No difference between the forsaken and the worgen?

[Davrul]

Can someone please enlighten me on what the differences are between the savage worgen and the forsaken?

Taken from wowwiki:

About the worgen:

These creatures are thoroughly evil, delighting in torturing and devouring intelligent creatures. They enjoy hearing the screams of their victims as they tear them apart piece by piece. Worgen never show mercy or remorse.

Also both races was "cursed", and as the forsaken was mindcontrolled by by the Lich King killing their families and Allies, the worgen did EXACTLY the same to their allies, both broke free, but its easier to forgive worgens for what they did then it is to forgive the forsaken? Stupid humans if u ask me..

[Combatbutler]

Can someone please enlighten me on what the differences are between the savage worgen and the forsaken?

Taken from wowwiki:

About the worgen:

These creatures are thoroughly evil, delighting in torturing and devouring intelligent creatures. They enjoy hearing the screams of their victims as they tear them apart piece by piece. Worgen never show mercy or remorse.

Also both races was "cursed", and as the forsaken was mindcontrolled by by the Lich King killing their families and Allies, the worgen did EXACTLY the same to their allies, both broke free, but its easier to forgive worgens for what they did then it is to forgive the forsaken? Stupid humans if u ask me..

The worgen you mean are savage and unable to control their inner beasts, while the gilnean worgen can control themselves and still have their humanity, while forsaken chose to abandon most of their humanity and embraced what they became(Nasty killers) and both races continue to spread their curse

[Herrenos]

Gilnean worgen =/= classical worgen. Read up on it. The only people the gilnean worgen have hurt is other gilneans. Since now all the gilneans are either dead or worgen, there's no one left to hate them.

At this point, what with death knights, the argent crusade and the like, I think the real problem humans have with the forsaken is that they're horde, and their methods of war.

You're the same person who just started the "forsaken are NOT evil" thread, though. I think you're trying to push a point here.

[Davrul]

The worgen you mean are savage and unable to control their inner beasts, while the gilnean worgen can control themselves and still have their humanity, while forsaken chose to abandon most of their humanity and embraced what they became(Nasty killers) and both races continue to spread their curse

Thats not true. When the forsaken broke free, many went home to their families and friends, sadly they wanted nothing with them anylonger, as they were seen as monsters even though they could controll themselfs just as the worgens can.

[Bombkirby]

He DOES have a point. Maybe its cuz Gilneans can turn into Humans whenever they want to. They aren't stuck being ugly like Forsaken. XD

[blackangel209]

The only people the gilnean worgen have hurt is other gilneans. Since now all the gilneans are either dead or worgen, there's no one left to hate them.

What I gather from this is that the Forsaken should clearly kill every living human(or at least the entirety of Stormwind) and then everyone could be happy.

[Combatbutler]

Thats not true. When the forsaken broke free, many went home to their families and friends, sadly they wanted nothing with them anylonger, as they were seen as monsters even though they could controll themselfs just as the worgens can.

But in the end they chose not to and they no longer dwell their former lives on the contrary they plan for their future, which means the eradication of any alliance presence in Lordaeron to establish their kingdom.

[saberon]

But in the end they chose not to and they no longer dwell their former lives on the contrary they plan for their future, which means the eradication of any alliance presence in Lordaeron to establish their kingdom.

So because they plan on defeating their sworn enemy, they are evil?


Worgen are savage beasts. Gilnean worgens are not.
Undead are mindless monsters. Forsaken are not.

[Combatbutler]

So because they plan on defeating their sworn enemy, they are evil?

Nope its not that they want to defeat their sworn enemy its the way they want to defeat them which is lawful evil :
A being who gains power through methodically destroying others is lawful evil. Power comes through order, but one can be orderly about slaughtering innocents.

And the gilneans had just one problem, Garrosh wanted a new port so the forsaken had to invade.

[Davrul]

But in the end they chose not to and they no longer dwell their former lives on the contrary they plan for their future, which means the eradication of any alliance presence in Lordaeron to establish their kingdom.

They chose not to because the alliance turned their backs on them, it was not a choice it was either get killed or fight back. And Lordaeron belongs to the forsaken as they are the rightfully citiziens.

[Necronium]

So because they plan on defeating their sworn enemy, they are evil?


Worgen are savage beasts. Gilnean worgens are not.
Undead are mindless monsters. Forsaken are not.

THIS ^ Soooooo much of this.

[saberon]

Nope its not that they want to defeat their sworn enemy its the way they want to defeat them which is lawful evil :
A being who gains power through methodically destroying others is lawful evil. Power comes through order, but one can be orderly about slaughtering innocents.

And the gilneans had just one problem, Garrosh wanted a new port so the forsaken had to invade.

Wait, so because the Forsaken are methodically destroying their enemy they are evil? Whereas if they just winged it they'd be the good guys?

It seems like people think the Forsaken are evil just because they are undead, and then they use their actions to validate this idea, rather than use their actions to create an objective view of them.

You can take any race in WoW and use their actions to justify the idea of them being evil or "villains". But the truth of the matter is they are neither evil or good, they simply "are".

And the forsaken didn't invade Gilneas just because Garrosh wanted a new port. They invaded it because an entire faction of human/worgen decided to join their sworn enemy, and they just happen to be situated right next to their capital city, allowing the Alliance a port within a stone's throw of Lordaeron.

If the Forsaken hadn't invaded Gilneas, Undercity would be besieged at this very moment.

And why? Because Humans insist that Lordaeron, the nation they abandoned, belongs to them. They see its native citizens as monsters living where they don't belong.
They are in fact not monsters, but sentient beings, who died defending their homes, were shunned and outcast by those they once loved, and are feared and hunted by half of Azeroth. Sentient beings whose home is threatened by those who abandoned them in life, and now seek to destroy them in death.

You say they are evil. I say you deserve everything they dish out.

[Combatbutler]

They chose not to because the alliance turned their backs on them, it was not a choice it was either get killed or fight back. And Lordaeron belongs to the forsaken as they are the rightfully citiziens.

There are survivors in Stormwind as well so both sides has claims and as i said before what makes the forsaken "evil" is the way they fight, not that they fight back

---------- Post added 2011-01-21 at 05:13 AM ----------

Wait, so because the Forsaken are methodically destroying their enemy they are evil? Whereas if they just winged it they'd be the good guys?

It seems like people think the Forsaken are evil just because they are undead, and then they use their actions to validate this idea, rather than use their actions to create an objective view of them.

You can take any race in WoW and use their actions to justify the idea of them being evil or "villains". But the truth of the matter is they are neither evil or good, they simply "are".

And the forsaken didn't invade Gilneas just because Garrosh wanted a new port. They invaded it because an entire faction of human/worgen decided to join their sworn enemy, and they just happen to be situated right next to their capital city, allowing the Alliance a port within a stone's throw of Lordaeron.

If the Forsaken hadn't invaded, Undercity would be besieged at this very moment.

Gilneas had no intention of joining the Alliance before the invasion

[Deleted]

Thats not true. When the forsaken broke free, many went home to their families and friends, sadly they wanted nothing with them anylonger, as they were seen as monsters even though they could controll themselfs just as the worgens can.

No, that's wrong. The forsaken knew what they became and instead of returning home, they embraced what they became and worship Sylvanas for freeing/giving them a new life. Forsaken really don't give a damn what happens to the living atm. The only exception would be Lillian Voss, who thought she was still a normal human and when showed her own image, she refused to believe she became a forsaken until she tried to return to her father, which was a Fanatic of the Scarlet Crusade (who wish to exterminate all undeads and non-members of the Scarlet Crusade.) After she was faced with the hard truth, she embraced what she became and went on a killing spree in the camp where she lived.

Gilneans however hate what they became and are trying to search for a permanent solution (undoing the curse). I mean, if it wasn't for their arrogance, egotistical behavior, sense of pride of their city and culture and knowing that if they die that they would become forsaken and forced to destroy their own city, most of them would have committed suicide once they regained their humanity.
Take Godfrey, he threw himself of a cliff in order to avoid becoming a worgen. He got reanimated by Sylvanas and eventually killed her because of his Gilnean attitude and because he wanted to control the kingdom himself.
Gilneans feel like they're better than anyone or anything else, them being reduced to being savage beastmen is something that hurts their pride, they hate every fiber of their being, whilst Forsaken (undeads belonging to the faction of the forsaken. Godfrey himself isn't a Forsaken.) embrace what they became.

And yes, the Forsaken are evil. Gilneas was an isolated kingdom that refused to work with the Alliance until the Forsaken attacked them. Gilneas didn't mean anything to the Horde, they weren't their enemy, neither their ally. Garrosh just saw it being convenient to support the attack on Gilneas because it would mean a new port for the Horde (and because he is forced to do so, otherwise he would lose the Forsaken as his allies). If the Forsaken didn't attack in the first place, then Garrosh would have minimal interest in Gilneas.

Saberon: I lol at you saying that Gilneas was making plans to attack Undercity, Hah, have you even done the questlines there? No, you haven't, ignorant little sod. That's like saying that Belgium was planning to besiege Germany prior to WW1 while Belgium was actually neutral in Germany and France's little quarrel and was forced to work with France because Germany attacked them (altho, the Forsaken have completely different motives than Germany. Forsaken want to destroy every single human.)

The forsaken are evil because their current motives: "Death to the Scourge, Death to the living", they were unfortunate elves and humans that died defending their home from the Scourge. The current war between the Orcs and the Humans is based on old grudges. The orcs have been treated as animals previously and the humans their kingdoms were burned down by the orcs and they disgust eachother. The other races of the Horde need to support the Orcs in battle now because the Orcs helped them out before. But for the forsaken it is different.
Garrosh NEEDS to support the Forsaken in their war versus Gilneas because if he wouldn't, he would lose a powerful ally and the Forsaken would turn against him and then he has to deal with 2 armies at the same time, besides, even if he deals with the Forsaken first, with the "help" of the Alliance (who are taking advantage of the situation), then would have to deal with larger force of the Alliance afterwards.

However, the Forsaken can just leave the Horde if they want, they got what they wanted, why stay? Because they are exploiting the weak spot of the Horde in order to get rid of irrelevant kingdoms (such as Gilneas) so they could build up bigger armies by themselves. (Now they have Val'kyrs at their disposal). If the Forsaken cleared out Gilneas, killing every single one of them (and if the Gilneans didn't become worgen, because the Worgen curse makes you immune to reanimation abilities of a Val'kyr), they would have left the Horde after they reanimated all the dead bodies, because then they would have a big enough force in order to deal with the Horde and the Alliance at the same time.

[Davrul]

No, that's wrong. The forsaken knew what they became and instead of returning home, they embraced what they became and worship Sylvanas for freeing/giving them a new life. Forsaken really don't give a damn what happens to the living atm. The only exception would be Lillian Voss, who thought she was still a normal human and when showed her own image, she refused to believe she became a forsaken until she tried to return to her father, which was a Fanatic of the Scarlet Crusade (who wish to exterminate all undeads and non-members of the Scarlet Crusade.) After she was faced with the hard truth, she embraced what she became and went on a killing spree in the camp where she lived.

Gilneans however hate what they became and are trying to search for a permanent solution (undoing the curse). I mean, if it wasn't for their arrogance, egotistical behavior, sense of pride of their city and culture and knowing that if they die that they would become forsaken and forced to destroy their own city, most of them would have committed suicide once they regained their humanity.
Take Godfrey, he threw himself of a cliff in order to avoid becoming a worgen. He got reanimated by Sylvanas and eventually killed her because of his Gilnean attitude and because he wanted to control the kingdom himself.
Gilneans feel like they're better than anyone or anything else, them being reduced to being savage beastmen is something that hurts their pride, they hate every fiber of their being, whilst Forsaken (undeads belonging to the faction of the forsaken. Godfrey himself isn't a Forsaken.) embrace what they became.

And yes, the Forsaken are evil. Gilneas was an isolated kingdom that refused to work with the Alliance until the Forsaken attacked them. Gilneas didn't mean anything to the Horde, they weren't their enemy, neither their ally. Garrosh just saw it being convenient to support the attack on Gilneas because it would mean a new port for the Horde (and because he is forced to do so, otherwise he would lose the Forsaken as his allies). If the Forsaken didn't attack in the first place, then Garrosh would have minimal interest in Gilneas.

Many of the forsaken went home, it was after being rejected that they embraced their fate as "Monsters". Godfrey isent a good example, as he betrayed them all. Cool guy tho

[Deleted]

Many of the forsaken went home, it was after being rejected that they embraced their fate as "Monsters". Godfrey isent a good example, as he betrayed them all. Cool guy tho

Source? Oh wait, you have none. Do the Forsaken starting quests, there are a few people you need to ressurect and teach them what it means to become forsaken. One says something along the lives "Well, better a forsaken than nothing". The characters that refused to serve the banshee queen and rebelled against the Forsaken were quickly getting rid of (with the exception of Lillian Voss, since she didn't really rebel). And Forsaken are a FACTION of Undead, not a race. Undead that are risen and then died while never being part of the Forsaken cannot be considered Forsaken. Most of them say, "meh, fuck my previous life, i'll be serving the one that gave me new life!"

The Forsaken that actually went home were probably killed swiftly.

[Saturnalia]

And the forsaken didn't invade Gilneas just because Garrosh wanted a new port. They invaded it because an entire faction of human/worgen decided to join their sworn enemy, and they just happen to be situated right next to their capital city, allowing the Alliance a port within a stone's throw of Lordaeron.

If the Forsaken hadn't invaded Gilneas, Undercity would be besieged at this very moment.

And why? Because Humans insist that Lordaeron, the nation they abandoned, belongs to them. They see its native citizens as monsters living where they don't belong.
They are in fact not monsters, but sentient beings, who died defending their homes, were shunned and outcast by those they once loved, and are feared and hunted by half of Azeroth. Sentient beings whose home is threatened by those who abandoned them in life, and now seek to destroy them in death.

You say they are evil. I say you deserve everything they dish out.

Most of that is completely untrue. Though I do agree the Forsaken deserve Lordaeron despite living humans with equal claims to it, I view it as the majority died and were brought back as undead and those that became Forsaken have more of a claim to the land than the living survivors. Is it right to screw the living survivors? No, but someone is always shafted and I'm a Forsaken loyalist with a major bias. *Is ashamed* In this case, I believe the majority should have the land that was theirs in life, despite the living humans of Lordaeron.

---------- Post added 2011-01-21 at 07:15 AM ----------

Garrosh just saw it being convenient to support the attack on Gilneas because it would mean a new port for the Horde (and because he is forced to do so, otherwise he would lose the Forsaken as his allies). If the Forsaken didn't attack in the first place, then Garrosh would have minimal interest in Gilneas.

The forsaken are evil because their current motives: "Death to the Scourge, Death to the living", they were unfortunate elves and humans that died defending their home from the Scourge. The current war between the Orcs and the Humans is based on old grudges. The orcs have been treated as animals previously and the humans their kingdoms were burned down by the orcs and they disgust eachother. The other races of the Horde need to support the Orcs in battle now because the Orcs helped them out before. But for the forsaken it is different.
Garrosh NEEDS to support the Forsaken in their war versus Gilneas because- *snip*

Lore states (not sure if quests in game support what's on wowwiki/wowpedia) that Garrosh told Sylvanas to make up for the Wrath Gate incident, she needed to invade Gilneas. It wasn't her or the Forsaken's plans to at all, they did so to get in Garrosh's good graces.

"The Cataclysm has caused the gates of the Greymane Wall to shatter, which marked the end of Gilneas' isolationism from the rest of Azeroth. Due to the events at the Battle of Angrathar the Wrathgate, the Forsaken are "in the dog house" with the rest of the Horde and the Horde leadership, now controlled by Garrosh Hellscream, has ordered Sylvanas Windrunner to claim Gilneas so the Horde can have a port in southern Lordaeron."

(Source, Cataclysm's trailer on the WoW site. Also wowpedia for providing the writing for me.)