1. #1

    Disc raid healing: Crit much more important after 4.0.6?

    From the latest 4.0.6 patch notes:

    "Divine Aegis: Critical effects from Prayer of Healing now award a bonus amount in addition to the default, always-proc Divine Aegis effect."

    Firstly, does anyone have information about how much this bonus amount is? Clearly such information will affect the answer to my next question, which is:

    With this new effect from Divine Aegis from PoH, and with PoH being our main AoE healing spell, will this mean that crit becomes a lot more important? I've been reforging and gemming to avoid crit so far...

  2. #2
    I think they also nerfed PoH quite heavily, so, well..

    Prayer of Healing effectiveness has been reduced by 15%.

  3. #3
    Indeed, but what effect will that have on the utility of crit? I guess that it will make crit even more important!

  4. #4
    As I have always seen it, balancing al stats is most important. You need a certain amount of crit, but no need to stack it. You also need haste so you can cast PoH faster. Mastery is also really important for bigger absorbs...

  5. #5
    Yes, and the tricky thing is knowing how to balance them, hence the question. Up to now, crit was our least important stat. The question is, will it be much more important than it was after 4.0.6 (for raid healing)?

  6. #6
    I'll leave the math to the experts but yes I can actually see crit>haste= mastery happening for raid healing. At least there should be some kid of a crit cap?

  7. #7
    Mastery only gives 2,5% stronger absorbs.
    With almost the same ratings you can get 1% crit or haste.
    With crit and haste you really get 1% more effective healing done per crit percentage.
    But with mastery you only get 0,75% more effective healing done per mastery point.

    So crit > mastery any time while raidhealing.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Nesco View Post
    So crit > mastery any time while raidhealing.
    Will that still be true after the patch, when shields will be doubled in strength?

  9. #9
    PoH is NOT as you much as you guys has been made to belive, you gotta see that it's the base heal and not toal heal that's reduced.

    OP: Might be, either that or mastery will be even more loved. I'm guessing for Mastery tbh

  10. #10
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by ContentsMayVary View Post
    Will that still be true after the patch, when shields will be doubled in strength?
    Only pw:s is doubled. DA procs are the same so yes it will still hold.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Ferin View Post
    Only pw:s is doubled. DA procs are the same so yes it will still hold.
    Ah, but my question was in relation to Nesco's comment: "But with mastery you only get 0,75% more effective healing done per mastery point" where he's talking about healing per mastery point compared to healing per crit point. That DOES relate to PW:S's doubling in strength.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by ContentsMayVary View Post
    Ah, but my question was in relation to Nesco's comment: "But with mastery you only get 0,75% more effective healing done per mastery point" where he's talking about healing per mastery point compared to healing per crit point. That DOES relate to PW:S's doubling in strength.
    By the same logic wouldn't haste "cap" be more beneficial as well? The more heals I get out = the faster I can get a shield out = Profit?

    I think I'll still be aiming for ~1 second cast time on heal, then crit/mastery after that. I think with the buff to PW:S though that I could easily see mastery pulling ahead of crit (which is how I already see it, to be honest. I dont like factoring in to much reliance on crit when I can't control what is and isn't going to crit and when)

    On second thought, I guess my example is more useful for tank healing than raid healing, since I wouldn't exactly be spamming heal on all of the raid member at once. Herp de derp!

  13. #13
    Deleted
    Crit / spirit i guess

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Azelric View Post
    By the same logic wouldn't haste "cap" be more beneficial as well? The more heals I get out = the faster I can get a shield out = Profit?
    Well if your shield hasn't yet been absorbed by the time Weakened Soul has gone away, all that haste is wasted (assuming you have so much haste that you could cast heals that fast). But of course, as you already said, this is more relevant to tank healing.

    However, this has got off-topic slightly - the real question was if crit was going to become more important due to the effect it would have on PoH proccing an extra heal when it crits.

    I guess it's all a moot point until we know how much healing the proc will give. If it was, say, an extra 50% healing it would be hugely important, but if only 5%, not so much...
    Last edited by ContentsMayVary; 2011-01-12 at 02:45 PM.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by ContentsMayVary View Post
    Well if your shield hasn't yet been absorbed by the time Weakened Soul has gone away, all that haste is wasted (assuming you have so much haste that you could cast heals that fast). But of course, as you already said, this is more relevant to tank healing.
    Yeah, Im curious to see how bubbles fare with the update. As it stands I am at 1.09s cast time for heal and I've never had a bubble last so long that I have no weakened soul on a tank, but the bubble still hasn't popped. If bubbles get to the point they are lasting that long, I'll happily move my haste -> Mastery. I'm still iffy on crit. RNG makes me twitch enough already.

    Then again this is off topic to the OP (Sorry!) I'll go think and possibly make my own thread on tank healing latter.

  16. #16
    Crit is RNG, and relying on it for raid healing is pretty blah. Even at "sizable amounts", even at 50%, what happens to the people that get crits and don't need them, versus the people that don't get them but do need them?

    Even with the double-dip, it doesn't make crit better than Mastery's guaranteed return, let alone Haste.
    ~Former Priest/Guild Wars 2 Moderator~
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  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Kelesti View Post
    Crit is RNG, and relying on it for raid healing is pretty blah. Even at "sizable amounts", even at 50%, what happens to the people that get crits and don't need them, versus the people that don't get them but do need them?
    Which is why I haven't specced for crit at all so far.

    However, what you're saying is that Blizzard's fix for PoH in Disc isn't useful, because it relies on crit. So essentially, disc's raid healing utility is going to be horribly nerfed with the reduction in PoH healing in 4.0.6.

  18. #18
    Deleted
    I would say that Critt IS RNG, but as disc priest is a mitigation spec, and that I find critt really good at a certain amount. Like most have stated, a balance between your stats. Since the most of cataclysms raids got " predictable " damage and where people mostly aren't topped off I find that RNG being a huge boost due to it not being completely wasted since the damage is and will be there.

    As for on topic, keeping a balance between your stats will still be the way to go as disc. Haste for better cast time, mastery for better spell potency and critt as your RNG boost to throughput. A good amount of critt + Inner focus will actually make a difference in the long run.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Kelesti View Post
    Crit is RNG, and relying on it for raid healing is pretty blah. Even at "sizable amounts", even at 50%, what happens to the people that get crits and don't need them, versus the people that don't get them but do need them?

    Even with the double-dip, it doesn't make crit better than Mastery's guaranteed return, let alone Haste.
    Yup. I agree with this. For a raid healing disc priest [again, why? But I digress], you MUST be turreted to effectively raid heal, and with as much movement as most fights demand, haste is necessary for you to stay within 15% of other raid healers [given equal item budgets and skill]. Without stacked haste, you'd be lucky to get within 20% on heavy movement fights.

    We currently do not have the item budget to push CRIT, HST, & SPI to their effective thresholds for T11. In this case, HST is a far more desirable stat to stack, considering a disc priest must be turreted to raid heal.

  20. #20
    They should have made DA our Mastery! Thats what it comes down to.
    *All Heals will add a Shield equal to %Mastery of the Heal
    This would have been equal to Holy's mastery of %Amount Heal as Heal over Time.

    Right now mastery for Disc is pretty crap. You have to Crit to get your Mastery to actually be usable. So even the triage (single target) healing is bad. Disc has been reduced from PW:S Spam to PoH Spam

    If you were to chart the stats out you would look at it this way.
    Int increases all abilities across the board - this is your greatest throughput stat.
    Spirit is for longevity.
    Crit increases chance to proc DA
    Mastery increases the proc of DA (and DA on PoH)
    Haste increases the amount casts done - your second greatest throughput stat.

    Because Crit is RNG and Mastery scales much lower then anything else (reforged all my items to Mastery as a test and only got to 37%, that is only 10% more then what I could I have base line) that leaves you with Int and Haste. The more haste, the more spirit you will need. So the 3 stats you focus on are Int > Spirit > Haste with Crit and Mastery being equal.

    You can not think Crit and Mastery as true throughput stat like DPS can. DPS Crits can not be wasted, Healers can (and more then likely are, even on single target healing) loose throughput to over healing. Disc's Mastery is useless with out Crit, thus making Mastery a "crap" stat also.
    I don't heal STUPID, Stupid SHOULD HURT!
    Syntyche - Disc Priest

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