New Unholy talent for DKs, "Death's Advance."

[Avatar Killer]

Frost gets a 3 sec root at the cost of using a HB and unholy gets a license to kill at the cost of nothing.

UH has to make sure its runes are GONE as to not be able to apply another ability. its not exactly nothing. Sure you use the ability and then you get the snare removal but you are forced to down the rune at any cost to get that removal. its not free by any means. Though frost does need some kind of "mobility fix"

[unholyskipper]

well we had trouble with mobility blizz ended up being really nice i thought all they would add would be the icebound buff but this death advance thing was also a nice upgrade we can not kill frost mages (isnt the definition of a dk mage killer?)

[Avatar Killer]

well we had trouble with mobility blizz ended up being really nice i thought all they would add would be the icebound buff but this death advance thing was also a nice upgrade we can not kill frost mages (isnt the definition of a dk mage killer?)

removing a stun and making us immune to stuns is nice, but the real issue was never stuns it was slows. Deaths Advance only applies to UH dks. it "fixed mobility" at the cost of reducing PVP to 1 spec. Hardly a fix.
no the definition of DK is not mage killer

[Roose]

UH has to make sure its runes are GONE as to not be able to apply another ability. its not exactly nothing. Sure you use the ability and then you get the snare removal but you are forced to down the rune at any cost to get that removal. its not free by any means. Though frost does need some kind of "mobility fix"

NS spam makes unholy runes all but stay on CD. Why I say free. Worst case scenario you have to blow a rune dropping a DnD, but no DK should ever have an issue with unholy runes not being on CD. Death's advance does not make you sacrifice damage in order to use it.

As a frosty troll, I will make the changes work for me and depend on my racial and talent to help with snares and roots. The IBF change will also help immensely against the classes that can snare/root and stun.

[Avatar Killer]

IBF does nothing at all against root/snares in any way. besides that if you want to not sacrifice damage there is a glyph for CoI that makes it do damage if you are THAT worried about it. Always an end around. Though it may not be something you consider it is still available to correct the deficiency you provided.

[Deleted]

Id say the range glyph on DG will be mandatory next patch. DND+DG+PS/SS/NS will be our clunky hand of freedom

[Trollslaughter]

omg. Dks are to op now just imaging if ele shaman is attacking him and does frost shock then it wouldn't work. :O :O :O omg :O omg. nerf pvp!

[Roose]

IBF does nothing at all against root/snares in any way. besides that if you want to not sacrifice damage there is a glyph for CoI that makes it do damage if you are THAT worried about it. Always an end around. Though it may not be something you consider it is still available to correct the deficiency you provided.

No IBF does nothing for root/snares, but it is awesome for "the classes that can snare/root and stun." You know, mages, rogues, druids, warriors, and others I am missing. The synergy gained from the new talent and change to IBF will be rather nice. Glyph chains of ice? No thanks, I am not "that" worried.

[Flaks]

Its kind of like nearly every class has something with makes the move more efficient, Warrior Charge, Mage Blink, Warlock teleport, Druid Transforms, Shamans wolf... and maybe the Only ones who don't have is Priest and Death Knight.

Death grip.

Death's advance is not necessary. Especially since warrior and druid mobility got nerfed and frost mage snares/roots probably will too.

[Avatar Killer]

death grip isn't a change. a change was implied and quoted by blizzard. they were going to change the current mobility issue which only death's advance did. IBF is a sorta change to that but does nothing for roots and snares.
since roots and snares are much more easily applied at a much higher frequency and was the real issues DKs have had since the beginning only Death's Advance speaks in favor of that line and since it isn't obtainable by frost it doesn't speak to DKs overall it only speaks to UH DKs. If it was a tier 1 or 2 ability then it would be a louder voice towards what they said they were going to address.

[icecreamtruck]

Its "Death's Advance", not "Death's Advance.".

Its "useless spam", not "a good post". Don't spam. It gets you infractions that may lead to a suspension. -Nye

[Magnusdragon]

I think its nice because you would be able to put a talent into DA and put the 2 talents in desecration into something else since it essentially does the same thing. Plus, i like to keep chains up depending on the class i'm facing so their speed isn't the issue, its mine. This coupled with the change to mastery makes me a happy camper

[Dedranis]

You people wanna complain about dks getting a very miniscule buff to help them with mobility? How about warriors? I personally think that Heroic Leap is a little op at times. That and any class double teamed by Warrior/rogue or feral druid doesn't stand a chance because they will just get stun locked to death. And pallies, don't even get me started on pallies.
"Hey pally I'm gonna take you down to 20% hp so you can just bubble and full heal, then kick my ass while constantly keeping your hp near full." Dks were certainly at a slight disadvantage in pvp, regardless of the person's skill and knowledge of the class.

[Deleted]

Because Blizzard have gone insane in the last patch.

See > Ice lance buff.

I see you're rather insane, because it isn't a buff, it's a nerf.

[Drakks]

Death grip.

Death's advance is not necessary. Especially since warrior and druid mobility got nerfed and frost mage snares/roots probably will too.

Tell you what, when warrior and druid mobility is tied to a single 25 (when talented) second CD.. then we'll talk. As it stands right now if a warrior or rogue (exclude ret pallies for now, because they suck) sits on me I am going no where and taking massive damage. If I sit on either a rogue or warrior not only can both escape but I'm blowing primary runes to keep them in place with limits my damage (certainly more prevalent for frost, then unholy).

Again, the problem with DK mobility starts and stops with the fact that EVERYONE snares and/or roots now. If we can only counter this every 25 seconds, we're going to remain the easiest of the melee to kite. We also lack a disarm, which means we can even fend off another melee if we get focued (or, in shorter terms: stop the reapplication of another melee snare).

Death's Advance is silly for unholy though, since 2 of their 3 primary strikes proc desecrated ground... and the frost idea is just dumb beyond measure. Drop DG to 20 seconds base CD (no talents to lower) and give it a 1 second stun component (akin to charge). Make AMS work like it does, as well as remove all movement effects (physical or magic) and keep it on the same timer. Then give frost a disarm on the same CD as ghoul stun for unholy.

[Tyrean]

Aside from the trolling there is some interesting discussion here. I am wondering while I am reading this what was wrong with chains before that they remove it and then after the fact add in all these clunky and confusing mechanics to do the same thing? What was so wrong with a 90% snare that dropped 10% a second? It allowed me to close gaps in short bursts and also kept me from keeping them perma slowed without drastically decreasing my damage output.

Now, I must say that I don't enjoy being chain spam bot in 3v3 and nothing else, but I also hate it when I am sitting in instant root, shaman totem root, hunter root, the myriad of ways a mage an root, arms war root, rogue 70% slow (basically a root). I am not getting any help at all against the one thing that makes it hard for me to stay in melee all the freaking roots! I don't care about snares, I have my own snare! Nothing irritates me more than getting a warrior low and he hamspams me to root in place and then leaps out of the way to get healed up while I stand there with my thumb up my plate while I wait for DG to come off cooldown or the snare to break.

Also, have you guys looked at the calcs for the unholy snare talent? The tree is so bloated, you have to give something up to get that. I would rather get rid of stupid mechanic and just go back to our original design, we can close gaps with a decaying root that when applied lowers our damage output. Why is that so broken that they had to change it?

[Roose]

Also, have you guys looked at the calcs for the unholy snare talent? The tree is so bloated, you have to give something up to get that. I would rather get rid of stupid mechanic and just go back to our original design, we can close gaps with a decaying root that when applied lowers our damage output. Why is that so broken that they had to change it?

The original DK design was extremely OP and CoI were a huge part of it. Would the old CoI be different now that DKs have had so many other changes? Most likely. I know that CoI floored me when DKs first came out. All they needed was to put a CD on it and it would have been different, but no. Old CoI made it all but impossible to escape a DK.

I guess what I am trying to say is that nobody wants to see a return of the true "hero" class.

[Tyrean]

Well, yes I can keep someone snared above the normal 50% that most classes get for at most 4 seconds at the cost of a frost rune. What does that mean for Unholy? Not much unfortunately. It means we break some festering pairs and if you map it out it means less damage later, but if I have 4 Death runes and 2 Unholy it does not affect my output much. However, when do I need the snare above 50%? When I am trying to close a gap. If I am already on them, they are most likely not getting away from me unless I get peeled. Then I can regain once every 25 seconds at the best. The 90% snare was my tool to close gaps because I don't have access to other gap closers.

I would like to know how having a 90% snare that reduces 10% a second as a gap closer is worse than having snare immunity once I am on a target? So basically it is like Blizzard has said that 90% snare is too good because you can't get away from me... then later says that we need a way to not get kited so they make us impossible to snare reliably? That does not make a lot of sense to me.

[Roose]

I would like to know how having a 90% snare that reduces 10% a second as a gap closer is worse than having snare immunity once I am on a target? So basically it is like Blizzard has said that 90% snare is too good because you can't get away from me... then later says that we need a way to not get kited so they make us impossible to snare reliably? That does not make a lot of sense to me.

What I was trying to say is that the old CoI had a synergy with all of the other OPness that was DKs out of the gate. The old CoI should not be as game changing now due to many other balances. Frost is actually getting a notch above old CoI with the 100% root. We will just have to see how things work out.

[Deleted]

It still kinda anti-synergizes with haste and RE/RC.