Heroics will and SHOULD be easy next major patch.

[darkpower]

Heroics arent about gearing up, there about teaching you how to play. So your wrong, and i will kick you from my raid after 1 wipe if you fail at interupts, cos you should have learnt how to in heroics. And so where you gonan learn to use your abilties now? You wont learn them in heroics, and you will be kicked from raids instantly for not knowing them.

Only thing they can do is make heroics hard and let everyone access them. Oh wait thats like it is now. Nerfing the heroics will only lead to new players being so much worse then players who been around 1 month longer. ANd therefore will always be behind in the skill curve. And will most likely quit

So...if you're geared to start Heroics, you're geared to start raiding? Is that what I'm getting out of this post?

If it is, your logic is SEVERELY flawed!

[Deleted]

wtb 10-15 minutes hc runs... Running hcs once a day is just plain boring and feels like its taking forever.

[imagine]

Everyone should be capable of doing a heroic even if you are not in a guild, and that is the problem i find these days going without a guild group will mean a massive wipe.

That being said tho i have had a great time with some pugs that did succeed, no offence towards pug's.

But content should be available to everyone of all ages or sizes, just don't down tune it too much.

[Alayea]

I must be one of the few out there that actually liked WotLK. I enjoyed stomping mobs because, hey, why shouldn't I be able to after having progressed through the entire expansion? More time to give my alts some love, anyway. I loved Naxxramas exactly because of its friendliness towards pugs, as my guild at the time was simply going nowhere.

I'll concede the point that it doesn't make sense from a designer's point of view that boss mechanics are able to be ignored. Fair enough. But I'm simply tired of coming across post after post (even when I'm not looking for it) that trashes WotLK to the point of arguing that it should never have existed.

So to repeat myself: I loved WotLK, and I'm not ashamed to admit it.

[Deleted]

Everyone should be capable of doing a heroic even if you are not in a guild, and that is the problem i find these days going without a guild group will mean a massive wipe.

That being said tho i have had a great time with some pugs that did succeed, no offence towards pug's.

But content should be available to everyone of all ages or sizes, just don't down tune it too much.

I usualy run hcs with guildies but I've done few pugs aswell. And I think I have been lucky so far because I always get a group with ppl that actually know what they're doing (know how to CC, interupt, dispel and have the balls to ask the tactics when they dont know them.). So its not only about "only guild groups can finish hcs successfuly", people should just learn how to play their class before queueing to random hcs. -.-

[Coldkil]

if you greatly overgear the content, it should be steamroll, at least regarding damage dealt/taken. mechanics won't change, so it's natural, assuming the use of both hands and the presence of the brain, that heroics will become easier and easier every patch.

[Deleted]

Try taking your meds kid, heroics aren't hard, they weren't hard the 2nd reset after people had run normals to gain the gear and LEARN the fights / pulls..! Raids still posses a challenge with some bosses.., you're rant is indicating it should become WotlK style once more, looking at the patch notes Blizz is slowly already going down that patch again with their fucking retarded nerf-hammer despite admitting that exp was a mistake of epic proportions. Some of the class changes they made, makes it look like they're hittin' the crack-pipes HARD!

If this is the result of all the badz, or mentaly disabled as I tend to refer to them, streaming various forums down about how hard n' unfair the game had become.., then fuckin gj Blizz, perhaps once this exp is over you can do yet another post like the one Gc made stating how you in hindsight can see that the changes you made was a mistake.
It strikes me as very odd that one of your game designers can openly admit that things are perfectly fine as long as people use some common sense n' worked as a group, yet 1 month into this exp n' you're already swingin the nerf-hammer like there's no tomorrow.., so many players have given thoughts about coming back after quitting with WotlK due to the intensity n' challenge of this exp, if their eyes land on today's patch-blue they're probably already starting to forget coming back.

I agree whole-hearted with you, which is weird as I don't normally agree with Undead, the whole reason I got excited about Cata was the way they made out the challenge of heroics on the initial level. With this recent patch I can honestly see them returning to WotLK mechanics with the exception of LK was "durrr ama gonna stand hurr and shoot me lazie beams" which has hindered a lot of players judgement who began to raid at that expansion.

I enjoy the challenge of current heroics as my guild cant quite raid yet, so we have certain limitations. I like the challenge of the mechanics sometimes requiring tanks to thinks, dps others.

On a side note. Go Go Worgen Swift Flight Form

[Nibbin]

Heroics arent about gearing up, there about teaching you how to play. So your wrong, and i will kick you from my raid after 1 wipe if you fail at interupts, cos you should have learnt how to in heroics. And so where you gonan learn to use your abilties now? You wont learn them in heroics, and you will be kicked from raids instantly for not knowing them.

Only thing they can do is make heroics hard and let everyone access them. Oh wait thats like it is now. Nerfing the heroics will only lead to new players being so much worse then players who been around 1 month longer. ANd therefore will always be behind in the skill curve. And will most likely quit

I was going to post BUT you said everything I was going to say. The OP is wrong. Heroics should be hard to teach people how to play and be ready for raid content.

[Deleted]

if you greatly overgear the content, it should be steamroll, at least regarding damage dealt/taken. mechanics won't change, so it's natural, assuming the use of both hands and the presence of the brain, that heroics will become easier and easier every patch.

Exactly. No nerfs needed.

[killzwitch]

Not bothered, I ran with a guild so the heroics were easy even at 333 - given cc was still used at this point.

But whenever the guild was busy or I decided to go mental and lay my life on the line with PuGs I rarely finished instance.

"Wut iz cc"
"Lol, I don't even have bars let alone put spels on em!"
"Wot does canon do?"
"OMG a frog, kill it!"
"Noobs! run from bluerain and greenlight on floor dats bad!"
"L2get mana"
"I dunt this on my ova character - I haf 11 85s on dis server and my dad is a GM"

This change is awesome, if you want challenging content in 5mans (lol) then go and do the achievements in every instance and get a cool drake like me =) You cannot expect blizz to perfectly gauge content difficult for a RANGE of player skill to fall into 2 neat categories of Hc and Normal.

I'm not elite but jesus H christ.

[ComputerNerd]

Heroics are meant to be a preparation for raiding, not just a gear or points supply.
They are meant to be hard, they are meant to make you learn your class, they are meant to teach you fundamental skills you should be using in raids.
If you think they are too difficult, then you are not ready for raiding.

[Chamass]

Try taking your meds kid, heroics aren't hard, they weren't hard the 2nd reset after people had run normals to gain the gear and LEARN the fights / pulls..! Raids still posses a challenge with some bosses.., you're rant is indicating it should become WotlK style once more, looking at the patch notes Blizz is slowly already going down that patch again with their fucking retarded nerf-hammer despite admitting that exp was a mistake of epic proportions. Some of the class changes they made, makes it look like they're hittin' the crack-pipes HARD!

If this is the result of all the badz, or mentaly disabled as I tend to refer to them, streaming various forums down about how hard n' unfair the game had become.., then fuckin gj Blizz, perhaps once this exp is over you can do yet another post like the one Gc made stating how you in hindsight can see that the changes you made was a mistake.
It strikes me as very odd that one of your game designers can openly admit that things are perfectly fine as long as people use some common sense n' worked as a group, yet 1 month into this exp n' you're already swingin the nerf-hammer like there's no tomorrow.., so many players have given thoughts about coming back after quitting with WotlK due to the intensity n' challenge of this exp, if their eyes land on today's patch-blue they're probably already starting to forget coming back.

If u read the patchnotes carefully, you will see that overall there are about as many bosses getting buffs as there are bosses getting nerfs. What they are trying to do is not nerf the heroics, but bring em closer in line to eachother.
They are also removing a part of the major trial and error learning thats in place atm, by making key elements a little easier to see and understand

There are dungeons where getting passed the 1st few bosses is harder then clearing the rest (stonecore/SFK/ToT for example), which is not their intend

A good example of these changes are the following 2 notes:
Slabhide
- The ground phase lasts longer and has fewer stalactites. (Means there is less hiding spots, so u need to actually DO something)

Asaad
- Skyfall Stars are now summoned to help him defeat players. (More overall damage)
- Static Cling has had its cast time increased to 1.25 seconds, up from 1. (More time to react)

Overall dungeons are only gonna get easier with gear...
But atleast you wont see people leave group just because they got assigned to a grim batol run or a unfinished Halls of Origination

[darkpower]

I was going to post BUT you said everything I was going to say. The OP is wrong. Heroics should be hard to teach people how to play and be ready for raid content.

He's saying that you should already be geared up for the raids, though, once you get into heroics, which is not going to ever be the case. There are upgrades from the normal 5-mans that are available only in heroic 5-mans that will get you ready for raids. If Heroics are just as hard as entry level raiding, and the gear you get from Heroics are not in any way important, then what's the point of running Heroics to begin with? You and Athor said it's to prepare you for raid mechanics, but by your logic, if I'm ready to do a heroic 5man, I'm ready to do raiding, so why bother with the heroics if I can just skip a step? And why would we want any of the drops that come from heroics if we don't even need them (hell, why would Blizz even bother OFFERING us the heroic gear or the heroic instances in the first place if that was their intentions)?

Heroics should be challenging, and should be the next step up from normal, but they shouldn't be at the same level as raiding because it's supposed to be in between normal 5-mans and the raiding (which is what Blizz has always intended the heroics to be).

[Device]

ITT: Bad players who can't find a guild because they suck and thus fail at heroics

[Diatribe]

Heroics are already easy, go in a guild group and see. Once you hit 340 average they then start the trend toward faceroll, once at 346 you never need to use CC again (except on rare trash packs) and once you hit 350+ it's steamroll again.

And I'm very much ok with this.

Outgearing the instance to make it a faceroll is fine. Nerfing it to make it a faceroll to those in the bare minimum (if not close to it) iLevel needed is another. I'm 347 right now and outside of a couple "Yeah, we're going to need some CC here", it's completely easy to do heroics. Folks who want it easier than this are BAD players. Period.

[Rea]

Why should hcs be easy? That is never the intention of a hc.
Raid hcs are HARD and so should dungeon hcs be. It is that the dungeon hcs are already way to easy that we can get ilvl346 items to soon, that is the problem.

[Cypher0]

I just enjoy staying awake while healing heroics.

Towards the end of Wrath, when I did a late night heroic, I literally started falling asleep. I NEVER fall asleep at my computer.

[Paladin885]

I just don't see what good nerfing Heroics is. If you can't do a simple heroic you have no place in raids.

^this.

I do heroic raids so the only time heroics were challenging was back when I was under 333 geared. Now they're no differnt that wrath heroics, even with pugs.

[Naoto]

As a tank in heroic gear I breeze through them without any need for CC and without ever dying, hard? no, you just need the gear to do them, hell if you think 5 mans are hard you should just quit the game now, the only thing making heroics are are the abundance of morons doing them, but then again if everyone was good and had the slightest clue how to play the game it would all go smoothly and be pretty easy.

I don't get this need to QQ about everything that's remotely hard, scrubs will always be scrubs.

[Snowy]

I just enjoy staying awake while healing heroics.

Towards the end of Wrath, when I did a late night heroic, I literally started falling asleep. I NEVER fall asleep at my computer.

See, there is thing called 'out gearing' and when you 'out gear' something then it becomes easier. It is even easier when the rest of your team 'out gears' it. In Wrath, when you were in Tier 9/10 then you drastically out geared Heroics since they were meant for people that have yet to get Tier 7 gear. Your complaining that Wrath heroics were a snooze fest at the end is the same as a level 60 healer complaining how easy it is to heal other level 60 players through Scarlet Monastery.

Added note. Did you and your ilk know that when you are in Tier 12 gear, that the Tier 11 raids will be easier than they are now. When you are in Tier 13, the Tier 11 raids will be even easier and in conjunction, those Heroics will be a cake walk as well. Weird how the more you out gear something, the easier it becomes and this has held true through all of WoW's life.

Also, their latest 'nerfs' are nothing as they also BUFFED things as well. But ignoring that they buffed the difficulty better suites the need to whine that they are nerfing rather than balancing things out to how Blizzard wants them.