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  1. #301
    wat r u tlkin bout dud

  2. #302
    It's not only about English. There is the same problem in russian language and I'm sure in all other languages too.
    I see 2 reasons of it.

    1. Forums and chats are informal in their mass. And people tend to shorten words in favor of typing time. I personally see no problem with that like in speech we always shorten some words and it's ok in informal enviroment. Typing 'u' instead of 'you', the famous 'l2p' (my keyboard would broke if I had to write it right each time someone post a bullshit).

    2. Kids like to mock at language. It's really fun at first but then when you tired of it you realize that it doesn't stop. And it starts to annoy. As I said as people grow they will back to normal language. You'll just have to ignore some new kids' language inventions.

  3. #303
    Quote Originally Posted by Steavz View Post
    I know a lot of people don't care about proper grammar (in their native language no less). You have to understand though, you sound ridiculous when you spell things improperly, use/don't use proper punctuation, or spl like ur txting. But if you could actually hear what it sounds like, you'd sound like this...
    OK, I'm going to be an ass here, because the whole point of this thread appears to be just that. In your post you failed to use a required definite article, have a dangling particle, and began a sentence with "but". All of that in three sentences. According to my inner English teacher your grammar is atrocious. That said, I understood you perfectly, and have no trouble replying to the meat and intention of your post. You could argue that the mistakes you made were related to relatively obscure rules of grammar. You'd be right. That's not the point.

    Everyone has a certainly level of skill and/or practice in the art of writing. Not everyone knows all the rules of grammar or punctuation. You clearly don't know all of them, or you wouldn't have made the mistakes you did in a post complaining about grammar. I don't pretend that I know all of them either, English Grammar is fairly complex and in a constant state of development.

    If the post is written in sufficiently comprehensible English for you to understand and reply, it's probably good enough. Would it be nice if people took more time with their written communications? Yes. Do I tend to take people's opinions more seriously, when they are better communicated? Yes. Do I expect every post I come across on the Internet to be art? Not by a long shot.

    By the way, the inner English teacher says it should look like:

    I know a lot of people don't care about proper grammar (in their native language no less). You have to understand that you sound ridiculous when you spell things improperly, use/don't use proper punctuation, or spl like ur txting. If you could actually hear what it sounds like, here's an example:
    Last edited by DrgnDancer; 2011-01-22 at 04:06 PM.

  4. #304
    Quote Originally Posted by TheImmortalLordAtlas View Post
    The English language is not evolving. It is degrading and within 100 years no one will be capable of reading. I pity those who think Shakespeare is difficult now.
    This. Seeing the English language (or any language for that matter) being slaughtered because people just can't put in a little effort in learning it correctly, makes me really sad.

  5. #305
    Mechagnome drake741's Avatar
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    Full of win. Excellent post/thread/video ahahahahaha

  6. #306
    Quote Originally Posted by DrgnDancer View Post
    Everyone has a certainly level of skill and/or practice in the art of writing. Not everyone knows all the rules of grammar or punctuation. You clearly don't know all of them, or you wouldn't have made the mistakes you did in a post complaining about grammar. I don't pretend that I know all of them either, English Grammar is fairly complex in in a constant state of development.

    If the post is written in sufficiently comprehensible English for you to understand and reply, it's probably good enough. Would it be nice if people too more time with their written communications? Yes. Do I tend to take people's opinions more seriously, when they are better communicated? Yes. Do I expect every post I come across on the Internet to be art? Not by a long shot.
    I agree on your entire post. I am by no means an English major, or think I am smarter or "more evolved" than anyone else. It really is just relative at the end of the day. I'm sure if I walked into a MENSA meeting, they could find flaws in everything I do, how I present myself etc. The main point I was driving at is there seems to be a definite shift towards laziness and lack of awareness because of this medium we call "the Internet". Why is it that just because things are instant (email, texting, etc.) should we totally throw away our regard to what the other person may be thinking when reading what was written? It is my opinion because of what we have here, and the fact that we are communicating much more through text and type, with extreme ease of access to proper spelling and the like (you don't even have to "look it up in the dictionary" anymore ), that we should be shifting more towards developing better skills at something we practice much more then we ever have. I guess the degradation is all part of the 'me now' mentality that seems to be emerging.
    Last edited by Steavz; 2011-01-22 at 01:18 PM.
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  7. #307
    Today's example from trade chat:

    "Bella stop saying ur @#$%ing private life u nub"

    First I thought Bella was in army. But that "life" didn't fit. After 15 seconds i managed to understand it was supposed to be "Bella, stop talking about your private life", after seeing Bella had said "In my bed".

    Someone could say that this "ur" should give me a clue, as it's "your" instead of "you're". But seeing how this sentence was already ravaged, and how many mistakes are made with those 2 words, I simply ignored it.
    I have enough of EA ruining great franchises and studios, forcing DRM and Origin on their games, releasing incomplete games only to sell day-1 DLCs or spill dozens of DLCs, and then saying it, and microtransactions, is what players want, stopping players from giving EA games poor reviews, as well as deflecting complaints with cheap PR tricks.

    I'm not going to buy any game by EA as long as they continue those practices.

  8. #308
    The Patient Yemiena's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rukah View Post
    Effective grammer is the difference between:

    Helping your uncle jack off a horse

    and

    Helping your uncle, Jack, off a horse.
    actually its:
    Capitalization is the difference between "Helping your uncle Jack off a horse" and "helping your uncle jack off a horse"

  9. #309

    ...

    Quote Originally Posted by Gotjuice View Post
    How about you all stop thinking the world rotates around the USA and figure out a lot of ppl (like myself) on these forums don't speak English as their first language. Actually the non-english speakers who come in here and post/read these forums have an upper hand on yourself. How many of you could go into a French or Spanish forum and contribute? Thats what I thought...
    guess what ? english didnt start in the usa so get over yourself with the usa hate. second, who cares about speaking french or spanish? the vast majority of the world speaks english.

    idk, the whole sub culturistic aspect of the "leet" speak thing used to seem kind of cool but it's over imo. kind of like the ebonic plague of years back. flash in the pan.

    now it just seems like people trying to type as poorly as possible half way resembling something understandable.

    i'd much rather see someone trying to be intelligent and fail than look retarded and succeed.

  10. #310
    While I understand the OP's concern, I am also rather against the concept of the language devolving. It's changing, as it always has. New standards will appear over time to conform, and these standards will be rightfully bashed to pieces by new language again.

    And it's mostly always been like that. Communication doesn't have to be complex, which any person who's been in a foreign nation whose language they couldn't speak should have hinted at.

    I'm all for having standards so we understand one another, but when people talk about preserving the language, or bashing new language, they remind me of the uproars when women thought, "Hey, I'll wear a skirt that goes down to above the knee" and practically got called hoes for doing so. Good ol' times, heh. :B

  11. #311
    Mechagnome Kellytm3's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gotjuice View Post
    How about you all stop thinking the world rotates around the USA and figure out a lot of ppl (like myself) on these forums don't speak English as their first language. Actually the non-english speakers who come in here and post/read these forums have an upper hand on yourself. How many of you could go into a French or Spanish forum and contribute? Thats what I thought...
    How about this...the United States is the reason France and Spain,and the rest of Europe are NOT speaking German...so before you decide to hate on the US,try and remember that it was this great nation that saved your ass

  12. #312
    Quote Originally Posted by Kellytm3 View Post
    remember that it was this great nation that saved your ass
    That great nation that remained neutral for the first two years of the war (it started 1 September 1939) albeit supporting the "Allies" (initially just France, Poland, and the United Kingdom) and only fully joined the war effort after Pearl Harbor, on 8 December 1941?
    That great nation that first thought Nazi Germany could provide a buffer between Western Europe and the rising Soviet Union, and thus did not much to hinder Hitler's takeover?

    However, that's not the point. We're talking about lazy people indiscriminate of their nation or first language. We're accusing people that write unintelligible sentences because they don't care about the readers, not because they don't know the language that well.
    Last edited by Nathanyel; 2011-01-22 at 02:49 PM.
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  13. #313
    Ironically, reading the quote of my earlier post in the OPs reply, I found two typos in my own writing (now corrected). I was careful while typing, went back to proof read, and still made mistakes. It's the nature of the beast, people make mistakes. As to the idea that the language itself is devolving... People have been saying that pretty much since there has been language.

    You can find writings decrying the sorry state of Greek or Latin grammar from the ancient world. English grammar has been failing, according to someone, since English started to exist as a language separate from its French and German roots. For examples of language decried by some elite person or other at various times, look no further than popular literature. Read Huckleberry Finn and check the barely comprehensible accent. Watch the movie My Fair Lady and imagine that her language would have actually started out even less understandable than in did in the movie version. Hell, when it was written Shakespeare was considered low brow by many.

    The modern world has brought three things into the discourse on language that previously didn't exist. The first is that media like television has softened regional accents and increased our ability to parse what remains. When it comes to the spoken word, we all tend to find each other more understandable than in the past. The second is near universal literacy at one level or another. This is important to the current discussion, because while the vast majority of the western world (and more people than ever even in developing countries) can read or write at the basic level required to function, only those who practice ever become good at it. The third is forums on the Internet which allow all people to express opinions, including those who don't practice writing much.

    So the debate about the death of the English language has moved from the spoken word, to the written word. I suspect that in a hundred years someone will *still* be claiming that English is dying and won't exist in another hundred years. They'll probably be wrong too.

  14. #314
    bear tank & beer tank...
    just one character, but what a difference ^_^

  15. #315
    Quote Originally Posted by Nathanyel View Post
    That great nation that remained neutral for the first two years of the war (it started 1 September 1939) albeit supporting the "Allies" (initially just France, Poland, and the United Kingdom) and only fully joined the war effort after Pearl Harbor, on 8 December 1941?
    Actually, to my knowledge, they only "fully" joined the war effort after Nazi Germany declared war on them, several days later. But you're right, that is besides the point.

    The point is that typing like a retard makes you look like a retard.
    That, and most readers don't want to have to try and decode/translate the face-mashing sentences you've just written.

  16. #316
    The Patient Cowsftl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tiren View Post
    guess what ? english didnt start in the usa so get over yourself with the usa hate. second, who cares about speaking french or spanish? the vast majority of the world speaks english.

    idk, the whole sub culturistic aspect of the "leet" speak thing used to seem kind of cool but it's over imo. kind of like the ebonic plague of years back. flash in the pan.

    now it just seems like people trying to type as poorly as possible half way resembling something understandable.

    i'd much rather see someone trying to be intelligent and fail than look retarded and succeed.
    Lol'd. The largest language in the world is Mandarin (Chinese is not a launguage), and the second is Spanish.

    Common sense >>>>>>> Grammar
    Last edited by Cowsftl; 2011-01-23 at 12:16 PM.
    1. Respect your fellow community member

    Do not correct other people's posts when they make a grammatical or spelling mistake. Not everyone's native language is English. If yours is you should be glad everyone else is doing an effort. Respect that.

  17. #317
    Quote Originally Posted by tiren View Post
    guess what ? english didnt start in the usa so get over yourself with the usa hate. second, who cares about speaking french or spanish? the vast majority of the world speaks english.

    idk, the whole sub culturistic aspect of the "leet" speak thing used to seem kind of cool but it's over imo. kind of like the ebonic plague of years back. flash in the pan.

    now it just seems like people trying to type as poorly as possible half way resembling something understandable.

    i'd much rather see someone trying to be intelligent and fail than look retarded and succeed.
    I'd say it kinda fails to be posting "I don't have to be non-ignorant, stop being ignorant" in a thread
    My first language is English (from UK) but am I gonna sit back with "well, my language is spoken widely so I don't have to bother?" - no, it makes you look like a clueless ass with a sense of self righteousness. You ARE the problem, I assure you, not those with English as a second language.
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    just get a mac. It's like sleeping with a fat chick to avoid STD's.

  18. #318
    Quote Originally Posted by procne View Post
    Alphabet degraded, language evolved. If you consider that each hieroglyph / rune equaled one word or even set of words (like adjective-noun) then you have to compare them to words. I am pretty sure that modern english has way more words than amount of runes / hieroglyphs / pictograms in any ancient language.
    Not true. The combinations made different meanings more or less like Chineese (afaik)
    Anyways I was being a bit sarcastic.

  19. #319
    Quote Originally Posted by Lovestar View Post
    Whinging about grammar is essentially complaining that you learned things one way, and now, the nasty children have overturned it all and created a different way of doing it with which you are not familiar and therefore feel annoyed and threatened.

    As long as the individual's communication is clear — and perhaps we're just different people, but even stuff like l33t5p34k and txtng abrv is perfectly clear to me after a short period of observation to learn the rules and format — I don't see the point of throwing a fit about it. Even "improper" systems still have an underlying set of rules that can be violated, as is the esoteric nature of language.

    Language, and the methods of expressing it, change and evolve all the time. It's one of the most fundamental and fluid aspects of humanity, and attempts to rigidly standardize it constantly erode and change over time and with each generation. "Proper" grammar really means "prescriptive" grammar; that is, "Do things the way we tell you to, because... well, just because, damn it."

    To each their own, but I don't see the big deal. In fact, I think it's silly. Let communication evolve — it always does, and it will without your approval anyway.
    for such a sound understanding of linguistics it's upsetting to see you misuse the word esoteric

    But yes, as Lovestar said, language both written and spoken will evolve and continue to evolve throughout the span of humanity. There is a phenomenon known as "Old Village - New Village" in the world of linguistics; Take English for example. The 'Old Village' would be England, the originating point of the English language. In the old village, elders and children alike welcome and adapt to linguistic changes easily. There a number of theories on why this occurs but all the ideas pretty much coalesce towards the same conclusion. The old village just doesn't care. As long as they can understand what is being said, the language is doing its job. The 'New Village', the United States, clings on to their linguistic history and savagely defends it from any form of evolution out of a sense of pride and selfishness. Its been proven that language used by those in the New Village isn't used merely as a means of communication but rather as a definition of intellectual and social status.

  20. #320
    Bloodsail Admiral Toho's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by saberon View Post
    Actually, to my knowledge, they only "fully" joined the war effort after Nazi Germany declared war on them, several days later. But you're right, that is besides the point.

    The point is that typing like a retard makes you look like a retard.
    That, and most readers don't want to have to try and decode/translate the face-mashing sentences you've just written.
    US supported both sides of the war, yes both Nazi and Allies were being supplied by the US until when US joined the war and the people who had invested in the Nazis were called "traitors"

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