Flask, mats more expensive than the actual flasks

[Constantino]

You are correct. You are almost always better off selling raw mats (mining, leather, herbs) than you are crafting with them unless you have a recipe that ultra rare/desirable...

Not always true. Right now everyone is leveling. In a month or 2, they will get bored. I keep 2 of every enchant scroll on ah, even the ones "no one" wants. I buy all my mats aside from the few I get in groups, all auctions are priced 20% over material cost. Many of them I am undercut on, and that's fine, I got stamina. Eventually I get to the top of the list, selling about 20 scrolls a day. Many of them the under appreciated scrolls that don't gay the glory.

I also make money buying in bulk. I see dust selling at 50%, I buy lots.

[blackvivi265]

I did the same thing. Only thing I'm using alchemy for at the moment is Transmute: Living Elements, mainly as I don't need the gold, I could probably find some pretty easy way to make money with it if I needed to.
Flasks or elixirs aren't worth making to me at the moment. And to the people saying they make money from it as they farm the herbs themselves. If you don't make a profit if you don't farm the herbs, how are you making a profit by farming them? You could just sell the herbs for more gold.

[PyroGhozt]

Call me a gambling man but I prefer to go with my Truegold CD. I've also found purchasing other Alchemists Truegold CD's for 200g+ to be quite profitable. The chance of a procing an extra 4 is either not too low or I've been very lucky. You should see how people react when they have to trade you 5 Truegolds for 200g.

I wish the price of flasks was driven down by guilds trying to get Cauldrons etc, with the current price of flasks on my realm its actually been more profitable to craft and sell flasks instead of selling the raw mats. However with the incoming patch changing the flask costs I would hold up on any flask making unless there is evidence of a definite sale at a good profit before patch comes out.

I know the price of flasks is going to be affected, I'm just curious to see the patterns that will develop in the costing of the herbs though.

[Constantino]

That's why the pricing can be crazy on ah. If I didn't physically buy the materials, there is no cost.

Sadly speaks to a general deficiency with the publics economic understanding.

[Aurumbellus]

Alright

I'm not wether this is just on my server or on a global scale

But i just spend 4000g on power leveling alchemy to 525, just to find out that all flasks sells for about 50% less than the actual mats used

Anyone else experiencing anything similar?

Also, can anyone suggest another way to make money with Alchemy than flasks?

I completely agree. In my server, the economy has turned in on itself....prices for items are equally extreme in both undervalue and overvalue. I'm maxed in herbalism and alchemy, for example. I make a ton of gold selling herbs, and the alchemy is pretty much just for my own use now as a convenience.

If your secondary profession is not herbalism, it's going to be very hard to turn a profit as an alchemist....but you will make money selling your Transmute abilities to other gamers, like the Truegold transmute, and Transmute Living Elements CDs, which people will pay you for.

[Algroda]

That's why the pricing can be crazy on ah. If I didn't physically buy the materials, there is no cost.

Sadly speaks to a general deficiency with the publics economic understanding.

Opportunity Cost.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opportunity_cost

If you herb them yourself, you could then sell them for a profit. If you could sell the mats for 200g and you sell the flask for 300g, you made 100g making the flask over buying the herbs and selling them - you didn't make 300g making the flask. And if it's reversed and you sell the flask for 200...you just lost 100g over what you could have made.

As well, "I farmed them myself so there's no cost" isn't true either, unless you place no value on your time.

[Deleted]

Firstly, if you farm herbs and make flasks to sell, you are an idiot. Potential profit dictates that you could sell those herbs for 50% more gold. If you REALLY want flasks, just sell the herbs and buy the flasks. You are losing gold by farming herbs for flasks.

Potion master is the most profitable atm, in my eyes. Unless you have 5+ Alchemists, Xmute isn't worth it imo. With potions, you make 10-15g profit per pot. I move about 200-300 pots per day on a good day, bringing my profit to 2-3k at a minimum (And I'm not buying from farmers or anything, so you could potentially make more profit). Ofc, it's all server dependant, but I assume other servers are similar.

On my Server Flask Mats cost me 200-250g and sells for 300-350

[Kokomala]

4) Many people are mass producing flasks to unlock cauldrons for their guilds, and then dump all those flasks on the market below mat cost just to get some of their money back. Since prices are bound to fall (especially when 4.0.6 comes live and the mat requirements bevome lower), it doesn't make sense to just sit on those flasks and wait for demand to rise.

You need those flasks for the cauldrons, so I rather doubt this.

[shadowkras]

But i just spend 4000g on power leveling alchemy to 525, just to find out that all flasks sells for about 50% less than the actual mats used

See the bolded part?
Usually everything that is an easy way to level a profession will sell for little on AH.

[Mr_Bojangles]

I wouldn't know, I took Herbalism so every flask I sell is pure profit. Making 200g+ for nothing is a nice profit. Just last night I made about 950g selling flasks, and looking forward to making more tonight.

Well, if you're going for just profit... sell the herbs, not the flasks.

[Dangerjoe]

I wouldn't know, I took Herbalism so every flask I sell is pure profit. Making 200g+ for nothing is a nice profit. Just last night I made about 950g selling flasks, and looking forward to making more tonight.

1. the herbs have a price, minimum price is vendor price.. maximum price is AH value.

this is the reason AH prices crash.. ppl like u have no clue how to profit...


Saleprice - material price = profit

eg.

saleprice 200gold
material price on ah 230gold

profit = 200 - 230 = -30gold gz u just made minus 30 gold.

[Deleted]

Not the case on my server, certain flasks go for more than the mat price, but since i farm everything myself anyway it's all profit.
But if you're looking for pure profit, go transmute mastery. I went elixir simply to benefit the guild for raids

[Dangerjoe]

Not the case on my server, certain flasks go for more than the mat price, but since i farm everything myself anyway it's all profit.
But if you're looking for pure profit, go transmute mastery. I went elixir simply to benefit the guild for raids

NONONONONO "but since i farm everything myself anyway it's all profit." no just nO... ill just requote myself

1. the herbs have a price, minimum price is vendor price.. maximum price is AH value.

this is the reason AH prices crash.. ppl like u have no clue how to profit...


Saleprice - material price = profit

eg.

saleprice 200gold
material price on ah 230gold

profit = 200 - 230 = -30gold gz u just made minus 30 gold

[Deleted]

These people just boggle my mind. Just because you have herbalism does not make mats free. Lets say flask cost 1 stack of flowers for simplicity. And 1 stacks of flowers sells for 300g while flasks sell for 150g. So you herb the stack make a flask and "MAKE" 150g with your alch.....


NO you just made 300 with your herbalism and lost 150 with your alchemy... This misconception is amazing.

This guy takes the top prize. Pointing out stupidity in such a "humble" way.


@OP, The sheer amount of people/guilds pumping flasks out to open up the use of cauldrons means that supply outweighs demand on many servers right now.

[Caelia]

Well in case you missed it (didn't see anyone pointing it out here)

In the PTR patch notes it says this

# The number of herbs required to create flasks has been reduced, while the Volatile Life needed has been increased slightly.

So hopefully you at least won't lose money on making flasks

[procne]

This is not 100% accurate, a few months down the road anything I would consider a core raider item (flasks/foods/enchants) will sell for higher profits than the raw mats. That is assuming you can find good prices and trend along with the AH.

Just in case, what I mend by trending with the AH is the tendency of selling goods on typical raid nights (Tues/Wed/Thurs) and replenishing your mat stocks on the weekend.

Unless blizzard tries to lower amount of mats or make those items less desirable / easier to get. Then you end up with lots of items made with more expensive items / noone wants.

---------- Post added 2011-01-14 at 08:53 AM ----------

Well in case you missed it (didn't see anyone pointing it out here)

In the PTR patch notes it says this


So hopefully you at least won't lose money on making flasks

I wouldnt be so hopefull. Flasks are cheaper than mats not because mats are so expensive. Its because alchemists make much more than people need, so they try to sell them for any price, just to get rid of them.

And why alchemists make so many? Probably for guild achievements to get the cauldron.

I have already seen alchemists on my realm working for free (no fees, all procs to client) just to boost the amount of flasks made for guild

[Caelia]

Unless blizzard tries to lower amount of mats or make those items less desirable / easier to get. Then you end up with lots of items made with more expensive items / noone wants.

---------- Post added 2011-01-14 at 08:53 AM ----------



I wouldnt be so hopefull. Flasks are cheaper than mats not because mats are so expensive. Its because alchemists make much more than people need, so they try to sell them for any price, just to get rid of them.

And why alchemists make so many? Probably for guild achievements to get the cauldron.

I have already seen alchemists on my realm working for free (no fees, all procs to client) just to boost the amount of flasks made for guild

Maybe, but it' 8 herbs instead of 12 and as for the achievements..
* Better Leveling Through Chemistry now requires you to create 3,000 Cataclysm flasks, down from 25,000.
* Mix Master now requires you to create 1,000 Cataclysm flasks, down from 10,000.

Should make this nonsense stop a bit sooner

[procne]

Maybe, but it' 8 herbs instead of 12 and as for the achievements..
* Better Leveling Through Chemistry now requires you to create 3,000 Cataclysm flasks, down from 25,000.
* Mix Master now requires you to create 1,000 Cataclysm flasks, down from 10,000.

Should make this nonsense stop a bit sooner

I think this achievement change started this nonsense. Before it people knew its a looooooong way to reach it. But when they saw blizzard making this change few weeks ago everyone started making flasks because reaching those numbers seemed so close.

Also remember that new guilds are created everyday

Edit:
Also, when guilds start making cauldrons less people (especially those core raiders) will need flasks. Demand for flasks will be going down, most likely faster than supply

[Elix]

Transmute Elements is a great way to make money too! If you're a transmutation master, you can sometimes proc anywhere between 15 to 20 Volatiles of another kind.

I sell 15 Volatile Airs everyday on my server for around 40 to 50 Gold. This covers my raiding costs with even some leftovers.

[Posttrauma]

You are correct. You are almost always better off selling raw mats (mining, leather, herbs) than you are crafting with them unless you have a recipe that ultra rare/desirable...

Yea you are probably right. I guess for now, while most people are still skilling up professions, raw mats seem to be worth more than the crafted products just because of demand right now. Prices have come down since the release of cata on mats a little bit on my server, and Im sure that will continue to trend down. So eventually it would make sense that some crafted materials will become worth more than the mats used to make them.

It's worth noting that even now their are exceptions. Having inscription, I can make those fortune cards (almost like lottery tickets) that will sell for 40g on a good day. They only require 1 ink and 1 parchment to make, so pulling a profit on those isnt too hard.