Fear the Frost Mage.

[whyumadbro]

I can't help but feel as if I should just LET a mage kill me now. Druids no longer being able to break frost nova and mages getting a 15% ice lance increase seems fishy to me.. Anyone else think blizz hates ferals?!

[pomop]

Anyone else think blizz hates ferals?!

You were able to instantly get out of roots for 6~ years, and now blizzard takes it away. You think they hate you? Be glad you can still get out of slowing effects.

- So yeah. Feel free to let the mage kill you. hey kill all melee except prot warriors. (mwahaha!)

But seriously, Blizzard doesn't hate feral. Wow changes. This is one of those changes. Frost mages are indeed overpowered, and the Ice Lance damage is going to be relatively the same since apparently you never read anything else about the changes to frost. Their mastery is getting nerfed.
I just wish there was a way to differentiate ally ring of frosts and enemy ring of frosts. It's annoying as hell in battlegrounds having 4 ring of frosts up at once and not knowing which 2 belong to your allys.

[Rudy]

blizz isn t buffing ice lance for 15% they removed the 15% damage from mastery (or somewhere else) and added damage when they are in finger of frost. Pratically you ll see more mages using frostbolt and icelance only when in finger of frost and maybe when freezed. The only damage that has been buffed is frostbolt 1

(i play druid btw)

[crayven]

I can't help but feel as if I should just LET a mage kill me now. Druids no longer being able to break frost nova and mages getting a 15% ice lance increase seems fishy to me.. Anyone else think blizz hates ferals?!

The 'funny' teams of 2x frost mage + X class already have started popping up.
Me and my warrior friend simply decided not to give them a good fight simply because they were playing fotm classes.
Same will be after 4.0.6

Dual frost mage?...lol

[whyumadbro]

You were able to instantly get out of roots for 6~ years, and now blizzard takes it away. .

That's my point exactly. I haven't played a druid for all 6 years. Just the last 2, but dang, I'm so used to it. This is a change that will take a while to get used too >.<

[Cadell]

Ferals are doing crazy damage, and for 4 years now, you've gotten out of any trap/snare. Go whine more man, seriously.

[pomop]

That's my point exactly. I haven't played a druid for all 6 years. Just the last 2, but dang, I'm so used to it. This is a change that will take a while to get used too >.<

Yep. Unfortunately that's what happens when things change. Hunters got focus, paladins got holy power and arms warriors are getting charge and intercept on the same CD. They had (and need) to learn to go with the changes and how to use them effectively. \

The 'funny' teams of 2x frost mage + X class already have started popping up.
Me and my warrior friend simply decided not to give them a good fight simply because they were playing fotm classes.
Same will be after 4.0.6

Dual frost mage?...lol

As a prot war I can solo a frost mage, it's very entertaining going up against a mage that thinks he's going to insta-win only to end up dead while I'm at full health. (<3 cooldowns)


- good night all. My brain is half afk from reality.

[whyumadbro]

Ferals are doing crazy damage, and for 4 years now, you've gotten out of any trap/snare. Go whine more man, seriously.

I'm not whining. I just feel like they took our signature move away.

[Rayzan]

Yep. Unfortunately that's what happens when things change. Hunters got focus, paladins got holy power and arms warriors are getting charge and intercept on the same CD. They had (and need) to learn to go with the changes and how to use to them

Although I agree those are changes, none of them (except warrior) change the effectiveness of that class verse any other class. That's like saying "ferals no longer break roots!" "yea well locks have 3 SS's now!". They just don't compare. Ferals have to run with a dispeller or a pally now which IMO a class should never have to rely on something like that to be effective in pvp.

[Lionhearte0]

Ferals are doing crazy damage, and for 4 years now, you've gotten out of any trap/snare. Go whine more man, seriously.

First off, it's been 6 years. Now, can you tell me out of how many of those years Ferals have been PvP viable?

You can't. Ferals have never been PvP viable. The only thing we've been good at is running away with our tails between our legs. That's all we've been able to do for the last 6 years. Now that we are finally able to compete in PvP, and with the surge of Ferals popping up in BGs, people don't know what they're up against.

When you see a Warlock, what's the first thing that comes to mind? Fears.
When you see a Hunter, what do you assume? He's gonna kite you and jump around the field.
When you see a Mage, you're gonna be looking out for ice lance/shatter.
When you see a Rogue, you know he's gonna stun you.

But now all of a sudden, Ferals started popping up, and wtf do they do? No one knows because they've never played against them before. Ferals pop their cooldowns and go apeshit on someone, and they have the gall to cry "Nerf!"

Guess what? Any class can pop all of it's cooldowns and destroy you, but you've learned how to handle other classes, not ferals. Again, because we've never been as PvP viable as we are now.

But "whining"? Where do you even get the nerve to say that? Do you have ANY idea what Ferals have been through?

When back in Vanilla, if we wanted to raid, we HAD to be Resto?
When Feral sets didn't exist, and we were forced to use blue offset pieces meant for rogues (back when Strength was our best dps stat) from AQ20 and ZG?
When Druids couldn't kill anything in a BG, but it was OK because we could run away?
When the only Legendary available to us was IMPOSSIBLE to get, because, again, we had to raid as Resto? (Sulfuras)

We've learned to deal with shit like this for the last 6 years. We sit on the sidelines while all the other classes and specs become fotm. So you know what?
We have every fucking right to whine.

[leaks]

First off, it's been 6 years. Now, can you tell me out of how many of those years Ferals have been PvP viable?

You can't. Ferals have never been PvP viable. The only thing we've been good at is running away with our tails between our legs. That's all we've been able to do for the last 6 years. Now that we are finally able to compete in PvP, and with the surge of Ferals popping up in BGs, people don't know what they're up against.

When you see a Warlock, what's the first thing that comes to mind? Fears.
When you see a Hunter, what do you assume? He's gonna kite you and jump around the field.
When you see a Mage, you're gonna be looking out for ice lance/shatter.
When you see a Rogue, you know he's gonna stun you.

But now all of a sudden, Ferals started popping up, and wtf do they do? No one knows because they've never played against them before. Ferals pop their cooldowns and go apeshit on someone, and they have the gall to cry "Nerf!"

Guess what? Any class can pop all of it's cooldowns and destroy you, but you've learned how to handle other classes, not ferals. Again, because we've never been as PvP viable as we are now.

But "whining"? Where do you even get the nerve to say that? Do you have ANY idea what Ferals have been through?

When back in Vanilla, if we wanted to raid, we HAD to be Resto?
When Feral sets didn't exist, and we were forced to use blue offset pieces meant for rogues (back when Strength was our best dps stat) from AQ20 and ZG?
When Druids couldn't kill anything in a BG, but it was OK because we could run away?
When the only Legendary available to us was IMPOSSIBLE to get, because, again, we had to raid as Resto? (Sulfuras)

We've learned to deal with shit like this for the last 6 years. We sit on the sidelines while all the other classes and specs become fotm. So you know what?
We have every fucking right to whine.

And whine you did

[Shornaal]

And whine you did

That sounded a well-reasoned whine to me.

To the OP: ice lance has NOT been buffed, that 15% you see is to compensate the fact that frost mages will get only 2 base mastery points instead of 8. That PTR fix was made to keep ice lance's damage on par with live.

[pomop]

First off, it's been 6 years. Now, can you tell me out of how many of those years Ferals have been PvP viable?

You can't. Ferals have never been PvP viable. The only thing we've been good at is running away with our tails between our legs. That's all we've been able to do for the last 6 years. Now that we are finally able to compete in PvP, and with the surge of Ferals popping up in BGs, people don't know what they're up against.

When you see a Warlock, what's the first thing that comes to mind? Fears.
When you see a Hunter, what do you assume? He's gonna kite you and jump around the field.
When you see a Mage, you're gonna be looking out for ice lance/shatter.
When you see a Rogue, you know he's gonna stun you.

But now all of a sudden, Ferals started popping up, and wtf do they do? No one knows because they've never played against them before. Ferals pop their cooldowns and go apeshit on someone, and they have the gall to cry "Nerf!"

Guess what? Any class can pop all of it's cooldowns and destroy you, but you've learned how to handle other classes, not ferals. Again, because we've never been as PvP viable as we are now.

But "whining"? Where do you even get the nerve to say that? Do you have ANY idea what Ferals have been through?

When back in Vanilla, if we wanted to raid, we HAD to be Resto?
When Feral sets didn't exist, and we were forced to use blue offset pieces meant for rogues (back when Strength was our best dps stat) from AQ20 and ZG?
When Druids couldn't kill anything in a BG, but it was OK because we could run away?
When the only Legendary available to us was IMPOSSIBLE to get, because, again, we had to raid as Resto? (Sulfuras)

We've learned to deal with shit like this for the last 6 years. We sit on the sidelines while all the other classes and specs become fotm. So you know what?
We have every fucking right to whine.

That's true. However, ferals are overpowered. You can't deny it. Ferals crit me (a tank) for 20k. They also basically have a perma slow on you if they are attacking you. I don't know what it's called, but it's a disease.

I consider feral druids what rogues would be without stuns. (Even though feral druids have a stun (Also I mean how blizzard would compensate removing stuns from rogues.))

oh btw, feral was viable in wotlk. My friend and I pwnd for awhile as feral druid / arms war. I sucked bad back then so I told him to go get another arena team.


edit - Also, rogues that can turn into prot warriors when they choose to.

[brutnus]

well before everyone got 3k resilience i agree feral was OP.

Paladins and Shaman healers with 3k resilience cannot be killed. I cant get a crit over 10k on them. Seriously dual a holy paladin with 3k resilience. and try to quote, "Blow them up." you can forget it.

[Canada42]

They just don't compare. Ferals have to run with a dispeller or a pally now which IMO a class should never have to rely on something like that to be effective in pvp.

Um... welcome to melee? Ferals and ret's were the only melee that DIDN'T have to run with a dispeller. Warriors, rogues, DK's, enh shammy, all required somebody else to clear their roots, and still can't clear snares.

[terrih91]

I just wish there was a way to differentiate ally ring of frosts and enemy ring of frosts. It's annoying as hell in battlegrounds having 4 ring of frosts up at once and not knowing which 2 belong to your allys.

i agree 100% its very annoying in like strands were im trying to peel people off demos and i walk into 3 ring of frosts and take a guess of which is whos... perhaps the friendly one should be blue and the enemy red? makes the most sense right?

[Lionhearte0]

That's true. However, ferals are overpowered. You can't deny it. Ferals crit me (a tank) for 20k. They also basically have a perma slow on you if they are attacking you. I don't know what it's called, but it's a disease.

I consider feral druids what rogues would be without stuns. (Even though feral druids have a stun (Also I mean how blizzard would compensate removing stuns from rogues.))

oh btw, feral was viable in wotlk. My friend and I pwnd for awhile as feral druid / arms war. I sucked bad back then so I told him to go get another arena team.


edit - Also, rogues that can turn into prot warriors when they choose to.

They were viable in WotLK, it was our golden age - when Blizz separated us from being Hybrids all throughout BC. I meant to say that with Cataclysm, we are more viable than ever before. Our rotation is relaxed so that newcomers to the spec do not feel overwhelmed.

I can't deny that Feral damage is high - which is why Blizzard honestly doesn't know what they're doing. In the last Blue update we got on this whole matter, they said that they were increasing Feral damage as compensation.

Now, to anyone else who doesn't understand this, how many people complained about Ferals breaking snares/roots before this nerf? No one. It was always "Too much damage", so Blizzard is fixing this by nerfing our core ability and increasing our damage.

Simply put, we’ve been moving away from hard counters such as when one class is completely immune to the control mechanics of another class. Druids, unlike other classes in PvP, were too easily able to be self-dependent without the need of any additional support from any class and were capable of avoiding these control mechanics. To counter the cost of this change, we have added additional damage output to druids. Feral druids are now doing very legitimate damage.

- Nethaera
http://blue.mmo-champion.com/topic/1...ove-powershift

[Rezman]

Did you READ the blue post???

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/to...818?page=6#116

We did buff Frost Bolt. And we did buff Ice Lance when Fingers of Frost is up. However, we've decreased all Frost damage to Frozen targets by about 15% from previous values. The net result is intended to be that Frost Bolt is a little better against non-Frozen targets, and about the same versus Frozen targets. Ice Lance with FoF is still good, but Ice lance damage against Frozen targets is down a bit.

The intent isn't to nerf PvE frost at all, but instead reward Frost Bolt use in PvP a bit more, and reduce the damage and effectiveness of Ice Lance in PvP.

The important take away here is that datamined changes from pre-release builds and tests are not accurate ways for you to get information on intended game adjustments. Take it with a grain of salt, and approach it with a giant cup of curiosity.

[Deleted]

Frost Mages will be nerfed be both buffed and nerfed. Positives and Negatives included. But for feral druids, they will suck even more than they do right now.

If you ever have played against a GOOD Frost Mage, you will notice that the diminishing returns from his freeze will go down to like 1 second.
As Rezman stated, Blizzard buffed Frost Bolt against FROZEN targets. With diminishing returns on freeze's down on ~1 second, they wont even be able to cast a Frost Bolt. Ofcourse making us not be able to shapeshift out of the first freezes will be a pain in the ass, but really, you wont see that kiting with icelance spam anymore. You will still be able to shapeshift out of his Frost Bolt slow effect, which is good indeed.

What Blizzard did was to make mages not do icelance ones your frozen, but to instead, use a frost bolt.

This can in some situations be winning to you. Before, mages could just run out of range for you and spamm icelance on the way, freezing you with all he could. But now instead, he will stop by in a close range (not attackable by you ofcourse) and use a frostbolt. You will have range (possibly) to skull bash him, interupting him for 4 seconds.

Already at this stage, as soon as we see a freeze effect on us, we immidiately shapeshift. That won't happen in the future.

Will I be the only one who will still TRY to shapeshift out of freezes?!?! ^^

[Deleted]

well before everyone got 3k resilience i agree feral was OP.

Paladins and Shaman healers with 3k resilience cannot be killed. I cant get a crit over 10k on them. Seriously dual a holy paladin with 3k resilience. and try to quote, "Blow them up." you can forget it.

No valid argument at all . Nobody can "blow" them up. What is exactly the reason Ferals should ? Ferals are melee dps. Treat them the same.