New Unholy talent for DKs, "Death's Advance."

[Kelekona]

I'm just a little eager to get some insight from someone on maybe why Blizzard chose to add this talent into the game.

Death's Advance (new talent): While both Unholy Runes are depleted, movement-impairing effects cannot reduce the death knight below
75/100% of normal movement speed.

I personally do not understand this addition at all. Chains of Ice can no longer be dispelled, and by staying in Unholy presence, a Death Knight runs as fast as any other player does with speed increasing talents/gems/enchants, with the exception of a druid in cat form(as feral) or in travel form. They have Death Grip, allowing them to bring an enemy closer to them that is attempting to kite/run away from them, along with a ghoul stun/charge(if empowered) to give themselves a few seconds to close some distance. Add in the fact that their diseases and pets(ghoul/gargoyle) do an extreme amount of damage, meaning they themselves don't actually NEED to be in melee range to continue to do damage.
I'm just trying to comprehend the reasoning behind this buff, and what issue it's meant to fix.

[Sinner563]

Because Blizzard have gone insane in the last patch.

See > Ice lance buff.

[Bohedral]

Deathknights had mobility issues. This is one way to fix it.

[Kelekona]

Yea, I saw the increase damage to Ice Lance, and the increase damage on Frostbolt. The reasoning behind that was to stop mages from wanting to only get a target frozen to spam ice lance, and having their main casted ability be a secondary choice. they roughly lowered the damage caused to frozen targets by 15%. That change will ensure that Frostbolt hits harder, and Ice Lance isn't the #1 go to spell all the time.

---------- Post added 2011-01-12 at 07:37 AM ----------

Deathknights had mobility issues. This is one way to fix it.

That's what I don't understand. I mean, I don't play a Death Knight, at all, but from PvPing on all of my other characters, It's so damn annoying to actually get away from a DK. I don't see the mobility issues.

[Thes]

Dk's had mobility issues, and also -

Ice Lance has NOT been buffed. Read all the other changes too.

[BurningStick]

Because Blizzard have gone insane in the last patch.

See > Ice lance buff.

Icelance was nerfed, go read patch notes.

[Kelekona]

Dk's had mobility issues, and also -

Ice Lance has NOT been buffed. Read all the other changes too.

Deep Freeze damage done has been reduced by 20%.
Fingers of Frost can no longer be dispelled and now also increases Ice Lance damage by 15%.
Frost Specialization now only grants 2 base points of mastery (instead of 8), reducing all Frost damage to frozen targets by 15% from previous values. However, Frost Specialization now increases base Frostbolt damage by 15%.

Ice Lance damage was buffed, but all frost damage to frozen targets was reduced by the same amount. So damage of Ice Lance will be more then it is currently against non-frozen targets, and the same against frozen targets. The damage of the ability WAS buffed, but a change to mastery negates it.

[Deleted]

lol at people going on about Ice Lance, maths is hard kk?

Frost Specialisation removed 6 mastery which is 15% on frozen targets. Ergo Ice Lance does 85% of its previous damage. When you have Fingers of Frost IL damage is increased by 15%, 85% + 15% = 97.75%. So Ice Lance got nerfed on more than one place.

[Deleted]

This "fix" is totally pointless. It helps DKs stick on target, that's it.

We already have Desecration for that, this is just Desecration squared.

What we need is a way to get on target once we've been successfully peeled, which will still happen. This buff doesn't give immunities to immobilises.

DKs have trouble getting to target and this buff just doesn't help. We can't use UH runes except when in melee range and, thanks to UH runes causing Desecration already, using them already gives us what this new buff does. The only difference being it's positive for the DK rather than negative for the enemy and it stacks with what we already have.

Someone suggested this on another board, reverse the damn buff. Make it so that when both UH runes are off cooldown we can't be affected by snares. Won't be up instantly after a peel because runes take time to cooldown so peeling still has viability for enemies and it gives us a reliable method to close. It also doesn't make us an annoying plate wearing, 2h wielding version of an enhance shaman; zooming about in melee range regardless of mobility debuffs while the enemy can hardly move.

The only way this move can stay in game as it is will be if they remove Desecration, we'll then be right back to where we started. It also doesn't seem likely as they've just made NS cause Desecration too.

Gah!

[Varabently]

I haven't even seen any dks in arena so its hard to say. Maybe that says a lot about their viability? Or about my lack of arena this season.

[icecreamtruck]

Because all you had to do to win vs a Dk was to slow him.

[Kelekona]

Because all you had to do to win vs a Dk was to slow him.

So they only way one of the classes with the most slows and immunities to magic was to slow them as well? I don't understand how that works.

[elseagoat]

So they only way one of the classes with the most slows and immunities to magic was to slow them as well? I don't understand how that works.

Look at all these garbage players acting like DKs are some sort of super mobile, CC immune PvP gods. You got your necrotic strike nerf, thank god, so your partner can actually heal you, now shut up for christ's sake. I played a 2v2 last night with a 2400 resto druid, we were up against Holy Paladin Surv Hunter. I think I got off 3 Necrotic strike on the hunter over the course of 4 minutes, target swapping was not an option, I was snared the entire game and the Hunter could pop escape tools faster than my Druid could dispel, and I was even using Death Grip on cooldown as a gap closer instead of an interrupt. We ended up winning because I trained down the paladin with necrotic strike. We won due to a skilless trash fest overpowered ability and a retard mode strat. Now that necrotic strike has been handled, lets worry about how I'm going to win while using skill when I can get permanently rooted by Frost Traps for an entire game (frost traps go through AMS, btw, root included. If you see the hunter drop it and you AMS as you run over it, you get snared and rooted).


Now, Death's Advance is great and all, but it doesn't help me get to that frost mage at the beginning of the fight, which is really where the problem is. Once I get to him, fantastic, I cant get snared, but then he just roots me and walks away, my buff falls off because my runes come up, and then i have to very, very, very slowly try to get to him again. This is not helpful. We were already good at sticking to everything but frost mages, and this wont help us with frost mages, our problems are reaching the target when we are kited.

They need to reverse the effect. When you have at least one Unholy Rune available, you cannot run at less than 75%/100% movement speed. That way, you reach your target easily, then you worry about sticking to them because you buff drops when you reach them.

[Powell]

god forbid a frost mage can counter a DK...
they'v been a bane in my warriors existance for as long as i can remember, and whenever we get a buff to stand a chance, it gets changed back next patch <.<

Face it, Mages are anti-melee.

reversing the effect would be one way to fix it, but then against frostmages you will just keep your unholy rune off CD.
You can have as many gap closers as you want -> points towards warriors - you're still not gonna kill a mage.

[lexonio]

Add in the fact that their diseases and pets(ghoul/gargoyle) do an extreme amount of damage, meaning they themselves don't actually NEED to be in melee range to continue to do damage.

Honestly, get some grip on things that are going on, our diseases are utter rubbish when it comes to damage.
And by the way our pet is usually controlled even easier then we are.

[Zauber]

Deathknights had mobility issues. This is one way to fix it.

Looking at RP regen under movement impairing effects from pvp set and immunity to them in unholy tree I begin to think that those aren't their only issues

[Khiva]

Unholy of all specs needed extra mobility the least with diseases, Ghoul, DnD, Death Coil, Desecration. They should have gotten something else, like Unholy Blight snaring.
If any of them needed snare immunity, it was Blood. If they had gotten this one talent they'd be miles closer to PvP viable.

[Firehorse]

Deathknights had mobility issues. This is one way to fix it.

Bad dks had mobility issues, bad dks.

[DomBomb1]

Because Blizzard have gone insane in the last patch.

See > Ice lance buff.

The ice lance change was not a buff. They nerfed the base damage and increased the FoF-proc-Ice-Lance to compensate

[Firehorse]

Look at all these garbage players acting like DKs are some sort of super mobile, CC immune PvP gods. You got your necrotic strike nerf, thank god, so your partner can actually heal you, now shut up for christ's sake. I played a 2v2 last night with a 2400 resto druid, we were up against Holy Paladin Surv Hunter. I think I got off 3 Necrotic strike on the hunter over the course of 4 minutes, target swapping was not an option, I was snared the entire game and the Hunter could pop escape tools faster than my Druid could dispel, and I was even using Death Grip on cooldown as a gap closer instead of an interrupt. We ended up winning because I trained down the paladin with necrotic strike. We won due to a skilless trash fest overpowered ability and a retard mode strat. Now that necrotic strike has been handled, lets worry about how I'm going to win while using skill when I can get permanently rooted by Frost Traps for an entire game (frost traps go through AMS, btw, root included. If you see the hunter drop it and you AMS as you run over it, you get snared and rooted).


Now, Death's Advance is great and all, but it doesn't help me get to that frost mage at the beginning of the fight, which is really where the problem is. Once I get to him, fantastic, I cant get snared, but then he just roots me and walks away, my buff falls off because my runes come up, and then i have to very, very, very slowly try to get to him again. This is not helpful. We were already good at sticking to everything but frost mages, and this wont help us with frost mages, our problems are reaching the target when we are kited.

They need to reverse the effect. When you have at least one Unholy Rune able, yavailou cannot run at less than 75%/100% movement speed. That way, you reach your target easily, then you worry about sticking to them because you buff drops when you reach them.

Lol i love all the garbage dks acting like they don't have a way to counter classes. I'm sorry you have to use your runes to control a target rather than blowing him up. "but i want to pew pew big numbers, cc is no fun 0.o" Your a melee, its your job to avoid getting snared or to counter a snare with a snare.