in 5-6 tries the first week we raided which is last week, then we got magmaw pretty easy when the add thingy is under controle... for us our big challenge yesturday was conclave of wind.. not cuz it's difficult but cuz of bad timing we had 2 range and 1 heal over the wind boss and after the ultimatum when going back 1 time out of 2 they eated the wind so we wiped to bad luck but its fairly rough not difficult.. just got to get in mind that there is no more 2 min boss downing like icc 10 reg omnitro is a bitch for us right now but we attempted it on 2 raid nights after 2 new boss kill and we weren't minded enough i guess but we will have it eventually its a time question.. don't give up just read up on the fights to find tactics.


    Some 1 mentioned the slate storm and nether scion.. if I may tell you by experience since we killed him twice with that set up.. take the 2 drakes up at the same time (storm and nether) and leave slates down, I (blood DK) was tanking the boss and had a paladin BOP me to get rid of the stacks at about 12-13 MS stacks... depends on your tank tought, then after the second set of stack is up you should be able to have killed both drake and rotate taunt on the boss leaving 1 drake up.. hope it helps

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by deusnick View Post
    You are just fine I'd say, my guild is a casual one and we like it like that we downed halfus in 5-6 tries the first week we raided which is last week, then we got magmaw pretty easy when the add thingy is under controle... for us our big challenge yesturday was conclave of wind.. not cuz it's difficult but cuz of bad timing we had 2 range and 1 heal over the wind boss and after the ultimatum when going back 1 time out of 2 they eated the wind so we wiped to bad luck but its fairly rough not difficult.. just got to get in mind that there is no more 2 min boss downing like icc 10 reg omnitro is a bitch for us right now but we attempted it on 2 raid nights after 2 new boss kill and we weren't minded enough i guess but we will have it eventually its a time question.. don't give up just read up on the fights to find tactics.


    Some 1 mentioned the slate storm and nether scion.. if I may tell you by experience since we killed him twice with that set up.. take the 2 drakes up at the same time (storm and nether) and leave slates down, I (blood DK) was tanking the boss and had a paladin BOP me to get rid of the stacks at about 12-13 MS stacks... depends on your tank tought, then after the second set of stack is up you should be able to have killed both drake and rotate taunt on the boss leaving 1 drake up.. hope it helps
    Slate dragon gives you the unique ability to make the channeled knockdown that Halfus does a complete joke. If he gets stunned during that, it stops, which allows more dps and more healing to happen. If DPS is the issue, then just activate slate, but don't kill it. Have it be constantly tanked and just have the MT and OT switch places at 11 or 12 stacks.

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