So if you drop Arcane Shot ...

[Kalcheus]

So I've seen several comments lately about how dropping Arcane Shot from the survival rotation could be a dps boost. I think I understand the implications of this, I'm just hoping for confirmation/clarification.

If the spreadsheet shows that dropping Arcane Shot is a dps GAIN (whoops, my bad), then you drop it;
Instead of Arcane Shot you ... keep firing Cobra Shot until KS, ExS or BA (or ExT if the nerf goes through) is off cooldown, even though it may get you focus capped? is that what the correct adjustment is? if KS, ExS or BA is about to go off cooldown (within 1.67(?) sec) do you hold off on casting Cobra, or is it ok to delay the KS/ExS/BA to finish off the Cobra Shot?

That sound right?

[Aljaser]

So I've seen several comments lately about how dropping Arcane Shot from the survival rotation could be a dps boost. I think I understand the implications of this, I'm just hoping for confirmation/clarification.

If the spreadsheet shows that dropping Arcane Shot is a dps loss, then you drop it;
Instead of Arcane Shot you ... keep firing Cobra Shot until KS, ExS or BA (or ExT if the nerf goes through) is off cooldown, even though it may get you focus capped? is that what the correct adjustment is? if KS, ExS or BA is about to go off cooldown (within 1.67(?) sec) do you hold off on casting Cobra, or is it ok to delay the KS/ExS/BA to finish off the Cobra Shot?

That sound right?

First off, if it shows that dropping arcane is a GAIN you drop it.

And yes, you use cobra in all situations you would have used arcane and ignore focus capping. The difference between using arcane is slightly over half a second, so situations where you have to choose whether to delay should be beyond rare. In them, however, choose not to delay.

[Herecius]

I've never had the spreadsheet tell me that dropping Arcane Shot was a DPS gain. Be sure to set up your spreadsheet to never use Arcane Shot unless you have +75 focus.

[Blowlol]

It´s very simple!

You just use arcane shot, if you would be focus capped (100/100)^^ if you wouldn´t use it! =)

[taekvideo]

Dropping arcane isn't a dps boost. As Herecius pointed out make sure you set the min focus to use arcane shot.
The difference between using arcane and not is very small right now though.
However, with 4.0.6, it will become a lot stronger due to extra focus and arcane shot hitting 15% harder.
It will probably be best to glyph arcane shot when the patch hits and will be a lot more important to avoid focus capping by using arcane shot.

[Psii]

Dropping arcane isn't a dps boost. As Herecius pointed out make sure you set the min focus to use arcane shot.
The difference between using arcane and not is very small right now though.
However, with 4.0.6, it will become a lot stronger due to extra focus and arcane shot hitting 15% harder.
It will probably be best to glyph arcane shot when the patch hits and will be a lot more important to avoid focus capping by using arcane shot.

Warning: Invalid shots found

* Arcane Shot is lower priority than Steady/Cobra Shot so it will never be used

DPS
Combined: 22537.24 100.00%
Hunter: 19858.80 88.12%
Pet: 2678.44 11.88%
Previous: 22343.26 +193.98

Shrug.
Increase for me.

[Herecius]

Dropping arcane isn't a dps boost. As Herecius pointed out make sure you set the min focus to use arcane shot.
The difference between using arcane and not is very small right now though.
However, with 4.0.6, it will become a lot stronger due to extra focus and arcane shot hitting 15% harder.
It will probably be best to glyph arcane shot when the patch hits and will be a lot more important to avoid focus capping by using arcane shot.

Only thing I'm at a loss for is what glyph I would replace. I very much enjoy KS glyph for final boss phases, and T11 has quite a few sub-20% burn bosses, and I'm even more reluctant to replace it since I've started seeing 30k+ KS again in raids.

---------- Post added 2011-01-13 at 07:13 AM ----------

Warning: Invalid shots found

* Arcane Shot is lower priority than Steady/Cobra Shot so it will never be used

DPS
Combined: 22537.24 100.00%
Hunter: 19858.80 88.12%
Pet: 2678.44 11.88%
Previous: 22343.26 +193.98

Shrug.
Increase for me.

If you have your spreadsheet set up so there's something below steady or cobra on the priority list, you're doing it wrong. :/

[melodramocracy]

Dropping arcane in SV is generally a boost simply because you're generally saving your focus for the next ES / BA. There are situations where you can weave an arcane in (during a LnL proc, for example), but generally it's not going to be in the priority for that spec.

[Psii]

If you have your spreadsheet set up so there's something below steady or cobra on the priority list, you're doing it wrong. :/

Isn't that the entire point of this thread though?
Since arcane is below CS/SS, it wont be used, netting me a dps GAIN...

Dropping arcane in SV is generally a boost simply because you're generally saving your focus for the next ES / BA. There are situations where you can weave an arcane in (during a LnL proc, for example), but generally it's not going to be in the priority for that spec.

Agreed, that's about the only place I use it, and that's only if the LnL proc doesn't happen early in the BA time.

[redsunrising15]

Can someone please link this spreadsheet?

[Herecius]

Isn't that the entire point of this thread though?
Since arcane is below CS/SS, it wont be used, netting me a dps GAIN...



Agreed, that's about the only place I use it, and that's only if the LnL proc doesn't happen early in the BA time.

Hm. Would you mind linking your character? I'm sure this'll all be moot after the Arcane Shot buff goes live, but for now, I'd like to mess around with several gear sets from different people and see if I'm getting the same results.
If you want to do the same (keeping in mind that I set the it to not use ArS unless I'm above 75 focus), my character is in my sig.

---------- Post added 2011-01-13 at 07:21 AM ----------

Can someone please link this spreadsheet?

The one in question is www.femaledwarf.com

[Psii]

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...hol/psi/simple

if I change it to save 75 focus for arcane it's only a 150dps buff to dropping arcane.

And it shows me a 75dps gain for you if you drop arcane.
So seems like as gear levels get better (and after buffs/nerfs with patch) arcane will be viable again.

[Aljaser]

Dropping arcane isn't a dps boost. As Herecius pointed out make sure you set the min focus to use arcane shot.
The difference between using arcane and not is very small right now though.
However, with 4.0.6, it will become a lot stronger due to extra focus and arcane shot hitting 15% harder.
It will probably be best to glyph arcane shot when the patch hits and will be a lot more important to avoid focus capping by using arcane shot.

The only reason to avoid focus capping is if it's a DPS loss to cap focus.

Right now it really isn't.

Arcane shot costs 25 focus, 22 if talented.
Explosive shot costs 50 focus.
Cobra shot restores 9 focus.
You have 100 focus maximum.

At best, you can shoot two arcane and an explosive if you are focus capped. But you'll never have more than ~71 focus at the point you could do that as you would be just coming off launching an explosive shot with a cobra backer (50+9+~3 seconds of regen).

Replacing the last cobra with an arcane is also worthless, as the damage is near identical unglyphed and I'm showing a 2-3 dps loss using arcane shot glyph rather than serpent sting both even with arcane in the rotation.

Our major limiter is not focus as much as it is time. Without being able to nearly drop cobra from the rotation, arcane isn't worth it.

[Herecius]

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...hol/psi/simple

if I change it to save 75 focus for arcane it's only a 150dps buff to dropping arcane.

And it shows me a 75dps gain for you if you drop arcane.
So seems like as gear levels get better (and after buffs/nerfs with patch) arcane will be viable again.

Pretty odd. Showing the same thing. I lose 40-50 dps on my sheet or so if I drop it. Opened my eyes a bit, but as you say, I don't think it'll hold true as gear levels go up, especially after the ArS buff goes through.

[w00t692]

I just tested mine.

With PTR settings, dropping arcane = 90 dps gain for me

Oh and just for shits and giggles, using arcane glyph, and dropping explosive shot completely is a 1200 dps loss.

[Deleted]

Mehh atm I have -1DPS if I use Arcane shot, min focus 75

[Xeraxis]

You should never fire an arcane if the mob is above 80%. I think a setting most seem to have forgotten to enable is "Disable Arcane Shot while Careful Aim is active".

[Psii]

You should never fire an arcane if the mob is above 80%. I think a setting most seem to have forgotten to enable is "Disable Arcane Shot while Careful Aim is active".

I'm finding it odd that this is a dps loss by enabling that.
It should be a dps gain no matter what.
Maybe I'm still asleep :S

[Kalcheus]

First off, if it shows that dropping arcane is a GAIN you drop it.

Yikes! Sorry about that. Fixed.

Looked at the spreadsheet some more, made sure to do what everyone said (no AS during Careful Aim, no AS if focus below 75) and replaced my AS glyph (what? I've been busy and haven't had a chance to change it) and I'm still showing a DPS gain without AS. It's not a huge difference at my gear level (~16 dps) though, so I'm thinking that the new buff to Arcane Shot in 4.0.6 brings it back in (current iteration of the ptr changes on femaledwarf indicates a 50 dps gain using AS). Of course, YMMV.

---------- Post added 2011-01-13 at 11:28 AM ----------

I'm finding it odd that this is a dps loss by enabling that.
It should be a dps gain no matter what.
Maybe I'm still asleep :S

I'm seeing the same thing (it's minimal, like 1.5 dps, but still seeing it).