I came. (unholy DK changes)

[liquidrage]

Wait ... Doesnt AMZ also reduce everyone's spell damage taken inside it by 75%?
So even if 25 people inside it take way more damage than 30k, wouldnt it reduce the "overkill" damage aswell from for example Blackout from V&T where everyone stacks and take ONE big hit?

Long CD on it though (but can be perfectly be timed with AMS' 45sec CD ^^)

No. It will take like 30K total. That's EVERYONE combined. The shield is meant for PVP, not bosses. It will not take like 30k x 25. It will absorb a total of like 20-30k dmg or whatever your value comes out to. So if your amz was worth 30, and you and the tank were in it, you each get 15k absorb. It's basically crap and doesn't belong in a main spec (for the 1000th time if you think it will help a specific situation by all means respec into it for that encounter) despite being the bastard love child of Shiira and AK apparently.

ams on the other hand is awesome and one talent point or more is well worth it many times.

[unholyskipper]

wait I'm confused doest this mean that it wont sudden doom wont proc for say scourge strike or festering strike?

[Shiira]

"Sudden Doom now only procs from main hand auto attacks".

Seems pretty clear to me.

[Deleted]

IMO they should just change the glyph to "While in frost or unholy presence your Death Strike heals for additional 50% for each of your disease application active on target (up to 100%)", move Death's Advance to second tier so frost DKs can reach it and have to make a choice between 1 min cd strangulate or mobility buff. The talent should also be nerfed either to blood runes, 80%, -50% snare effect or mix of the above. Feels unreasonable to base it on a resource that's used for main strike, that'd be just passive no brainer hand of freedom

[Apellosine]

don't forget the new awesome major glyph as well. heal for at least 20% of the death knight's health whenever they use death strike? What's not to love, drop a smidge of dps to help out healers during high dmg phases!

[Shiira]

What's not to love, drop a smidge of dps to help out healers during high dmg phases!

If only this mentality could be better appreciated.

On a related note anti magic zone absorbs more damage than death strike heals with that glyph, and for half the rune cost.

[Roose]

right... its still a skill we have to pick up and 4 points worth of talents at that. AMS itself is available to all players. AMZ is not. frost also has chillblains, lichborne/dc self, OaPH, and endless winter.

apparently you just felt like bashing me without looking at the talent trees but its ok i posted them here

Oh ya, I forgot Unholy can't snare w/ desecration, or DC self heal(better than frost), or pick up any frost T2 talents. Why would an Unholy DK want OaPH when they could get total snare removal. No mention was made of having to spend talent points. You can't get new abilities w/ spending points...

You said that I was wrong claiming Unholy has more survivability and I maintain that you are the one who is mistaken. DKs will be all but required to PvP as Unholy unless frost gets something equally amazing as death's advance.

[Mothhive]

wait I'm confused doest this mean that it wont sudden doom wont proc for say scourge strike or festering strike?

Yeah, it just procs from auto attacks, same as now, only now they have to be main hand auto attacks.

[Ssith]

I was actually talking about the combination of the buffs, however on a heavy aoe encounter our diseases end up being around 15-18% of our total damage, a 30% increase on that is very significant for aoe

mighta been mentioned, 6 pages in and all, but we are losing the Mastery that buffs diseases. even reforging it all off our gear, you always end up with some, and it STARTED at 40% - so this is actually a disease damage nerf, not that they're all that good in any single-target situation.

[Shiira]

From the battle.net patch notes:

Sudden Doom is now triggered only from main-hand auto attacks, and is normalized according to weapon speed rather than having a fixed percentage chance.

Looks like it will be ppm.

[Firehorse]

lol everyone is gonna love the dk changes, untill they end up fighting nothing but dks in arenas. Enjoy being no skill Jedis

[Carighan]

and how exactly would you balance the mastery?

By not balancing it.
By making it do something which makes the mathmagicians from EJ pull their hair out, like they love to do with Deep Healing. All it takes is a mastery bonus which's "bonus" is problematic to quantify, by not actually affecting damage directly, or only in specific scenarios.

Now this is just listing ideas which I can think up right now - and most of those are probably unusable in at least either of PvP or PvE - but how about:

Mastery - Swift Demise
Increases your runspeed by 20%, stacking with all other movement speed modifying effects, according to distance between you and your current target, provided that target is affected by your Blood Plague disease. Movement speed bonus increases the further away the target is. Each point of Mastery increases your speed by an additional 2,5%.
(I'd probably use ~30y as the full-bonus distance, adding a sort-of-charge like quality to Outbreak. Should decrease linearily with distance down to melee range, where the bonus is 0.)

Mastery - The Undying
When you die, your corpse will continue the fight for up to 24 seconds. You fight as a ghoul, but you retain most of your own abilities and ratings. Your ghoul will continue to fight by your side during this time. Each point of Mastery increases the time you can keep up the fight by 3 seconds.
(Hey, I loved being able to continue as a ghoul, didn't you? Disabled abilities should be everything with a cooldown above ~30s, IMO. Mostly locking out tanktimers, ghoul summons, Army, Simul, Outbreak, such stuff.)

Mastery - Plaguelord
Your melee attacks siphon life essence from the target, fueling your diseases with additional strength. Each hit increases their damage by a small amount, up to 32% of your total melee attack damage. However, as the foe's life decreases, so does the power you can siphon from it. Each point of mastery increases the extra damage added by up to 4%.
(In other words, while per-tick damage can go up massively - with 12 Mastery it'd be 48% swing-damage per tick per disease once fully stacked, effectively granting you another melee attack every ~2,8s - this works exactly opposite to Shammy Deep Healing. The higher health a target has, the higher one can stack the bonus. Ofc, attacking the target tends to lower it's health...)


Stuff like this.
Now granted, above is either underpowered, overpowered, or will break PvP. But the point is, Mastery doesn't have to be a fancy reading +damagedone. That makes it redundant, may as well remove it and replace it with +damagedone, aka, Str.

[Haven]

I came too. Seriously considering rolling unholy again.

[Tholl]

lol, add that new glyph * Inscription: Glyph of Dark Succor - Causes your Death Strike ability to always restore at least 20% of your maximum health when used while in Frost or Unholy Presence.

let there be light!

My rogue is now going to just /Vanish when I see a Unholy Dk comming at me >.<

[Drakks]

My rogue is now going to just /Vanish when I see a Unholy Dk comming at me >.<

1. Cloak
2. Evasion
3. Dismantle

It's amazing that people think the death strike change makes dk's unkillable. Save the fact it's a melee strike, and has certain requirements.

[Deleted]

Hey
I don't want to make new topic so I'll ask here .... I don't see the scourge strike shadow portion buff on official patch notes on wow.com, anyone can confirm it is buffed on PTR or not ?
Thanks in advance.

[Deleted]

By not balancing it.
By making it do something which makes the mathmagicians from EJ pull their hair out, like they love to do with Deep Healing. All it takes is a mastery bonus which's "bonus" is problematic to quantify, by not actually affecting damage directly, or only in specific scenarios.

Now this is just listing ideas which I can think up right now - and most of those are probably unusable in at least either of PvP or PvE - but how about:

Mastery - Swift Demise
Increases your runspeed by 20%, stacking with all other movement speed modifying effects, according to distance between you and your current target, provided that target is affected by your Blood Plague disease. Movement speed bonus increases the further away the target is. Each point of Mastery increases your speed by an additional 2,5%.
(I'd probably use ~30y as the full-bonus distance, adding a sort-of-charge like quality to Outbreak. Should decrease linearily with distance down to melee range, where the bonus is 0.)

Mastery - The Undying
When you die, your corpse will continue the fight for up to 24 seconds. You fight as a ghoul, but you retain most of your own abilities and ratings. Your ghoul will continue to fight by your side during this time. Each point of Mastery increases the time you can keep up the fight by 3 seconds.
(Hey, I loved being able to continue as a ghoul, didn't you? Disabled abilities should be everything with a cooldown above ~30s, IMO. Mostly locking out tanktimers, ghoul summons, Army, Simul, Outbreak, such stuff.)

Mastery - Plaguelord
Your melee attacks siphon life essence from the target, fueling your diseases with additional strength. Each hit increases their damage by a small amount, up to 32% of your total melee attack damage. However, as the foe's life decreases, so does the power you can siphon from it. Each point of mastery increases the extra damage added by up to 4%.
(In other words, while per-tick damage can go up massively - with 12 Mastery it'd be 48% swing-damage per tick per disease once fully stacked, effectively granting you another melee attack every ~2,8s - this works exactly opposite to Shammy Deep Healing. The higher health a target has, the higher one can stack the bonus. Ofc, attacking the target tends to lower it's health...)


Stuff like this.
Now granted, above is either underpowered, overpowered, or will break PvP. But the point is, Mastery doesn't have to be a fancy reading +damagedone. That makes it redundant, may as well remove it and replace it with +damagedone, aka, Str.

they should just do the mastery like bm and demo warlocks have it.
+hp/dmg on ghoul.

[Foibles]

they should just do the mastery like bm and demo warlocks have it.
+hp/dmg on ghoul.

The person you quoted has stupid ideas for masteries, because it makes it either 100% useless, or impossible to balance.

Your idea is bad because it focuses more damage on passive means, rather than the player having to actually play correctly.

[5648945621]

Unholy just got nerfed to the ground. No point rerolling. Stick to your class please. Ill tell you something if you didn't know: Unholy has so many annoying pvp talents thet you gotta skip half of the dps talents. Which will suck big time for your damage.

Frost and blood is also useless in PvP, unholy will always continue to be the dominant spec because blzz cant fix the other specs