1. #1

    What does a Shadow Priest bring to a group?

    This is not a troll, but in fact a serious question. Every single group I've been in since 4.0.3 Shadow Priest DPS has been very sub par compared to every other DPS. I've been grouped with an 84 hunter who did 13.5k dps, while the best Spriest I've seen do is about 11k in iLevel 350 gear. In addition the CC that a shadow priest brings is sub par as well imo. Sure Mind Control has it's uses, but shackle is useful only against undead. An AoE fear is situational at best, and they get a single target fear which again is situational. If someone can please answer seriously I'd appreciate it. This isn't a rag on shadow priests, I'm legitimately asking this as I've played Spriests in Vanilla, BC, and early WOTLK, and I'm curious. Thanks.

  2. #2
    Buff wise? 5% spell haste.

    There is also a (mediocre) CC in Psychic Scream (properly glyphed). Sometimes it is enough to make the difference. You've already noted Mind Control and Shackle. There's also the Fort buff/Shadow Protection buff. Mind Soothe as well when you just don't want to pull that next pack of humanoids. A slowing ability tied into one of their main dps spells (which is useful more often then you would think)

    I'm sure there's more I'm forgetting.

  3. #3
    As a healer, I love shadow priests because of vampiric embrace. It might not heal a lot, but it heals everyone and it does it constantly. I'm also pretty sure good shadow priests do pretty good damage on singletarget bosses, the problem is that shadow priests have possibly the worst aoe in the game except for maybe paladins, which might make shadow priest dps look worse in recount than it is unless you look at specific bosses. Even on trash it's hard to put out good damage since mind spike + mind blast is the only effective option and it's gimped compared to proper doting.

  4. #4
    Shadowpriests played properly have no issues with busting out some decent DPS, they may be slightly below other classes; I'm not sure. However, it's definitely not as bad as in your example, it's merely a l2p issue.

    Mind Control, if used properly, can easily be the best CC you can find. It takes over one mob which, depending on choice, can do more damage than the Shadowpriest itself or heal the group. It can also easily tank another mob, which effectively leads to the Shadowpriest CCing two targets, and damaging them both greatly.

    And, if the target is Undead, Shackle is the only reliable CC that can be spammed on the target (if someone accidentally hits it, it can be reapplied, unlike Freezing Trap).

    Aside from that, they bring a lot of utility to the group; Replenishment, Vampiric Embrace, Power Word: Fortitude, Shadow Protection and the 5% Spell Haste aura.

  5. #5
    Your shadow priests don't sound too good. I do 13K DPS with just blues.

    If you dont have your priest healer then we bring HP and shadow res buffs

    We have a trickling heal (Vamp Embrace) and the ability to instantly drop from Shadow form and help your healers in dangerous times while your dots still roll on mobs.

    MC pulls are excellent at at killing a mob completely before you pull. Some MC mobs in heroics can do 30K+ DPS

    Shackle can be made instant with a glyph (theres still lots of undead out there).

    Psychic Scream handy for instant control to let your healers draw breath.

    Mass Dispel and Dispel are great options to help your healers (think Baradin Hold).

  6. #6
    Aint hard for a hunter to do a little under 15k dps in a 5man lvl 84. Bosses have a smaller healthpool, and heroism/lust/time warp/ancient hysteria + cooldowns almost last the whole fight, so thats in fact irrelevant for the topic.

    Spriest in pvp gear dont have a problem pulling 10-13k dps on bossfights tough, so i would say a pve Spriest is mostly valuable. they got decent dps, the ability to multidot, constant small heals, disperson etc etc.

  7. #7
    I'm top 3 on every boss fight (other than magmaw) for my 25 man guild. Single target dps is more or less fine and any fight where you can multi-dot shadow priests really shine.

  8. #8
    11k dps with iLvl 350 u say? Probably the same guys that did like 6k dps in ICC with the 30% buff....

    I did 18k dps in BH yesterday with iLvl 352, without all the major buffs (lacking 10% sp, crit-debuff on target etc.etc)

    Shadow is fine, you just haven't met one who has a slightest clue of how to play
    By MY hand, your slack shall be extinguished, eternally banished from this realm.

    Holyfury armory - <Inept> 3d/w 25guild

  9. #9
    Stop comparing people if different skill level, ofc you won't get a even outburst.

    If you get grouped with me on my main, and my brother who has only played alittle while, and don't understand the game to the max.
    You won't see him out dpsing me at any time, due to the fact he does not know his char and abillitys at the same level, and doesn't use hours on it to maxmize his output..

    Shadowpriest is verywell able to shit loads of damage, I do not know in the top guilds where everyone knows what they are doing, but I am pretty much in the top in every fight I am in. Yes there is fights where shadow priest doesn't shine as much, but shadow priest are insane dps if played by a person who knows what he is doing.

    Stop your stupid comparings between players of different skill levels.
    It is common sense to take a method and try it. If it fails, admit it frankly and try another. But above all, try something.

  10. #10
    Shadowpriests become bad in heroics as soon as dps is high enough that dotting mobs is a waste of time. It always was like that and it will always be like that as long as SPs are a dot class.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by MillorTime View Post
    I'm top 3 on every boss fight (other than magmaw) for my 25 man guild. Single target dps is more or less fine and any fight where you can multi-dot shadow priests really shine.
    Saying you're top # in any boss fight really has no bearing since it relies on gear and the skill of the rest of the dps and situations. Any dps can always be top # in any guild because of this (except ret pallies rofl)

    Just saying

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by ThrashMetalFtw View Post
    11k dps with iLvl 350 u say? Probably the same guys that did like 6k dps in ICC with the 30% buff....

    I did 18k dps in BH yesterday with iLvl 352, without all the major buffs (lacking 10% sp, crit-debuff on target etc.etc)

    Shadow is fine, you just haven't met one who has a slightest clue of how to play
    on world of logs, there are 34 spriests total on US and EU realms who did 18K dps + in a 10m (assumed 10, you were without buffs)

    15k dps as shadow on that fight is above average

  13. #13
    Many things we still bring :

    1. 5% spell haste.
    2. Stamina buff.
    3. Shadow protection buff.
    4. MC, one of the best CC against humanoids (especially for healing ones).
    5. Shackles only works against undead, sure, but people will love you in SFK.
    6. Off-heals, in sticky situations it's always nice to have someone who can off-heal.
    7. DOTS! Yes, in many fights that require lots of moving around, Spriest dps is still good thanks to that.
    8. Fear ward, aoe fear (glyphed it's quite nice).
    9. Constant healing with vampiric embrace, even if it's minor.
    10. 15% damage reduction for us mean less healing on us, therefore more healing on others.
    11. Altough we can't dispel disease as much as before, we still have dispel and mass dispel (glyphed almost casted instantly).
    Last edited by Lufia; 2011-01-14 at 03:12 PM.

  14. #14
    The trick with Shadow dps is managing your procs, dots, and buffs. If your dps is low, you're probably letting Empowered Shadow fall off, or letting dots fall off without refreshing, or not utilizing all your shadow orbs, or not timing your Dark Arcangel proc with your heavy-hitting spells. I was consistently doing 6k dps (compared to everyone else's 9-10k) when I was still trying to figure out a proper rotation. Now I have a system of Power Auras alerts set up for all my procs/dots, and my dps is consistently above 10k.

  15. #15
    My dps in raids is usually in the top 3 depending on boss fights,

    using recount to track dps.

    heroics in blue gear i did 9k - 13k

    10man it's more like 11k-16k depending on fights (with flask)

    25 mans - 12k-17k depending on fights, with a slight change in gear to maximize int and haste, the warlock haste buff. im giving our fire mage and mut rogue a damn good run for there money, i don't always win the dps races but we stay mostly on par with each other.

    As to what Spriests add to the group. i agree with most of the above points. there have been times where i have had to pop out of shadow form and heal, toss a shield on the tank every chance i got and focus dispells on the boss.

    or how about the fact that we can offspec as a damn good healer when the raid/5man needs us to?

    -Red

  16. #16
    Shadow priests rarely die. As a healer, I like spriests because it is easy to keep you guys alive. Meaning I can heal the damage-soaking rogues instead.

    Don't worry too much about what you bring. Worry about whether you are able to move out of fire. That's the real question to ask.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by blizzardcashshop View Post
    on world of logs, there are 34 spriests total on US and EU realms who did 18K dps + in a 10m (assumed 10, you were without buffs)

    15k dps as shadow on that fight is above average
    World of Logs is a little wonky atm because it isn't attributing shadowy apparitions to the shadow priest and this is an even bigger issue in raids with more than one shadow priest.

  18. #18
    It's important to remember something about shadow dps - the shorter the fight, the worse our dps. That means

    In our 25 mans, me and another shadow priest are constantly in the top 5-7, depending on the fight. Sometimes we're both in the top 3.

    In heroics though, it changes. The fights are much shorter, so our dps can't ramp up as much. But don't worry as much about dps in 5-mans - the focus is if everyone got through everything without people dying. Who cares if a trash pack took an extra 5 seconds because of 10kdps versus 13kdps. It's a trash pack. As long as the group is mowing through things, don't sweat it.

    The people out-dps'ing me consistently in 5-mans rarely out dps me in our boss fights in our 25 man. As people get better and better gear, this will continue to happen, as we'll mow through 5-man trash and bosses even quicker, and shadow dps won't have time to ramp up. We can switch to MS/MS/MB at that point if needed, hopefully.

  19. #19
    Brewmaster Kiry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arlee View Post
    World of Logs is a little wonky atm because it isn't attributing shadowy apparitions to the shadow priest and this is an even bigger issue in raids with more than one shadow priest.
    Shadow app does about 2% of our damage...which isn't that exciting.

    Shadowpriest bring haste buff, sheilds, good damage mitagation and a low rolling 3% healing from VE. We are a good tool, but not the best tool out there. It really does depend on your raid and guild culture and make up.

    I do some decent dps, but compared to some of the other available classes, I dont shine until the fight get complicated. We don't really have an interrupt (unless we specifically spec into it) compared to silencing shot, counter spell, purge, hammer, shield slam, various other class interrupts. (imo, physic fear glyped counts only if you run in and hit it...lol - its good for cho'gal tho)

    It's frustrating at times.

  20. #20
    The Patient sasslefrassed's Avatar
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    I think your spriest is just a little bad. The first time I did BH with my 345 gear, I easily pulled 18k and topped the charts. True, the aoe of a spriest is terrible right now, but it is getting buffed. =)
    Plus, do I need to mention the many raid buffs spriests bring? Spriests are great utility and great dps, they just need to know their class.


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