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  1. #21
    Stood in the Fire ODDLAWL's Avatar
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    4 piece is not just "for the players that can't manage their mana" its just a FREE extra spirit tbh, Holy priests are constantly in a chakra state anyway, and the itemization for the headpiece and chestpiece, is quite bad but there's one piece from the 4p (considering you're going for helm offpiece) that has crit which is completely retarded for us, but gloves have mastery, legs have mastery, and shoulders have haste. Haste and mastery are NOT bad for us, the loss of haste can be reforged and itemized into i.e getting the helm, cloak, neck off valiona/theralion, bracers off atramedes, ring off omnotron, belt off either rep or council of winds, and boots with VP (that's a lot of haste, especially if you also reforge into it).

    I'm personally going for the 4p because that's is sincerely what I think, free spirit? yeah sure give me it. I don't have mana problems, I don't get fed innervates, and I'm rarely in the mana tide totem group so its not because I'm running out of mana that I'm going for it, its just because it'll give me even more throughput than what I already have. Again its what I think, call me a nub if you wish
    Last edited by ODDLAWL; 2011-01-21 at 10:20 PM.

  2. #22
    The 4p as Holy is a requirement of any solid set. Not because you need 540 more Spirit, but because you do not need 540 more Spirit. You get that 540 Spirit for free on the gear. You take Shoulders/Chest/Legs/Gloves which are Spirit/Haste, or Spirit/Mastery with the exception of the chest, which is Spirit/Crit. You reforge the Crit to Haste. This leaves you with 131 Crit. So you are paying 131 secondary stats for +540 Spirit. This is 540 Spirit you can then reforge off if your needs permit. This then would leave you with the same Spirit as you had without the bonus, but with 540 extra Haste/Mastery.

    I personally wouldn't do this and would instead focus more on Haste than on Mastery which will allow you to make use of more regen as your regen needs will rise as your Haste rises. Also if you're not spamming yet, start. Adjust gear accordingly. Welcome to Wrath of the Cataclysm.

  3. #23
    Brewmaster Mazi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by [-Spiritus-] View Post
    I honestly never bought the argument that more regen = more throughput b/c I can cast a larger number of higher throughput, but less efficient spells.

    None of the top priest healers I know think like this at all. Instead they think of regen like, "For any given damage pattern, there is x-sequence of heals that is the most efficient counter. What is the minimum amount of regen that I need to counter a given encounter's damage patterns with y number of x-sequences over z minutes so I may focus the remainder of that item budget into throughput, boosting the power of my efficient counter?"
    I was just trying to explain it in a simple manner. Most people do not play like the above.

    This thread wasn't about the "top priests" and "top raiding guilds" because they generally do things differently seeing as they do just about everything in much less gear than most do. Idk, I'm tired today.

    540 free spirit > a bit of itemization from other misc items most of the time, imo.

  4. #24
    I'm inclined to agree with Mazi and others on the argument. You really can't makeup that 540 elsewhere without gimping your output. Using jar to make up the regen doesnt seem like a solid trade when you are losing the 321 int or w/e on a trinket that provides near the same ammount of regen, and all you gain is some haste/mastery etc which wont makeup for that loss.

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Mazi View Post
    540 free spirit > a bit of itemization from other misc items most of the time, imo.
    Yeah, its just plainly tits hot for Holy. The only stat that I wouldn't sacrifice for the 4pc as holy is INT.

  6. #26
    Intellect > Spirit > Mastery >= Haste > Crit
    I disagree. I believe stat priority is Intellect > Spirit > Haste > Mastery > Crit (until you have solid regen then haste bumps to 2nd)

    The way I see it, mastery isn't a valuable stat to seek until we can easily attain 25%-30% Echo of Light procs without sacrificing other stats.

  7. #27
    High Overlord The Pwii's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by [-Spiritus-] View Post
    Yeah, its just plainly tits hot for Holy. The only stat that I wouldn't sacrifice for the 4pc as holy is INT.
    This, pretty much.

    People need to step back and look at that, especially for holy. 540 spirit, especially with 60s chakras coming? As long as you're not dropping Int for it, can you really have too much mana regen? Really?

    moTheory - My new website where I overthink games. (WIP)

  8. #28
    Brewmaster Mazi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crunkosaurus View Post
    I disagree. I believe stat priority is Intellect > Spirit > Haste > Mastery > Crit (until you have solid regen then haste bumps to 2nd)

    The way I see it, mastery isn't a valuable stat to seek until we can easily attain 25%-30% Echo of Light procs without sacrificing other stats.
    Haste vs Mastery is really a preference (after 12.5% haste raid buffed). You can go either way and be just fine in throughput. A lot relies on what healers you have in your raid group even. If you look at my armory I'm reforged all into haste.

  9. #29
    Following the logic of INT>SPI>HASTE(12.5)>MASTERY/HASTE>CRIT, 4 set bonus is superior to any of-set setup you can have.

    So to that guy saying that he can accumulate 200 haste/mastery rather than 540 spirit;

    540 spi > 200 haste/mastery that is of course considering the fact that you are doing heroics. Healing normals is pretty easy and having 540 additional spirit post 2400 unbuffed spirit doesn't really effect your performance (in normals).

    Feel free to comment.

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by harky View Post
    This is 540 Spirit you can then reforge off if your needs permit. This then would leave you with the same Spirit as you had without the bonus, but with 540 extra Haste/Mastery.
    This pretty much sums up why it's a no-brainer to take the 4pc. Let's say you have no mana issues now. Without the 4pc you can find you can afford to reforge x of y spirit on gear to the throughput stat(s) of your choosing while maintaining sufficient regen. With the 4pc you can reforge (x + 540) of y spirit to the throughput stat(s) of your choosing. So even if you don't need the regen of the 4pc vs other off-set piece, going for the 4pc still provides the ability to ability to maintain the same level of regen while increasing preferred stats to a greater degree than those offset pieces could supply.

  11. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by Bigslick View Post
    This pretty much sums up why it's a no-brainer to take the 4pc. Let's say you have no mana issues now. Without the 4pc you can find you can afford to reforge x of y spirit on gear to the throughput stat(s) of your choosing while maintaining sufficient regen. With the 4pc you can reforge (x + 540) of y spirit to the throughput stat(s) of your choosing. So even if you don't need the regen of the 4pc vs other off-set piece, going for the 4pc still provides the ability to ability to maintain the same level of regen while increasing preferred stats to a greater degree than those offset pieces could supply.
    TBH though, if you are not having mana issues (aka fear of going OOM) at all in raids, you are probably running with too many healers and should drop a healer for DPS. Also you have to take into consideration that come 4.0.6, we lose 10% off holy conc (which is about 300-400mp5) making the 4pc that much better.

  12. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by Maxpowr View Post
    TBH though, if you are not having mana issues (aka fear of going OOM) at all in raids, you are probably running with too many healers and should drop a healer for DPS. Also you have to take into consideration that come 4.0.6, we lose 10% off holy conc (which is about 300-400mp5) making the 4pc that much better.
    Well... the # of healers isn't really relevant to the argument I was trying to make, which was that taking the 4pc bonus allows one to have better throughput without sacrificing regen -- though I do agree that many encounters can be made easier by replacing an unnecessary healer with another dps to expedite the kill. If you have no issues with mana even before the 4pc, you should already be reforging excess spirit to throughput stats. The 4pc simply allows one to do so to a much greater extent. The relative value of the 4pc pre- and post-4.0.6 remains in its provision of the ability to drive more throughput than one could manage with off-set pieces, though one might feel free to reforge a bit less of it to maintain similar regen after the patch then one would currently.
    Last edited by Bigslick; 2011-01-23 at 05:02 AM.

  13. #33
    Imo, I would always be pushing for the 4-set. Using your tier does not make you bad. Extra Spirit is great, especially if you're progressing into hardmodes to ensure you always have as much mana regen that you can. Personally, I would go for gloves/legs/chest first and while the 2-set isn't very beneficial in a raid environment it's a good place to start. Get the shoulders and helm off the end bosses as you can. If you have all the tier options available to you, I would go with helm/shoulders/gloves/legs and the chest off of Halfus. Until you have the opportunity to get the end bosses down, going with raid pieces is the better option. Just make sure to reforge as necessary. Nom on the Sprit and Mastery.

  14. #34
    Thanks for the large number of excellent replies!

    You convinced me to go for the (4) set bonus afterall.

  15. #35
    The 4pc sucks for Disc, so no I won't be bothering to pick it up. I'll probably snatch up my 4th piece eventually when I have to play Holy for certain encounters.

  16. #36
    High Overlord Hybred's Avatar
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    Giving up 4PC for a slight stat upgrade is plain stupid. Sure, if I told you before hand you'd end the fight with 50% mana then yeah, maybe the 4PC isn't the best choice. However that isn't the case and having additional gear isn't a free ride to crushing fights, it gives you a cushion for when shit goes wrong and you need to do more than expected. 4PC wins, always. The fact this is even a debate is sad.

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