(Holy) Healing is Trivial - Half Guide, Half Rant

[hvidgaard]

But that doesn't really have anything to do with randomness. That is just a part of the equations needed in a proof. A tank is a difficult to heal as his gear, skill and the encounter determines, and likewise for healers and dps. So obviously you have a gear, skill and encounter variable about which you can reason, for instance - "If the tank have x gear and y skill, the healer needs at least z gear provided he have at least s skill, in this particular case you can see that if the healer only have s/2 skill he can counter it with 2z gear". Lots of lots of varaibles, which is probably also why we haven't seem any decent proofs yet. The people with the required skills simply don't have time to play WoW anymore.

[Deleted]

Any theoretical phycisist online?? There goes the rest of my day :/ brb

---------- Post added 2011-01-21 at 01:38 PM ----------

Ok i have come up with this so far

Trivaility = Tg(Ts)/Hs(Hg) (d/l(mt))^5

Tg tank gear
Ts tank skill
Hs healer skill
Hg healer gear
d difficulty
t time
m mistakes
l lagg

Complications arise due to values, since minimum gear is 329 Ilvl but giving that a value of 1 would be in appropriate as the healer cannot have less than 1. Whilst giving a value of 329 will also be inappropriate as pvp gear or non properly itemised gear does not give the real value. So

gear = iLvl(itemisation)/329

Skill is a bit more complicated so i await inspiration.

[shandala]

The 5SR is not in itself a complicated enough mechanic that its addition would increase the difficulty of healing by any order that decisions or the sequence of spells would be massively more complicated than they are now. Decisions based on the 5SR were based on finite choices just as the choices are now. In fact, you state how easy it was to pop trinket cooldowns and talented cooldowns taking advantage of the 5SR in order to get back to full mana while tank healing.

The removal of one variable that you personally enjoyed does not oversimplify the overall process, especially in the light of the increased complexity in the encounters from TBC to the present.

Your argument is that if you think that healing is easy, then it is. Of course the same argument can be made that if you think healing is difficult, then it is. Swapping trivial with difficult in your argument would produce that conclusion.

[Deleted]

Mathematics applies to everyday life. That's why they teach it to us when we're kids.

Reality must necessarily be consistent with mathematics, but not all mathematics need to be consistent with reality

[l3rl4n]

Can I get a TLDR version of this rant?
This thread is just begging to not get read.

[Zeuq]

The 5SR is not in itself a complicated enough mechanic that its addition would increase the difficulty of healing by any order that decisions or the sequence of spells would be massively more complicated than they are now. Decisions based on the 5SR were based on finite choices just as the choices are now. In fact, you state how easy it was to pop trinket cooldowns and talented cooldowns taking advantage of the 5SR in order to get back to full mana while tank healing.

The removal of one variable that you personally enjoyed does not oversimplify the overall process, especially in the light of the increased complexity in the encounters from TBC to the present.

Your argument is that if you think that healing is easy, then it is. Of course the same argument can be made that if you think healing is difficult, then it is. Swapping trivial with difficult in your argument would produce that conclusion.

I'd actually go a step farther. Part of the problem with the OP is that he's convoluting complexity with challenge and, thus, because in some ways things are simpler, they must be easier. As an example, consider the game Go, which has a very simple premise and basic rules for how moves are made and scoring is done, and yet it is so incredibly challenging that Humans with even intermediate skill in Go can easily out perform the best AIs. Yet, with a game with a much more complex set of rules like Chess, even the best Human players in the world cannot beat a decent AI.

I submit that the 5SR, while more complex than the current regen model, is actually far less challenging than the current state. Consider that in BC, I'd watch for a HC proc, pop ESM, pre-cast GH7 and use IF to extend, and I'd easily get a solid 10-12s of OO5SR regen with all that extra spirit; it wasn't difficult to game it. It sounds complicated, but it basically just boils down to watching for a proc and reacting with the same series of abilities.

Today, regen is a simpler mechanic, with no bonus regen for not casting and just a cooldowns, but the resulting regen game is a much more interesting challenge because it comes down to timing cooldowns with fight mechanics and choosing appropriate spells for the situation. As such, it requires deeper knowledge of the class as a whole in understanding which spells make sense in which situations, and it also requires deeper understanding of how the fight so one can appropriately predict damage patterns and know when to use those cooldowns.

In the end, I would argue that spell selection and fight knowledge required with the current situation, while ultimately simpler than 5SR is actually a far more interesting and challenging way of managing mana than simply watching for a proc and reacting in a predictable manner every time.

[Lujanera]

Trivaility = Tg(Ts)/Hs(Hg) (d/l(mt))^5

Tg tank gear
Ts tank skill
Hs healer skill
Hg healer gear
d difficulty
t time
m mistakes
l lagg

This looks impressive/pretty, but there's nothing there. A few problems:

1) Most of the terms are undefined in terms of how they are measured. How do you measure tank or healer skill? As an example, measuring gear itemization is -- judging by the discussions I have seen regarding Gearscore -- is not straightforward or obvious. Defining 'difficulty' has similar issues, mentioned previously in this discussion. Also, what are the units?

2) The definition is circular. The purpose of 'triviality', I thought, was to serve as a measure of difficulty. But here it is defined in terms of 'difficulty'.

[zombiesnakes]

I liked it, even though I'm not a priest.

Good effort, your case is solid

His case is only solid because he's validating it himself. Honestly, this post has to be a joke, I can't imagine there is anyone in the world who would overcomplicate a game to such extremes he has to write a college thesis about it. Maybe you should go do something else?

[Deleted]

I wish every thread on every forum was required to be written using logic, this is the most intellectually stimiluting discussion i've ever seen <3

[Ynna]

I wish every thread on every forum was required to be written using logic, this is the most intellectually stimulating discussion I've ever seen <3

Yeah, and while we're at it everyone who ever opens up their internet browser should have taken:
- Basic English
- At least 3 other languages
- Basic Webdesign
- Advanced Computer Sciences
- Advanced Game Design
- Psychology 101
- Sociology 101
- A course in how to look up and present information
- Charm School
- Ballroom Dancing
- Origami

[moremana]

wow, this all could have been said in a much shorter post. now I have a headache!

[Deleted]

- Origami

I totally gonna take origami classes. That's a very useful skill to have, if only to impress women. Probably works better than "Hi I kill dragonz on the internet".

[Alexio]

I got through two pages of this, before giving up. Suffice to say that the point at which it is trivial to determine whether a heal is right or wrong is a split second before the heal lands, NOT as the heal is cast.

Random mechanics in encounters mean that incoming damage is not predictable and therefore, what was the optimal spell at the time you started casting may not be by the time it lands.

Therefore, OP is wrong.

---------- Post added 2011-01-24 at 10:34 AM ----------

Trivaility = Tg(Ts)/Hs(Hg) (d/l(mt))^5

Tg tank gear
Ts tank skill
Hs healer skill
Hg healer gear
d difficulty
t time
m mistakes
l lagg

Isn't this saying that as Healer Gear and Skill goes up, Triviality lowers? i.e. Difficulty increases?