"You cannot initiate any more party kicks"

[Mixup]

the kick is supposed to be a "last resort" action and NOT a regular tool to get rid of "inconvenient" players.
blizz wants you to be pretty damn sure that the kick's worth it.

also, you're free to leave even though it may ruin your ID.
tough luck.

You zone into an instance. Your tank ports out and starts questing. 10 minutes later, you finally get a break in his combat long enough to kick him.
You re-queue and get another tank. This tank is a DK in full DPS gear who gets 1-shotted by every single trash pack over and over again until he rages at the healer, zones out, and afk's. "You cannot initiate any more party kicks."

The system is simply flawed. But it's impossible to design a system that takes into account the TERRIBLE quality of some players, AND the wanton abuse of the Vote to Kick feature.

Honestly, I'd quite happily accept the Kick abuse if it meant I could kick more than one cancerous roach per run, but that's just me.


And of course another solution is just to not pug. I certainly try to avoid it... group content is what Guilds are for.

[zshikara]

Don't kick someone who doesn't know the instance. I mean really is it that hard to work with people to make them better? I don't care if you'll never see them again, you should do your part to help make the wow community a better place. If more people start making being nice the "norm" then the bad rap we have as a whole will slowly diminish and then players will be less inclined to act up.

[thepreacher]

My priest got kicked for asking the two rogues to stand behind the flayers in Stonecore (after they had nearly died the first time).

It was a guild group of 4.

Kick less.

[Yankhor]

My priest got kicked for asking the two rogues to stand behind the flayers in Stonecore (after they had nearly died the first time).

It was a guild group of 4.

Kick less.

and you blame them?
you should thank them

[thepreacher]

and you blame them?
you should thank them

Oh I was thankful. Just an example of people abusing the system

[tripplebooya]

Serves the kick happy jerks right. Reserve the action only for dc, afk, or truly bad or morally devoid scumbags.
If someone wipes the group, run back and discuss tactics. If someone happens to be a class you don't like give them a chance to prove its not the class its the player.

[unconnected]

I think there is a bit of confusion between abusing the system and people behaving like sheep.

Abusing: a guild group of 3 or 4 chain kicking people who weren't in full epics
Sheep: people just click yes to whatever vote kick dialogue box pops up

To counter the second, I think Blizz should make the votekick announced to the group, so the player being kicked knows he's about to be kicked and what for, a timer counting down from 10 before you can vote and finally a text box like the deletion confirmation ones, which you have to type CONFIRM or click cancel, so people just clicking to get rid of boxes/on autopilot will cancel the kick instead of just votekick the possibly innocent player. It also gives the person being kicked a last chance to plead his case before he's removed. If he's abusive, so what - he's just going to get more people to type CONFIRM in the box to shut him up and you can always report them if they're really abusive.

To counter the first, I think that parties composed of 3+ guildies or 3+ people who joined the LFD as a group should have the rules left as they are (but still with the changes above) and parties composed of players from completely different realms (i.e. no colusion) are given either limitless kicks, or at least more than 1 kick per instance, even if it's on a cd too.

Players who are outside the instance for longer than 5 minutes when the party is full (i.e. not penalising people questing while waiting for a replacement tank) should be automatically removed as you're never more than 5 minutes away from a repair npc and people afk or offline for longer than 5mins should generate an automatic votekick on themselves which can obviously be cancelled if people don't mind him/her being away.

Blizzard also need to work on a way to report what happened during a wipe in an easy to understand format. This would hopefully automatically identify especially poorly performing players which gives them the opportunity to improve and gives the rest of the party a clear indication of who fucked up. If someone fucked up 3 times in a row for the same reason in a LFD party (i.e. its disabled in guild runs), it should grant the party the option of a free votekick (or possibly even the choice of buffing that particular player with extra dmg mitigation, stamina or run speed for the next attempt).

Even if none of these suggestions made it into the game in any form, Blizzard surely need to realise it's unfair to make competent LFD groups carry crap players.

TL;DR: read the bold bits.

[Abyssian]

I don't run heroics to make friends. If someone is consistently dying to AOE or not pulling their weight at all, you're damn straight I'm going to do whatever I can to get rid of them. The LFD itself is not strict enough on the requirements needed to queue. You can easily pad your ilvl with gear in your bags you can't even wear.

Just now I ran a heroic with a warlock an DK from the same guild. Both of them did less dps than myself (the tank) and the DK died to AOE on every single boss fight. We kicked the warlock, and no one else could initiate a kick for the DK. He declined the role check every time, and decided to sit in the group and run his mouth until the rest of us decided to leave.

The amount of restrictions on the vote kick system need to be removed. If someone is terrible, they deserve to be kicked from the group. I'm tired of having to bail on groups due to it quickly becoming impossible to remove someone who downright refuses to participate.

[tobberoth]

Don't kick someone who doesn't know the instance. I mean really is it that hard to work with people to make them better? I don't care if you'll never see them again, you should do your part to help make the wow community a better place. If more people start making being nice the "norm" then the bad rap we have as a whole will slowly diminish and then players will be less inclined to act up.

Why are they in a heroic version of an instance they have never played?

---------- Post added 2011-01-14 at 10:22 AM ----------

I don't run heroics to make friends. If someone is consistently dying to AOE or not pulling their weight at all, you're damn straight I'm going to do whatever I can to get rid of them. The LFD itself is not strict enough on the requirements needed to queue. You can easily pad your ilvl with gear in your bags you can't even wear.

Nah, the average ilvl only counts gear you can in fact wear, plate won't help a mage get into a group. Unfortunately, cloth WILL count towards a tanks ilvl...

[Maklor]

"You cannot initiate any more party kicks."

I'm fairly certain that means that YOU can't initiate more kicks, just ask someone else to do it.

[tobberoth]

I also really want blizzard to fix a system where the person responsible for a wipe is shown, if a dps stands in aoe for example. However, I don't think it will help. It's very rare to be kicked for bullshit reasons (it happens to everyone, but it's still rare) and in those situations, it won't matter that the game clearly states you're right. Say you're in a group with 3 guildies who are horrible and can't play. You wipe 2 times and the game says the guildies are the source of the problem. You tell them to stop doing it wrong, they are still going to kick you regardless of the knowledge. Idiots will be idiots, assholes will be assholes.

[Téuntjûh]

Yup.. always asking other people, i got a 40 min timer most of the time :P

Edit: Yeah I know I can be an arsehole sometimes ^^

[Maklor]

Yup.. always asking other people, i got a 40 min timer most of the time :P

You only get that because you kick often, as I mentioned earlier in this thread I rarely kick anyone and I have never seen any message that i can't kick when I really need to.

[Skinner]

I have a 45 minute kick timer ;D

OT: I've used a lot of dirty tricks to force people to "relog" only to kick them. It's evil. I know

[Téuntjûh]

hey that's a nice tip, thanks!

[GeaMyaLor]

Kicking someone once per dungeon? Wow, I would hate to get in a group w/ you. I have rarely had to use the vote-kick option. I have only had to use it mostly for dc's/afk's at the group's mutual decision. As the healer I reserve the right to tell someone to gtfo the fire bc it's my job to correct your mistakes. Usually, if you tell someone they are not up to par they will voluntarily leave. Sure, it may not be on the nicest of terms but there are other ways to negotiate poor players in dungeons such as talking to them.

[Téuntjûh]

Yeah, but after asking the dk 5 times to interupt the boss i really cba to help that guy through the dungeon.
CBA to waste my precious time on unneccesary wipes

[Skinner]

Kicking someone once per dungeon? Wow, I would hate to get in a group w/ you. I have rarely had to use the vote-kick option. I have only had to use it mostly for dc's/afk's at the group's mutual decision. As the healer I reserve the right to tell someone to gtfo the fire bc it's my job to correct your mistakes. Usually, if you tell someone they are not up to par they will voluntarily leave. Sure, it may not be on the nicest of terms but there are other ways to negotiate poor players in dungeons such as talking to them.

I had no idea that was our job. If someone's standing in fire, I understand that he's a tough guy, living on the edge! Thus won't mind ending up kissing the floor.

I use atleast 2 kicks a dungeon, if the dungeon is too short for my kick to come off CD, I normally make people leave. I'm an ass to group with, but hey, I always get my valor points lol ;/

[tobberoth]

Kicking someone once per dungeon? Wow, I would hate to get in a group w/ you. I have rarely had to use the vote-kick option. I have only had to use it mostly for dc's/afk's at the group's mutual decision. As the healer I reserve the right to tell someone to gtfo the fire bc it's my job to correct your mistakes. Usually, if you tell someone they are not up to par they will voluntarily leave. Sure, it may not be on the nicest of terms but there are other ways to negotiate poor players in dungeons such as talking to them.

You're a lucky guy. Telling someone to stop doing something wrong will often earn you a kick.

[reverendball]

make the votekick announced to the group, so the player being kicked knows he's about to be kicked and what for, a timer counting down from 10 before you can vote and finally a text box like the deletion confirmation ones, which you have to type CONFIRM or click cancel

parties composed of players from completely different realms (i.e. no colusion) are given either limitless kicks, or at least more than 1 kick per instance, even if it's on a cd too.

Players who are outside the instance for longer than 5 minutes when the party is full (i.e. not penalising people questing while waiting for a replacement tank) should be automatically removed

people afk or offline for longer than 5mins should generate an automatic votekick

Even if none of these suggestions made it into the game in any form, Blizzard surely need to realise it's unfair to make competent LFD groups carry crap players.

i agree with it all the bold bits
post this on the real forums for blue attention pls

blizz are gonna qq about the last line tho
as you know, the vast majority of their subscription is those crappy players you refer to
and if none of us have to carry them to the gear they desire so much, they arent going to want to pay to play are they?

kicking ppl who are being a$$holes (afk/out of instance) needs to be implemented yes, but i can see blizz leaving in the herp derp retards who do 2k auto atk dps in the grp and stand in fire, which will be covered with a generic "how else are they meant to learn if they dont get to see how you do it as a pro?" kind of bullshit complimentary explanation