Cower can miss

[Tinderhoof]

I haven't seen this come up in any prior posts so I figured I would ask here. As Cower is the feral's only threat dump other then [Rebirth] I was hoping it was going to be a little more reliable. The ability itself seems to act like a melee swing. You must be in melee range and it has the same positional issues. So far I have seen Cower dodged, parried, missed and blocked.

The usual answers are:
1. "Well do it behind the mob". This would be easier to do if we didn't have raid bosses like Al'Akir which being behind is not something that is realistic.
2. "Get more hit/exp". I would if those were not the worst feral stats.
3. "Watch omen and back off". So far I have only pulled once off the tank and it was the first week of raiding. However with some of the very tight enrage timers involved for heroics this is also not optimal.

Since Cower has been useless for so long it maybe this is how it's always been. But with current content and the change to make it useful again I figure it should at least be dependable. Am I wrong to assume that no other class's threat dumps miss, or be ineffective?

[Quag]

feral's only threat dump other then [Rebirth]

i loled. yes i have experienced the same problem, but to be honest cower is so much better than it used to be im not that going to complain least they revert to the old mechanic. Traditionally, at high gear levels cower reduced your threat less than the ammount a single melee autoattack generated, so if you hit it during a boss fight your threat would actually go up as you meleed the boss during the cd

your point is a valid one if indeed other classes threat dumps cant miss, but im not 100% sure to be honest. i know a mages invisibility cant be 'resisted' but can a hunters feign death be?

[Samyaaza]

Seriously if you manage to pull aggro off tank first let's say 5-10 seconds, you're dumb. If you manage to pull aggro after that your tank is dumb.

[shags the penguin]

It can idd miss ect... however
Cant block from behind and cant parry from behind, ofc sometimes you cant get behind, but its not like its a long CD...10 seconds. you are right to guess that other classes threat dumps cant miss (maybe FD can be resisted, it could at one point also shamans )

Expertise and hit do solve it even if its not convenient.

I dont think you can ask for a dependable threat drop when its such a low CD ? Remember not all classes / specs have threat reduction ability.
If threat is become vital that cower works then you are using it at the wrong times and also 10 seconds of NO dps till its off CD is hardly bad.

Also who has threat issues these days ? Tanks doing equal dps on some fights kinda makes threat a N/a factor.

[Quag]

Seriously if you manage to pull aggro off tank first let's say 5-10 seconds, you're dumb. If you manage to pull aggro after that your tank is dumb.

harsh and not true. we wouldnt have been given an agro dump, or had it overhauled to actually work as a proper % agro dump if tanks were designed so that dps classes would not need to manage their threat in ways other than not attacking.

His question is a valid one, no need to hurl unwarrented abuse. To the OP - is cower the 'only' threat dump that can be resisted?

[Merlocker]

it works exactly like the rogue ability feint which can miss dodge parry etc

[Tinderhoof]

Seriously if you manage to pull aggro off tank first let's say 5-10 seconds, you're dumb. If you manage to pull aggro after that your tank is dumb.

Well to throw out a few examples. Magmaw for instance. When the tank is Mangled "Picked Up in his mouth" he is producing no threat. When Magmaw drops the tank their threat level is put on par with the highest threat producer (usually me). This requires a quick cower to not be eaten when he is dropped. If the cower misses even if I stop attacking the bleed can put me over and I get eaten. If he turns around to do his random fireball at someone it can get parried.

Chimaron is another good example. Because you are able to shred from the front during his feud phase I have been able to catch up to the tanks. I have never pulled here, but it really hurts when phase 3 starts and I am attempting to cower on cooldown. 2 misses in a row will get me eaten if the tank dies. It's way better to have a range get the aggro here as they can kite him away.

Al'Akir. If the MT gets picked up by the squawl line (I know he sucks if he does) the add tank taunts which gives him just over my threat (still usually #2). If I don't cower quick I will pull even if I am just letting bleeds tick.

To the OP - is cower the 'only' threat dump that can be resisted?

I'm not sure about this one. One of the reasons I posted was to find out if I was incorrect about assuming that others are automatic. One thing to take into account though is while its a 10 second cooldown its only 10%. That becomes better as the fight goes on, but most every other theat dumb I can think of is 100%. Pali's is the only other one I can think of that isn't and isnt' it a 30 second cooldown and can be cast on anyone. I know for sure this spell can't miss or be avoided.

[Duilliath]

Well to throw out a few examples. Magmaw for instance. When the tank is Mangled "Picked Up in his mouth" he is producing no threat. When Magmaw drops the tank their threat level is put on par with the highest threat producer (usually me). This requires a quick cower to not be eaten when he is dropped. If the cower misses even if I stop attacking the bleed can put me over and I get eaten. If he turns around to do his random fireball at someone it can get parried.

There's a threat reset. Cower won't save your fuzzy behind if bleeds get you aggro.

Chimaron is another good example. Because you are able to shred from the front during his feud phase I have been able to catch up to the tanks. I have never pulled here, but it really hurts when phase 3 starts and I am attempting to cower on cooldown. 2 misses in a row will get me eaten if the tank dies. It's way better to have a range get the aggro here as they can kite him away.

It's way better to not have the tank die in the first place.

Al'Akir. If the MT gets picked up by the squawl line (I know he sucks if he does) the add tank taunts which gives him just over my threat (still usually #2). If I don't cower quick I will pull even if I am just letting bleeds tick.

Bolded the important part.

Simple fact is, tank threat currently is fine if you have halfway decent tanks and you don't blow your cooldowns in the first second.

[Arielle]

Simple fact is, tank threat currently is fine if you have halfway decent tanks and you don't blow your cooldowns in the first second.

This is completely accurate.

[bosla]

It can miss... Tho , really ? just dont Charge/ravage/berserk in first 5 sec and you should be fine if your tank has half of the braincells still alive...

[Spl4sh3r]

If you are having this problem with threat I don't see why you just don't start using Cower sooner instead of waiting until you need it. You seem to get high on threat alot otherwise this wouldn't be an issue at all. There isn't really that many other options. Asking Rogues/Hunters to misdirect to Tank wouldn't help in the long run either seeing how the threat isn't even permanent.

[Tigercat]

I tried to use my threat dump on my warrior once, but instead I just crit a priest's guardian spirit cooldown.

Just be glad you have a threat dump, who cares if it has to deal with the same hit table everything else does?

[sheaebay]

do you raid with any paladins? Just ask for blessing of salvation. and yes if the tank cant keep threat there is a good chance something is wrong. On my paladin i have like 2% hit and 11 expertise and no one even comes close.

I suppose your tank can get some more hit/expertise if its a HUGE problem, but he shouldnt have to

[Kabbalah]

harsh and not true. we wouldnt have been given an agro dump, or had it overhauled to actually work as a proper % agro dump if tanks were designed so that dps classes would not need to manage their threat in ways other than not attacking.

His question is a valid one, no need to hurl unwarrented abuse. To the OP - is cower the 'only' threat dump that can be resisted?

Threat does matter, true. Gone are times where a tank could go afk after getting MDed. He has to work for aggro. But if he does it right, no dps should pull aggro after the first few seconds unless he is outgearing the tank.

[Slavemaker]

.
2. "Get more hit/exp". I would if those were not the worst feral stats.

I am having a hard time believing this.... Care to explain.

[Quag]

ok asked a few ppl in guild about this. from what i understand a rogues feint and a hunters feign death both can be resisted/fail, but a mages invisibility is a garenteed threat dump, and to be fair rogues do have the option to vanish which also works. The % element of this buff makes it pretty powerful and you are right in how its effectivness increases as the fight goes on.

i dont think this is an issue that requires a fix, as although i know most ferals now arecompletely disregarding hit i think as the raiding progresses our hit will increase naturally and this will become less of an issue. i know for myself i tend to try to work it into my rotation on fights exactly as you have described before it is 'needed'. aka i try to pop it about 10 secs before Magmaw eats the tank so that i become 3rd on threat if you understand my meaning, but if i get 2/3 misses in a row bleeds ensure my quick demise.

but as i origiinally stated, im just happy the basic mechanic works, even with miss's being an pain in the neck its one we share with other rogues/hunters

---------- Post added 2011-01-15 at 01:25 AM ----------

I am having a hard time believing this.... Care to explain.

sort of a long explination, look at mihirs cat dps sticky for a full explination but in a nutshell
due t only 12% of our dps comming from white hits and a passive 80% refund on all missed specials hit and expertise are almost always the worst possible choice and a dps loss for ferals to gem/enchant/gear for.

[Slavemaker]

Fair enough, that makes sense.

[Winterhoof]

if your tank is competent you should NEVER have to touch Cower.

In fact, I took Cower off my bars. Its a waste of a spot for something that happens quite literally 2% of the time.

[Tinderhoof]

i dont think this is an issue that requires a fix, as although i know most ferals now arecompletely disregarding hit i think as the raiding progresses our hit will increase naturally and this will become less of an issue. i know for myself i tend to try to work it into my rotation on fights exactly as you have described before it is 'needed'. aka i try to pop it about 10 secs before Magmaw eats the tank so that i become 3rd on threat if you understand my meaning, but if i get 2/3 misses in a row bleeds ensure my quick demise.

but as i origiinally stated, im just happy the basic mechanic works, even with miss's being an pain in the neck its one we share with other rogues/hunters

I am happy when it works as well. I have not competly forgone hit. I have over 600 because I end up having to interupt for the Nef fight (yes in my 25 man raid I still interupt). As I have said before I don't pull aggro that much, often I just turn off auto attack and leave range when cower misses. It really sucks as I am a kitty tank for Heroic Halfus. I am taking the debuff while the real Halfus tank is letting his drop. During the off times I am trying to do dps to help beat the enrage timer. After he taunts and I attempt a cower if it misses (which I got 3 misses in a row) I am unable to do anything but auto attack. This may not be the best setup but its what we've got.

This isn't a terrible issue. It sucks sometimes when I have to sit and do nothing on tight fights, but I do pretty well for my self and my gear level. I try to steal a HoS when I can, but often it gets used on our DPS warriors, and our Ret pali's are using it for themselves. Again its not like I pull off every boss, just kinda sucks to have a button that still on occasion fails me.