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  1. #1
    Stood in the Fire lexonio's Avatar
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    Why do people keep dismissing PvP gear?

    Why do certain people keep whining about people using pvp gear in dungeons and raids? For example I am an Unholy DK, and the bonus for wearing 4 main pvp items(head, chest, etc.) is 250 strength (70+180).
    According to EJ calculations, to offset this bonus of 250 strength alone I need exactly 1030 haste rating (the second best stat for UH DKs). Can I ever get so much haste on those 4 pve pieces worn instead of the pvp gear? No. Only epic raid gear can prove better, but until then - 4pc pvp is all the way.

    So I think people should keep silent and read up before blaming others for wearing pvp gear in pve environment.

    UPD: Hit cap is achieved by trinkets, and for DKs haste is better than expertise even when the latter is not capped.
    Last edited by lexonio; 2011-01-13 at 08:55 PM.
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  2. #2
    It's not you its the majority of noobs that get PVP gear to get into dungeons and raids saying their ilvl is 350 yet their gear is all pvp and they suck at pve...

  3. #3
    Stat weights.

  4. #4
    The same thing gose for hunter 4pc pvp its Bis till they get 4pc t11

  5. #5
    The Patient Hizzy's Avatar
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    Because 99.99999999999999% of the time when you see a player in PvP gear they cant get over 3k dps. If you do well in the PvP gear then by all means wear it. Just a question though, are you doing 10k+ in heroics with your "BiS till T11" gear? From my point of view if it has resil on it it only belongs in pvp. Also, look at pvp gear, its a pve stat (haste crit hit mastery) and resil. Most people will come to the conclusion that your dps will suck because that resil spot is taking up a pve stat spot.
    So would it crush your little heart to switch from your pvp epics to a pve blue? Oh wait you must be one of those people that held on to your LK epics till you got heroic blues to replace them even though quest greens were obvious upgrades as well

  6. #6
    PVP gear has resilience. Resilience does absolutely dick in a dungeon. A 308 green is better than a 339 PVP blue. It is that simple.

  7. #7
    Stood in the Fire lexonio's Avatar
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    Maeleena, read my post, where I prove that bonus for wearing 4 pieces of pvp set completely demolishes even ilvl 346 heroic loot.

    Hizzy, I just did some pve today - second place in BH10 (something along the lines of 13k, the first one was 13.2k, we had no melee haste buff).
    16k dps on the first boss of BRC heroic (that is probably thanks to a bit of aoe), and I am constantly over 10k in heroics. Depending on the buffs it ends like 12k dps for overall data.

    Resil is taking a pve stat spot. However bonus from wearing 4 pieces of pvp set give so much pve value (250 strength) that can only be overtaken by 1030 haste rating (best stat after strength). 4 pieces of pre-raid gear won't provide 1030 haste rating, I'm afraid
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  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by lexonio View Post
    Maeleena, read my post, where I prove that bonus for wearing 4 pieces of pvp set completely demolishes even ilvl 346 heroic loot.
    Trust me it doesn't offset it, because most people that only have PVP gear don't PVE much, and therefore will most likely suck at it.

    I will boot anyone from any run if they come into a PVE instance with PVP gear, even guildies.

  9. #9
    Stood in the Fire lexonio's Avatar
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    "Most likely" is not an argument. Booting people for using the most effective gear is a good way to go, lol.
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  10. #10
    Stood in the Fire AverageJoe42's Avatar
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    My problem with PvP gear is how much of it I had to craft in order to level my skills. There were no PvE gear options available to make, and it doesn't sell anywhere near the price of the mats.
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  11. #11
    if your a dps spec and you can still do considerable dps...let your numbers talk. healers and tanks especialy for the love of god please.....no pvp gear. ive been in your boat as dps in pvp gear...i was turned down to raids. you can tell them your numbers but some will still turn you down cause of pvp gear. get used to it n get over it its their loss if you can truly put out good numbers.

    that being said, it is true however that 90% of the people in pvp gear just have it for the welfare ilvl.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by lexonio View Post
    "Most likely" is not an argument. Booting people for using the most effective gear is a good way to go, lol.
    I like how you're acting as if your behavior is the norm.

    Having the 4pc set bonus and the rest of your gear filled out with appropriate PVE rewards is one thing. Being completely decked out in PVP gear is another.

    Guess which one is more common.
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  13. #13
    Herald of the Titans Agallochh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maeleena View Post
    PVP gear has resilience. Resilience does absolutely dick in a dungeon. A 308 green is better than a 339 PVP blue. It is that simple.
    This is wrong by far. The stat gain from a 308 > 352 pvp gear is immense. Sure, the resil doesn't do anything, but the primary stats (agi, int, str, spirit, stam) alone will be hugely amplified. On my warlock I use 4 pvp pieces, 359 epic wand (cause i was using a 318 green), 352 blue cloak, shoulders and gloves. I am never below 10k dps overall and 13-15k (depending on fight, blust, etc) using those.
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  14. #14
    The Patient Hizzy's Avatar
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    Okay you mentioned the strength bonus already. 4 pieces of gear give you 250 strength instead of (estimates here so dont take it literally now) 400 crit, 400 haste, 400 mastery seeing as how most main set pieces have 100+ of those stats on them.

    Did you do the calculations yourself or just base it off all the numbers on EJ? Have you tried wearing the heroic ilevel 346 gear in those slots and test your dps? You know if you do it on a dummy you have to do 3+ tests for it to be accurate thanks to RNG procs.

    Your ice skating uphill, the only people who will help defend you are those same people wearing all pvp gear. It has been an unwritten rule for years that the only time you wear pvp gear in a raid/dungeon is if it is that much better. A cloak, a pair of bracers, a chest piece; more then one or two pvp items will get people to look at you sideways because of past experiences with people in pvp gear. I used to wear the cloak and bracers on my mage, but as soon as I found something 1 tier lower on ilevel of it that pvp item went back into my bag with my other pvp gear.

    The main issue is the stat loss for resil and people will think your dps is lacking without even letting you show it because they feel your missing stats.

  15. #15
    Stood in the Fire lexonio's Avatar
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    @unholy I was speaking about the former. Being fully pvp geared is wrong, however people start shouting even when they see a couple of pvp items.

    @Hizzy: pvp items give not only resilience as their second stat, they always have haste/crit/mastery etc. tied to them, in the amounts similar to pve items.
    Last edited by lexonio; 2011-01-13 at 09:06 PM.
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  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Maeleena View Post
    Trust me it doesn't offset it, because most people that only have PVP gear don't PVE much, and therefore will most likely suck at it.

    I will boot anyone from any run if they come into a PVE instance with PVP gear, even guildies.
    You're a complete respectable member of the community. When I was in my 4 piece pvp set, I was demolishing other sv hunters with boe epics. Someone else said stat weights earlier, and he's completely right: the main stat for hunters, agility, can beat mastery/crit by a factor of three or even four, making it far more feasible than 346 pve gear.

    Okay you mentioned the strength bonus already. 4 pieces of gear give you 250 strength instead of (estimates here so dont take it literally now) 400 crit, 400 haste, 400 mastery seeing as how most main set pieces have 100+ of those stats on them.
    Incorrect. You're over-exaggerating the secondary stats lost to FOUR pieces of pvp gear. You will gain around 550 secondary stats from pve gear, but you can gain up to 300-400 main stats from wearing the pvp sets. You have no facts to back your interesting theories off, pack your bags and leave.

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    Last edited by Nyanmaru; 2011-01-14 at 07:43 AM.

  17. #17
    The Patient Hizzy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lexonio View Post
    @Hizzy: pvp items give not only resilience as their second stat, they always have haste/crit/mastery etc. tied to them, in the amounts similar to pve item.
    No they give one of those stats and resil. PvE items give 2 of those stats (unless it has spirit for the healer items)
    So instead of your chest have crit and haste it has crit and resil. You just lost 100+ haste for 100+ resil.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by lexonio View Post
    Why do certain people keep whining about people using pvp gear in dungeons and raids? For example I am an Unholy DK, and the bonus for wearing 4 main pvp items(head, chest, etc.) is 250 strength (70+180).
    According to EJ calculations, to offset this bonus of 250 strength alone I need exactly 1030 haste rating (the second best stat for UH DKs). Can I ever get so much haste on those 4 pve pieces worn instead of the pvp gear? No. Only epic raid gear can prove better, but until then - 4pc pvp is all the way.

    So I think people should keep silent and read up before blaming others for wearing pvp gear in pve environment.

    UPD: Hit cap is achieved by trinkets, and for DKs haste is better than expertise even when the latter is not capped.
    Because it's easier to systematically dismiss people that want to use PvP gear in PvE than it is to hope and pray for that one person that uses PvP gear [to meet the PvE dungeon req] to also be a great PvE'er.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by lexonio View Post
    Maeleena, read my post, where I prove that bonus for wearing 4 pieces of pvp set completely demolishes even ilvl 346 heroic loot.

    Hizzy, I just did some pve today - second place in BH10 (something along the lines of 13k, the first one was 13.2k, we had no melee haste buff).
    16k dps on the first boss of BRC heroic (that is probably thanks to a bit of aoe), and I am constantly over 10k in heroics. Depending on the buffs it ends like 12k dps for overall data.

    Resil is taking a pve stat spot. However bonus from wearing 4 pieces of pvp set give so much pve value (250 strength) that can only be overtaken by 1030 haste rating (best stat after strength). 4 pieces of pre-raid gear won't provide 1030 haste rating, I'm afraid
    No, it doesnt. You miss out on other stats and even with the argument that you can only get so much haste by wearing pvp gear you can reforge all the expertise you want to haste on pve gear all the crit all the mastery you want to get the damn haste.

    ilvl accounts for the stats there is allowed to be on gear. Resilience eats up huge chunks of that. I cant confirm but I believe there to be more baseline str on pve gear as well because pvp gear shifts some of it to sta. Not sure about that one.
    Also a dodged attack does no damage uses 1 full GCD and if its an attack with CD that CD (necrotic strike or whats it called)

    As you do not post in the DK-forum I can say that a warrior that has autoattacks dodged has no rage income uses the CDs of his abilities (because ya know,.. we actually cant just MS all the time, sad but true, not even if the rage would be high enough).
    It may be true for unholy DK (still doubt it until I have more than a statement with numbers, I want arguments with numbers to back them up, there is a difference if you dont know what there is no reason for a discussion) but for the majority pve gear is still miles better for pve so dont expect people to know that its different for that one spec of one class.


    To back it up for warriors a bit: STR = 2 AP. I am an orc and can use my racial for 900 AP (which is worth 450 STR). That alone wont increase my damage noticeably (tested over many hours in heroics, open world questing and dummies). Only if I use it together with a 1400str trinket and inner rage (damn will get changed) I had a noticeable increase of about 35% of which 15% are due to inner rage. So the trinket+racial are worth 1850 strength and increase my dps by 20% for the duration. As for warriors: pve stats >> resilience + laughable 250str.
    Its fair to assume this works similar with other classes. No main stat is 4 times better than the next best stat or else we would still be pure gemming and ignoring all bonuses from sockets.
    Last edited by akuaku; 2011-01-13 at 09:19 PM.

  20. #20
    Stood in the Fire lexonio's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hizzy View Post
    You just lost 100+ haste for 100+ resil.
    As soon as I loose 1030 haste for 1030 resil, you will be right. Until then 4pc bonus will outweight these stats. And I will never loose 1030 haste by wearing only 4 main pvp items.

    Quote Originally Posted by akuaku View Post
    the argument that you can only get so much haste by wearing pvp gear
    Please, re-read my argument. I am tired of repeating it in every single post of mine, since it was not about haste, it was about 250 strength bonus of a pvp set.
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