4.0.6, Shaman gets nerfed...?

[Radux]

The dispel is still on the GCD (1.5 seconds). This Cleansing Waters thing basically just means that it can dispel both a magic and curse effect, however the heal can only fire once.

[Deleted]

Cleansing Waters now has a 0.5 sec cooldown.
I dont get this nerf. Wasn't the GCD for this .5 anyway?
And does this mean that every other healing class is getting their cleanse nerfed to .5 seconds as well? cause if not thats straight up BS 2 the max.

Its because Imp. cleanse spirit removes 1 curse and 1 magic effect, without the .5 sec cooldown we were getting two heals for the same cast. Its a fair change.

[babuthegreat63]

Perhaps the fact that we have purge is a sign to use it? Fail logic is fail. We still get spellpower through talents, and had intellect all throughout wotlk. If you wanna tell me the only baseline pvp ability we have is not suitable for me, and therefor i should not using it, you are very much pitiyable. We dont have cool, for melee designed abilities, that's why we use what we have and that's the reason we suck in many ways and excell at others. Nerfing us at said spots simply because they tend to be powerful, outside the box, niche strenghts is simply not right. We payed for that strenght for dozens of weaknesses.


Please explain to me how you could have possibly gotten that wrong? Either you must have really tried hard, or you must be...well. not matter.
You know what i meant. I did not say he would chainfear the whole team at the same time. Chainfearing the team means he's fearing one, then another, then another, and then starts at the first one again. Was that so hard?


Have you actually played pvp as a shaman yet? I mean against people who know how to play? Any decent warlock fears if the shaman dares to drop tremor. That doesn't mean he wont fear you if you dont. But it's an obvious opportunity. If someone shows you weakness, you exploit it, simple as that.


I'd like to see the math to that. 2 Tremor totems in 2 minutes. you wand both. you destroy grounding with a corruption spell, and fake cast a fear. even if you dont manage to pull that off, the next fear is bound to go through.
So you're whole story afterwards is flawed.

Yep... And you think you are actually having points here? You wanna tell me enh is not as important a spec? Not worthy of something powerful?
It's the spec it's matters most to. Also it's quite a hit for the other ones as well. Shamans have to spam purge now twice as much. Some classes can put up two effects with 1 gcd, it's pretty much impossible know peeling of the layers of a healer protected target. For an enhance your manapool will go byebye, and enh is more dependant on purge than the other ones as well.

and it is obviously more worth the long cooldown now. since you can now use it while feared, it functions like a pvp trinket with only a one min cooldown instead of two[/QUOTE]

What's that supposed to mean? More worth the long cooldown now? It had no f*cking cooldown. I dont want it to have one, okay? If it would've been a shitty glyph like grounding where we would be able to have it that way, sure, why not, let those who think it's better take it, and suck, but not like this.
And also: With the exception that it's totally different in pretty much every single way such as (including but not limited to):
-5hp destroyable totem
-aoe removal attempt
-range limit[/QUOTE]

reading comprehension ftl on your part i guess. please go back through my last post and reread it a bit more slowly. you half quoted every point i made and don't seem to understand some of the most basic points of it.

if you've already broken my fear twice through the new tremor and your trinket, plus interrupted one of my fear casts.then the only fear that i can reliably stick on you 1v1 is going to last for three seconds. I'd like to see the math to that. 2 Tremor totems in 2 minutes. you wand both. you destroy grounding with a corruption spell, and fake cast a fear. even if you dont manage to pull that off, the next fear is bound to go through.
So you're whole story afterwards is flawed.

case in point, i specified the NEW tremor. drop it AFTER the lock casts fear. if it pulses more rapidly as previosly stated, that's a FEAR BREAK. do you understand that concept? it inccurs the DR on fear.

let me further explain the point i made about it needing a cooldown. how long is the cooldown on a pvp trinket? 2 minutes. the function of the new tremor totem will be very similar to a pvp trinket, useable after being cc'd. if the trinket gets a 2 min cooldown, why the hell wouldn't the totem have one?

so you can't purge spam wipe all the buffs off of them, dps through them like every other class that doesn't have a spammable dispell

---------- Post added 2011-01-11 at 05:05 PM ----------

on another note.....you talk about pvp as if your teamates don't do anything except sit back and let you fight locks 1v1....if you're playing anysort of competitve pvp, be it arenas or rated bgs, then maybe you need better teamates who know how to play their class? pretty much every class has atleast one way to break fear outside of their trinket. if you're fighting locks who are doing NOTHING but casting fear, which is pretty much the only way they could have a hope to get off as many fears as you seem to think that locks can use during a match, then you're playing against some awfully bad locks and you're awfully bad for letting the lock sit there and free cast fears at your whole team.

[Omanley]

just because it's usable while in fear doesn't make it a trinket. as you surely know, the diminishing returns of fear dont last a minute. Cause that's the ammount of time you, as a shaman had to cross ( w/o trinket ) without being feared. You force the shaman to pop tremor totem right away with a single target fear on him. a death coil/shadow fury will do the trick. After that, he cannot protect himself or his allies with tremor again.

Assuming he uses his trinket instead, he's got a 2minute cooldown right there, and in case there is a class with a non fear cooldown on your sight, he'd be forced to keep that for that. Regardless how you put it, with skill, positioning, good reaction and such, you were sometimes able to replant tremor the moment you were feared. The potential of the spell was cut into tiny peaces. People claim it will get better against better enemies, but that's bullshit. A good warlock will destroy you without the continues threat of your tremor totem breaking his fears. It requires much more brain to make a current tremor totem work, than a simply 1 minute cooldown. This is a punishment to those who made strategical totem replant their playstyle. I dont mind totem cooldowns per se, but this is simply bad.

Let me further explain my point about we should sheep one. It has none. Hex has. Ooooooh. Guess they are not necessarily related to each other? You are comparing a pvp trinket to a class ability, mate. And i know your point, but fact is: we didn't ask for a substantial buff at the cost of a huge nerf. If it's not going to happen to make a cooldown to allow us planting a set of totems for example while feared, or something, i rather keep my current tremor.

You dont get it, do you? Other classes have silence, stuns, mortal strike effect or more effective burst to accomplish what we have purge for: pressure casters. If you're going to take my purge, i want a 5 second stun. Tell me why that should not happen, after all you're permanently talking about other melees not having purge.

[babuthegreat63]

just because it's usable while in fear doesn't make it a trinket. as you surely know, the diminishing returns of fear dont last a minute. Cause that's the ammount of time you, as a shaman had to cross ( w/o trinket ) without being feared. You force the shaman to pop tremor totem right away with a single target fear on him. a death coil/shadow fury will do the trick. After that, he cannot protect himself or his allies with tremor again.

Assuming he uses his trinket instead, he's got a 2minute cooldown right there, and in case there is a class with a non fear cooldown on your sight, he'd be forced to keep that for that. Regardless how you put it, with skill, positioning, good reaction and such, you were sometimes able to replant tremor the moment you were feared. The potential of the spell was cut into tiny peaces. People claim it will get better against better enemies, but that's bullshit. A good warlock will destroy you without the continues threat of your tremor totem breaking his fears. It requires much more brain to make a current tremor totem work, than a simply 1 minute cooldown. This is a punishment to those who made strategical totem replant their playstyle. I dont mind totem cooldowns per se, but this is simply bad.

Let me further explain my point about we should sheep one. It has none. Hex has. Ooooooh. Guess they are not necessarily related to each other? You are comparing a pvp trinket to a class ability, mate. And i know your point, but fact is: we didn't ask for a substantial buff at the cost of a huge nerf. If it's not going to happen to make a cooldown to allow us planting a set of totems for example while feared, or something, i rather keep my current tremor.

You dont get it, do you? Other classes have silence, stuns, mortal strike effect or more effective burst to accomplish what we have purge for: pressure casters. If you're going to take my purge, i want a 5 second stun. Tell me why that should not happen, after all you're permanently talking about other melees not having purge.

death coil is a 3 second horror effect with a 2 min cooldown, shadow fury is spec dependent on being destro and is only a 3 sec stun max. no, the dr on fear doesn't last a minute, however the dr starts being factored the second the first fear lands, not the last. so you tremor out of the first, the next one is a 6 second, you trinket the second, the next one is a 3 second. you interrupt that one and eat a three second fear the fourth time the lock casts it. at a 1.7 second base cast time plus spell pushback, plus the 15 seconds of fear immunity you'll have once the fear breaks, barring any sort of help from your teammates you may have to eat one full duration fear in a minute that's going to break as soon as any signifcant damage is applied to you. explain to me why you deserve to be able to completely negate my classes only major defensive ability?

it's all rock paper scissors in the end, if purge is the only ability that shamans, especially enhance, have that's appealing to you, and all of the other melee classes have tools that you wish you could have, maybe you're playing the wrong class or spec.

[BFED123]

death coil is a 3 second horror effect with a 2 min cooldown, shadow fury is spec dependent on being destro and is only a 3 sec stun max. no, the dr on fear doesn't last a minute, however the dr starts being factored the second the first fear lands, not the last. so you tremor out of the first, the next one is a 6 second, you trinket the second, the next one is a 3 second. you interrupt that one and eat a three second fear the fourth time the lock casts it. at a 1.7 second base cast time plus spell pushback, plus the 15 seconds of fear immunity you'll have once the fear breaks, barring any sort of help from your teammates you may have to eat one full duration fear in a minute that's going to break as soon as any signifcant damage is applied to you. explain to me why you deserve to be able to completely negate my classes only major defensive ability?

it's all rock paper scissors in the end, if purge is the only ability that shamans, especially enhance, have that's appealing to you, and all of the other melee classes have tools that you wish you could have, maybe you're playing the wrong class or spec.

You think its all that easy? We cannot focus on disrupting you and putting all our attention on you because for the simple fact our heals suck. Without a buff to our single target heals, we wont be able to effeciently have a good balance of cc/heals, we will need to constantly hide behind pillars and heal our ass off and hope we dont go oom. We wont be able to get hex's/wind shears off properly anymore.

[Miku]

"
-Hex now has a PvP duration of 8 seconds.
- Purge now dispels a single effect instead of two.
-Tremor Totem has been redesigned. The totem is now usable under Fear, Charm, or Sleep effects, and pulses much more rapidly, but lasts 6 seconds and has a 1-minute cooldown."
Source

These changes, at least the top two are grave nerfs, why on earth would Blizzard nerf Shaman? If anything buff us... I really hope these changes are not final and that buffs in terms of damage and survival is provided as well. (At least for Elemental.)

The third change is just ridiculous if you ask me, how easy isn't it destroying the tremor the second we throw it out? One minute cool-down to waste.

The did buff shamans, they buffed what shamans actually needed being buffed which is resto. PvP nerfs sure go for it, they were a little OP in pvp anyways. I mean hex really needed a Pvp nerf and Purge was insane if you think about what it did for how easy and cheap it is on mana.

[BFED123]

The did buff shamans, they buffed what shamans actually needed being buffed which is resto. PvP nerfs sure go for it, they were a little OP in pvp anyways. I mean hex really needed a Pvp nerf and Purge was insane if you think about what it did for how easy and cheap it is on mana.

Id Love to know what you thought we need buff... Hex wasnt nerfed and it didnt need a nerf, its just down on the same time as all other cc's. If you think GHW + Mastery is what resto needed, I must ask if you actually pvp?

[babuthegreat63]

and with the nerf to fel armor, locks are going to be losing a huge amount of their self heals. are you talking about as enhance? i should hope that an enhance shaman cant out heal my damage by themself.

[Deleted]

I think the tremor change is more of a buff, seeing as to how you can use WHILE feared, etc, as well as how they are presently sniped when placed out anyways. The other two nerfs aren't very game changing.

the tremor change is two things: firstly a nerf and secondly it lowers the skill cap.

[lokkiee]

Hell yeah shamans are getting nerfed, what blizz needs to do is take a look at Ele and Enhance...Actually make thease more specificly playable especially enchance, they do not fit well in a 10man as far as group comp goes, and ele needs a dps boost as well as taking a look at the surviablity of both specs. Since enhance has almost no mana problems it seems that i can just spam heal and never go oom or take any of the healers mana. On the other hand the lack of pure dps is hurting us.. the ability to NOT be able to keep up with classes like DK's,Huntards, or mages is rediculous. BLIZZARD take a look at your codeing i think our GCD's are hindering us.

[Hypernetic]

Well unless they plan on making more changes I'd say we are pretty boned for PVP. I like how they made disc priests immune to silence, interrupts, and dispels when they shield themselves...

[Deleted]

<Moderator Edit: Trolling Youtube Video removed.>


This was no trolling. This was just a normal song. Unbelieveable

[Kiniun]

Purge isn't TOO strong, it's just strong. they could increase the mana cost to make it less about spamming and more about deciding when to use it (part of the mental quickness changes). Understandably enhance mana is basically unlimited but so far the changes are "this one ability is overpowered for one spec, so we're nerfing it across the board".

yes priests have mass dispel, and it is the utility priests bring to the table. But purge/tremor totem/bloodlust/mana tide are the utilities shaman bring to the table. We went from being an underperforming unique class to an underperforming homogenous class.

Sure, shaman are probably the strongest healers in pvp right now. Is that a bad thing? Can't (resto) shaman be on the top for a season? It's not like we're unstoppable winning machines, and a few tweaks here and there (increased mana for dispels/reduced healing effects for our cleanse) would even it up a little better, but nerfing most of the utility we have to put us back below other healers is a stretch. Someone has to be on top, but when it's a shaman, we get the nerf bat

How is your utility nerfed? You were hard countering shadow priests and affliction locks. By spamming dispel you could completely destroy these two specs without any sort of punishment. This was clearly overpowered and needed to be looked at as hard counters are not supposed to exist. Also, tremor totem needed a change. You have a DISPEL why on earth should you have fear immunity as well? In WoTLK it was fine, but with a defensive dispel it just doesn't make sense. Cleansing water fix is more than justified. Purge was too strong for all specs and that's a fact.

You still have all your spells, the difference is that now they actually require the slighest bit of skill to use. Good shamans will still be on top, bad ones will fail.

[dananch]

the fact is , enhance shaman were balanced right now with this overpowerd skill : purge

now bliz double nerf enhance purge , and no any buff on enhance damage / burst / defensive cooldown

so basically bliz just nerfed a balanced spec very hard and make it underpower

[brucebruce]

Tremor Totem Change.
The 6 sec duration of tremor is kinda not needed, What they should of done is perhaps redesign tremor into a shaman ability that breaks fear when activated and makes the shaman immune to fear effects for 4 secs or so. However, since this is not the design that they have in mind, they should at least increase the health of the tremor totem to scale with a percentage of the shaman's max health or something. 5 hp on totems just makes shamans rage. I thought this would of been changed in cataclysm.

Purge Nerf

As a few others have posted, the change to the offensive dispel was needed. I play multiple classes including a shaman (my main) and on my other toons, my mage most of all, purge taking away two buff just made me rage. As for purge not benefiting from mental quickness. Errrrrr blizz? please, fix this.

[Herrenos]

I just want some mobility as ele in pvp.

if I can't stand still for at least 2 seconds, my damage is cut by 90%.

imo make lightning bolt instant cast once every 6 seconds..... use the logic behind early frost in the frost mage tree.

[Omanley]

How is your utility nerfed? You were hard countering shadow priests and affliction locks. By spamming dispel you could completely destroy these two specs without any sort of punishment. This was clearly overpowered and needed to be looked at as hard counters are not supposed to exist. Also, tremor totem needed a change. You have a DISPEL why on earth should you have fear immunity as well? In WoTLK it was fine, but with a defensive dispel it just doesn't make sense. Cleansing water fix is more than justified. Purge was too strong for all specs and that's a fact.

You still have all your spells, the difference is that now they actually require the slighest bit of skill to use. Good shamans will still be on top, bad ones will fail.

You know that purge can NOT be used as a defensive cooldown? The only defensive dispeller among shaman specs is resto. How are shamans OP against sp/warlock then? A good warlock/priest stomps tremor and fear right before/after the fear. His dots cannot be removed unless shaman is resto, they cannot be interrupted either since they're insta spells, the only things outside of tremor, which is excelling is purge against shadows. Still, shadows can very well beat enhance. They have their disarm effect, a silence and, if they manage to avoid tremor break, a good aoe fear. couple that with powerful dots and you're good to go.

And we NEVER had any fear immunity at any time. Stop making things up. It's a 5hp stick that breaks fear every 3 seconds. That's an entirely different matter. If you are unable to totemstomp, than you are at fault for being bad, not we.

In wotlk was fine you say? Because we had no defensive dispell you say? As said only RESTO can defensive dispell. STOP SAYING ALL SHAMANS NEED A NERF BECAUSE OF RESTO. Purge was too strong for all classes and that's just QQ, nothing more. Maybe resto was to strong with it, but not enh/ele.

Skill? You talk about skill? I will go oom as enh in the process of peeling a caster naked ONCE. Have fun putting out damage then. And i'm not talking about casters putting up their layers UNPUNISHED I MIGHT ADD in the meantime.

---------- Post added 2011-01-12 at 02:29 PM ----------

death coil is a 3 second horror effect... explain to me why you deserve to be able to completely negate my classes only major defensive ability?

it's all rock paper scissors in the end, if purge is the only ability that shamans, especially enhance, have that's appealing to you, and all of the other melee classes have tools that you wish you could have, maybe you're playing the wrong class or spec.

Sry for answering only know, went to bed. You can alter between targets after fearing, right? Fear shaman once, force his totem. Fear him again, fear him again. AOE fear his team => kill the lonesome shaman => profit.

Explain to my why a caster class deserves to have a fury warrior on steroids pet, being able to shapeshift into an invincible demon with tank armor and hp, and COMPLETELY NEGATING my wolves with a quick hellfire?

By your logic...it's rock papers and scissors. Plate dps is rock, Casters are papers, and agi classes are scissors. Scissors beat paper, so agi classes beat casters. Shamans are good against fearing classes (priest/warlockl), casting classes ( windshear ) and buffing/hotting classes ( every caster ). We are Weak against melee though, just like a caster. I personally dont see the problem. You said it yourself, rock papers scissors, but just before ask why another class should be denied to negate/overpower you, when just after that you claim some classes are just plain better, or rather advantageous above others?

Sooo by your logic. If blizzard removes all stuns and silences and mortal strike effects from the other melees, and they start complain, you say they should simply reroll enh because they still had their purge, or switch to caster for that matter.

Again you're not making any sense at all. there are 6 melee's
All 6 have an interrupt

4 of them have a good stun
2 of them have mortal strike effect
2 of them have a silence
2 of them have a disarm
1 of them has offensive dispell, and nothing else

Rogues, Dk's, Warriors, Rets, Ferals, they all have at least two of those abilities (interrupt not included), while enh solely relies on purge. No purge is cut into 1/8 of it's worth, and we are told to shut up about it since resto was to strong with it?

---------- Post added 2011-01-12 at 02:32 PM ----------

Hell yeah shamans are getting nerfed, what blizz needs to do is take a look at Ele and Enhance...Actually make thease more specificly playable especially enchance, they do not fit well in a 10man as far as group comp goes, and ele needs a dps boost as well as taking a look at the surviablity of both specs. Since enhance has almost no mana problems it seems that i can just spam heal and never go oom or take any of the healers mana. On the other hand the lack of pure dps is hurting us.. the ability to NOT be able to keep up with classes like DK's,Huntards, or mages is rediculous. BLIZZARD take a look at your codeing i think our GCD's are hindering us.

You're not making much sense. You think it's good to nerf us in pvp, where, except resto, no spec is performing to good, but they should buff ele & enh in pve, where they are fine dps-wise right now, while resto is performing less in heal output?

They buffed resto heal which is fine pve wise. If resto proves to be to strong in pvp, nerf earth shield maybe, or riptide, or whatever i dont know, there are many possibilities to nerf a spec w/o ruining the class.

[keeb]

Omanley has the truth of the matter here.

Resto shaman are OP in arena right now. They nerfed all 3 specs, reducing Enhance/Ele to non-entities. Enhance got hit the hardest. and Ele deserved the nerf least.

Tremor Change is indeed a big nerf. Out of every 60 seconds while fighting Warlock, you will spend 20+ seconds in fear. Previously we could at least keep the warlock on his toes, stomping and re-stomping tremor, wasting much of his time as we wasted ours replanting.

The 15 second Fear Immunity should not start until after the last fear ends. And or make Fear break Instantly upon ANY damage.

Purge was Enhance shammys most used spell in PvP. Being unable to afford to purge off shields means we cannot proc Mana Regen, Maelstrom Weapon, Flurry, Windfurry, Frostbrand, Flametoungue etc... this will drastically reduce our damage in PvP.

Purge needs to Priority dispel Shields first, to alleviate this hidden and no doubt un-considered ramification.