Jaw dropping Resto builds

[Kramar]

"unless you miss 4 times in a row with LB, it ends up being a mana gain" 10 secs of casting for a mana gain?

Ok i'll make this easier... the paragon shaman that spent 7pts for a Telluric spec gained 9602 mana over an 11 minute encounter?

thats just crap i'm sorry! when water shield did 56000 and replenishment 54000

Number time!

According to the log, he cast LB 3 times(Source), Lightning Bolt has a base mana cost of 6%(source). A shaman's base mana at lvl 85 is 23430(source). so this equals 1405.8 mana(23430 multiplied by 0.08 is in most cases 1405.8) the 3 lightning bolts he cast have thus cost 4217.4 mana(1405.8*3), or if we round the base cost up 4218 mana(1406*3).
Net gain is thus 5384(.6 if we don't round down). 5384/119602 = ~0.045 which means that he gained 4.5% more mana than he would have if he didn't cast those Lightning bolts.
Now let's look at how much we benefit from this amount of mana.
5384 mana is just under 23% of base mana ((5384/23420)*100= ~22.99%) this means 2 more extra riptides(9.4% base mana), 2 extra Healing Waves(8.48% base mana), 1 earthshield(17.86% base mana) 1 chain heal(18.8% base mana) and a variety of totems.
This might not seem much, but if you're oom just before a kill and cause a whipe, and at any point in that fight, you had the time and oppertunity to cast a few LB's, but you didn't, you're one of the reasons why you whiped.

Telluric Currents, I'd hit that.

[Dundebuns]

As you progress further into content T.Currents becomes more and more worthless as you just don't have the time to cast LB's to take advantage of it, and need to constantly cast just to keep up with half what a paladin or priest does.

[MatsT]

Telluric Currents is way too weak and useless on any fight where there are no +damage buffs/debuffs. On places like Magmaw, Maloriak and Halfus it can be useful though.

[Hypernetic]

As you progress further into content T.Currents becomes more and more worthless as you just don't have the time to cast LB's to take advantage of it, and need to constantly cast just to keep up with half what a paladin or priest does.

Why do people care so much about fucking healing meters?

[Herrenos]

I take 2 points in TC but not the hit talents. (giving up imp ghost wolf hurts too much imo).

I have a target target's target macro for LB and I cast it whenever there is a free GCD. Mana cost is 1407, average damage is around 6k, average mana return is 2400. It's not a mana loss as long as you hit 2 out of 3 times. I'm a spacegoat, making my miss rate is 16%, so the law of large numbers is in my favor.

Also I crit more often than I miss, and any encounter where there is a damage boost, it's ofc a big mana return. So far I've found TC to be most useful for Halfus (damage boost), Double Dragon (periods of light healing), Magmaw (damage boost) and Chimaeron (burn phase), and i'm 8/12.

[tulsatom]

ya like on magmaw.........when theres down time pewpew away and your back to a ful bar of mana and didnt have to make a druid waste thier innervate on you

[Adoris]

Why he was using that spec on other fights though? Because nobody wants to pay 50-100g every 2 hours of raiding.

You realise that top-end guilds don't care much about respec costs when it comes to performance right? Hell yeah they will waste the 2k gold a week for respecs if that'd help them towards world/region first. And thumbs up for that, i mean dedication to that level cant be found anywhere but in a guild like those.

[Cairm]

Number time!

According to the log, he cast LB 3 times(Source), Lightning Bolt has a base mana cost of 6%(source). A shaman's base mana at lvl 85 is 23430(source). so this equals 1405.8 mana(23430 multiplied by 0.08 is in most cases 1405.8) the 3 lightning bolts he cast have thus cost 4217.4 mana(1405.8*3), or if we round the base cost up 4218 mana(1406*3).
Net gain is thus 5384(.6 if we don't round down). 5384/119602 = ~0.045 which means that he gained 4.5% more mana than he would have if he didn't cast those Lightning bolts.
Now let's look at how much we benefit from this amount of mana.
5384 mana is just under 23% of base mana ((5384/23420)*100= ~22.99%) this means 2 more extra riptides(9.4% base mana), 2 extra Healing Waves(8.48% base mana), 1 earthshield(17.86% base mana) 1 chain heal(18.8% base mana) and a variety of totems.
This might not seem much, but if you're oom just before a kill and cause a whipe, and at any point in that fight, you had the time and oppertunity to cast a few LB's, but you didn't, you're one of the reasons why you whiped.

Telluric Currents, I'd hit that.

Anytime, even more with these maths!

[Ushra]

You realise that top-end guilds don't care much about respec costs when it comes to performance right? Hell yeah they will waste the 2k gold a week for respecs if that'd help them towards world/region first. And thumbs up for that, i mean dedication to that level cant be found anywhere but in a guild like those.

Basically that. Respeccing only costs like 66G and you can have 2 specs which you can continuously interchange if needed.

[shadowkras]

You realise that top-end guilds don't care much about respec costs when it comes to performance right? Hell yeah they will waste the 2k gold a week for respecs if that'd help them towards world/region first. And thumbs up for that, i mean dedication to that level cant be found anywhere but in a guild like those.

Im aware of that, yet he doesnt do that, why? There are attempts he doesnt cast a single lightning bolt, so why keep telluric currents for every fight if he wont use it?

For the simple incovenience of respecing all the time. You realise that?

[Carighan]

Why do people care so much about fucking healing meters?

You raid for the fights or the social experience? Are you nuts?!

^_^

[Ares42]

I'd say the best conclusion would be to say that TC is gimmicky. It's great for a few specific fights and nothing special for everything else. If you really have time to gain much mana from it in any fight that doesn't have +damage taken, then the fight is most likely not challenging your mana anyways.

[kosajk]

my opinion is:
if he like that build, he find it usefull somwhere and its not hurting anyone i dont see the problem,

i personally have totemic reach at cost of ~0,4% dps from improved shields its working beter on some fights and is completley unusufull on others, is it so big problem that i have lost ~100 dps on most of static fights for more utility what i find usefull in raids ? i like that build and its my choice, no one should flame just cose im doing my choices about my talents expecially if its working pretty good for me and my raid

if its so ofending to you, make a char on his server and talk with him, he may have some good reasons for that build and maybe will even find time to answear to your questions

[Carighan]

I'd say the best conclusion would be to say that TC is gimmicky. It's great for a few specific fights and nothing special for everything else. If you really have time to gain much mana from it in any fight that doesn't have +damage taken, then the fight is most likely not challenging your mana anyways.

Yeah, that's not a bad description. It's like a lot of gimmicky talents, it has fights where it can be your single strongest talent, and others where it's useless. A surprising amount of fights either have breaks or +damage components however, so it's not bad overall. I reckon for min/max-ers you better respec back&forth.

[MrMuggles]

Consider their amount of healers, I wouldn't be surprised if some of them would be able to throw off some Lightning Bolts during Deathwing's aerial phase.

[Yagamoth]

About the spec with "7 points for TC"
--> Don't forget Wind Shear. With the Spirit -> hit talent it becomes reliable. Especially on DPS-demanding fights it can be really useful that you have another ranged interrupt. As far as I know, Enhancement Shamans are the only ones that do not suffer any DPS-loss when interrupting. However, Resto Shamans can place themselves anywhere and don't have to be in Meelee range.

I actually find time to use LB quiet often in fights that I know, some may not even consider. After a Feud-Phase at Chimaeron I usually have time for 2 LBs if I don't have to top off the offtank. Of course many occasions depend on Raid composition - a DK Offtank at Chimaeron heals himself for an insane amount.

[killzwitch]

At times TC is taken with the intention of using it, however on some occasions it is not required or the burn phases are used to recover from a pretty nasty (ill timed) AoE or other boss ability that the Shaman wasn't expecting.

The throughput and mana returned from the Shaman in question speccing into something else might not have been needed - at that level of gear it simply might not be required whereas the option to DPS without nomnoming your mana could prove to be useful in the encounter, it's just being a hybrid.

[windfurybot]

Considering any time you spend not casting = mana regen/damage you could have gained, TC isn't bad at all. If the only person taking damage during a phase of the fight is the tank, and you have RT and ES on him, why continue healing when the other healers are doing precisely that. Instead, cast the LB, get some mana back. On fights you go oom, mana tide is down, and you've already used your potion, TC can save the day.

You have 2 choices, either sit there waiting on the mana to regen, or instead cast a LB or 2 for enough mana to refresh your RT or cast a healing wave. basically, TC makes it so you're casting 100% of the time (unless you're moving and SWG is down). It is a balancing act though, knowing when to be casting the heal and when to be casting the LB, and that's what makes the difference between a shaman healer and a good shaman healer.

[Tromp]

Paragon and a handful of the top-tier progression guilds are always going to have different dynamics than 95%+ of the PvE scene. Most people are going to have multiple logs, videos, and strategies available, and a high chance that the encounters have been nerfed by the time they are able to access the content. I find it bizarre how critical people can be and how they attempt to compare a top-tier progression player against their own experience when they are worlds apart in progression. Then again, I suppose that is what these forums are for.

The Shaman community is very different from what it used to be. A good chunk of top PvE shamans have either quit the game or rerolled to another class. In addition, there have been a ton of changes to game play, specifically with healing, so much of what is out there no longer applies. I will throw a couple of things into the mix here, but am not interested in getting into a huge debate about any of this.

Since someone brought up Paragon, I guess I will start there. Their two restoration shamans are Kahva and Kyylol. They have had several restoration specs since the release of Cataclysm and the majority of their logs (along with most high-end guilds) are not public, so rattling your brain over their spec/logs is somewhat pointless. If it matters that much to you, go on IRC and speak with them yourselves. Spec'ing at least 7 points in the Elemental tree is commonplace in progression guilds. Some bypass the Enhancement tree altogether. Am I saying you need to do this? No. However, if your guild is currently progressing through 25-man heroics, I should not need to say it. You have already done it by now.

One of the primary benefits of spec'ing 7 points into Elemental is to snag 2/3 Elemental Precision. 2/3 will allow you to get hit capped (less if you are Draenei). Needless to say it goes well with TC. Some heroic encounters are tightly tuned, so if the raid as a whole is still slightly undergeared, the hit/damage increases could be the difference between a kill or a 2% wipe. Like I mentioned above, some shamans have bypassed the Enhancement tree and put 10 points into Elemental to grab 'Call of Flame' simply because of that.

As I browse through forums, I have seen the argument for Ancestral Swiftness. If you fall in that crowd and you find that it works well for you, use it. However, at this point I find it a waste for PvE 25-man heroic progression. The other healing classes manage without the talent and so have we for some time. You still have the option of using a meta or boot enchant for a movement speed increase. You should not have to rely on it as an 'OSHT' talent. If you are consistently having to shift into Ghost Wolf because of an 'OSHT' moment, something is wrong. The talent becomes less appealing as a Goblin because of Rocket Jump. Any 'OSHT' moments should be covered between Rocket Jump, Spiritwalker's Grace, and Stoneclaw Totem. In addition, our best role is raid healing and in most cases will end up with Healing Rain, Chain Heal, and Earthliving making up the majority of our effective healing. Healing Rain stops healing/ticking when we are shapeshifted. With all the other tools and options available to us, I do not see it as a must have talent for everyday raiding.