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  1. #41
    Mechagnome Veiled's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by yoreert View Post
    I'm curious, why does Shadowpriest.com have Volcano weighted so low? Do they not update their lists as often?

    http://shadowpriest.com/viewtopic.ph...29791&start=14
    They don't update their lists as often. They've likely not updated it since the recent change to the trinket.

    Currently, these forums are by far the best source of information for shadow priests. These guys put in alot of hard work, just come here

    Thanks for this.. I'm interested to see this list after the next patch.

    MoP Guides, Raiding and Pre-Raiding BiS Lists, Theorycrafting, Healing/DPS Help & More!

  2. #42
    New, I have a question for you when it comes to BiS lists. Do you think it is better to list the items with or without buffs changing the values? If with, then which would you recommend? Spell Power, Intellect, and Haste buffs (raid-max?)? The multiplicative modifiers are easy to calculate in, but what about the additive modifiers, like crit %?

  3. #43
    The Patient
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    I would only factor in the buffs as a part of the trinket list. The reason for this is because there is a wide variety of the stats trinkets provide (ie. Some have Intellect, some have Haste). This makes the proper selection if a trinket important as trinkets vary wildly in effectiveness and their affect on DPS across the same ilevel.

    This is in comparison to all other slots of gear which will always have Intellect on them, and generally, differences in Intellect are a result of ilevel differences. Changes from buffs will affect most items of the same ilevels the same way. However, attention to socket bonuses may prove this idea wrong in some items.

    You could make an argument for the Spell Power on weapons, but even then, those will be similar across other similar ilevels and only appear on weapons. Increases in Spell Power will again be a result of ilevel changes and not individual choices between alternatives.

    For these reasons, I think scaling the Intellect and Spell Power on non trinket lists will be a fairly moot calculation. Generally, an ilevel increase is going to be the biggest deciding factor in gear selection due to the increase in the intellect it provides. From there, you will look at the secondary stats which are not scaled with buffs (except Spell Power but I explained that already).

    It is only buffs that affect the stat ratings themselves that scale. So since the 5% Crit or 5% Haste in raids don't actually increase the stat rating in your character sheet, you don't have to worry about them. Where as Kings and Arcane Brilliance do actually increase the stat value so they scale.

    Sorry if this post was long-winded.
    Last edited by New; 2011-02-01 at 09:42 PM.

  4. #44
    Here is an updated list using New's latest calculations.

    Code:
    Rank	Name					TOTAL		Int		Spi	SP		Hit	Crit	Haste	Mastery	Proc
    1	Darkmoon Card: Volcano			608.0852	458.6400						128	193	1201*CharacterSpellPower*.10 fire damage (not included in total)
    2	Theralion's Mirror (Heroic)		592.0457	400.2075							435.6	
    3	Bell of Enraging Resonance (Heroic)	540.8862				479.16			218	145		
    4	Theralion's Mirror (Normal)		523.5446	353.9025							385.2	
    5	Figurine - Jeweled Serpent		517.1137	314.2125		261.30225					
    6	Heart of Ignacious (Heroic)		504.9176				473.715				272.25		
    7	Vibrant Alchemist Stone			484.6565	386.9775						194		
    8	Bell of Enraging Resonance (Normal)	478.2901				423.72			193	128		
    9	Witching Hourglass (Heroic)		460.5800	314.2125						290.7		
    10	Heart of Ignacious (Normal)		446.7769				419.265				240.75		
    11	Gale of Shadows (Heroic)		433.9085				374				285		
    12	Stump of Time				402.6820				338.976		193		128		
    	Stump of Time - NOT REFORGED		387.9876				338.976		321				
    13	Soul Casket				396.2091				317.79				128	193	
    14	Sorrowsong (Heroic)			388.3118				329.175				114	171	
    	Sorrowsong (Heroic) - THEORETICAL MAX	863.0057				940.5				114	171	
    15	Gale of Shadows (Normal)		383.1270				330				252
    I included all of the custom calculations people requested throughout the thread in italics. Included in the calculations are Intellect*1.05*1.05 and SpellPower*1.10 for various buffs you would almost always have in a raid environment.
    Last edited by Twintop; 2011-02-03 at 10:48 PM.

  5. #45
    I included all of the custom calculations people requested throughout the thread in italics. Included in the calculations are Intellect*1.05*1.05 and SpellPower*1.10 for various buffs you would almost always have in a raid environment.
    Wouldn't any simcraft already take such buffs into account when producing the stat weights?

  6. #46
    Hoddie -- thanks for pointing this out. After talking with New, you are indeed correct. I've revised my script to not include these

    Below is the latest list, in the spirit of the BRGA (Best Raid Gear Available) lists found over at ShadowPriest.com . It doesn't match how they do it exactly, but I think it is still readable and conveys the pertinent information. The list below is ONLY trinkets. As soon as I can port in other slots to my database, I will post their respective lists as well.

    Stat weights (per New, for 4.0.6):
    Int = 1.0000
    Spirit = 0.3918
    Spell Power = 0.7765
    Hit = 0.3887
    Crit = 0.4395
    Haste = 0.5035
    Mastery= 0.4404

    Best Gems:
    Red = Brilliant Inferno Ruby = 40 PP
    Blue = Purified Demonseye = 20 PP (27.836 PP, but not included in any totals)
    Yellow = Reckless Ember Topaz = 30.07 PP

    Item Formatting
    Blue denotes DPS items.
    Dark Green denotes Healing-specific items.
    Dark Red denotes PVP items.

    Line Formatting:
    TOTAL (TOTAL+HIT+SPIRIT) = INT + SPELLPOWER + HASTE + CRIT + MASTERY + GEMMING + PROC + (SPIRIT + HIT) {REFORGE_FROM-to-REFORGE_TO}



    1. Darkmoon Card: Volcano
      Darkmoon Faire / Volcanic Deck
      583.58194585 = 416 + 64.448 + 84.9972 + 18.13674585 {Mastery-to-Haste}

    2. Theralion's Mirror (Heroic)
      Bastion of Twilight: Valionia & Theralion / Heroic-10/25
      554.83824 = 363 + 191.83824

    3. Bell of Enraging Resonance (Heroic)
      Blackwing Decent: Atramedes / Heroic-10/25
      507.0619 = 338.2434 + 73.0075 + 95.811 {Crit-to-Haste}

    4. Theralion's Mirror
      Bastion of Twilight: Valionia & Theralion / Normal-10/25
      490.64208 = 321 + 169.64208

    5. Heart of Ignacious (Heroic)
      Bastion of Twilight: Ascendant Council / Heroic-10/25
      471.4776 = 334.399725 + 137.077875

    6. Figurine - Jeweled Serpent
      Jewelcrafting
      450.976875 = 285 + 165.976875

    7. Vibrant Alchemist Stone + Brilliant Inferno Ruby
      Alchemy
      448.679 = 301 + 97.679 + 50

    8. Bell of Enraging Resonance
      Blackwing Decent: Atramedes / Normal-10/25
      448.3793 = 299.1078 + 64.448 + 84.8235 {Crit-to-Haste}

    9. Witching Hourglass (Heroic)
      Blackrock Caverns: Ascendant Lord Obsidius / Heroic-5
      431.36745 = 285 + 146.36745

    10. Heart of Ignacious
      Bastion of Twilight: Ascendant Council / Normal-10/25
      417.1806 = 295.962975 + 121.217625

    11. Gale of Shadows (Heroic)
      Grim Batol: Erudax / Heroic-5
      407.5075 = 264.01 + 143.4975

    12. Soul Casket
      Vendor / Valor Points
      373.77605 = 224.33085 + 64.448 + 84.9972 {Mastery-to-Haste}

    13. Sorrowsong (Heroic)
      Lost City of the Tol'vir: Saimat / Heroic-5
      372.500025 = 232.367625 + 60.42 + 79.7124 {Mastery-to-Haste}

    14. Gale of Shadows
      Grim Batol: Erudax / Normal-5
      359.832 = 232.95 + 126.882

    15. Stump of Time
      Baradin's Wardens / Hellscream's Reach - Exalted
      303.73424 (378.75334) = 239.28624 + 64.448 + (75.0191) {Hit-to-Haste}
    Last edited by Twintop; 2011-02-08 at 05:48 PM.

  7. #47
    This list is very diffrent than the list I;ve been going by over at shadowpriest.com
    http://shadowpriest.com/viewtopic.php?p=241622#p241634

    Now I dont know which list to go by!

  8. #48
    The Patient
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    Quote Originally Posted by HeatM1ser View Post
    This list is very diffrent than the list I;ve been going by over at shadowpriest.com
    http://shadowpriest.com/viewtopic.php?p=241622#p241634

    Now I dont know which list to go by!
    This list is out of date.

  9. #49
    Are you completely sure that the buff to the mastery is so large as ~0.06PP? I'm not good in WoW-math, but its been said that Empowered Shadows is our true mastery, and so big increase to PP via 16% buff to the orbs seems way too big for me. Is there something i've missed, or does the MB buff make most of that increase?

  10. #50
    Mechagnome
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    Why is hit so damn low?? Isn't hitcap or at least being close to it important? Drives me nuts that Stump is so low. ><
    Never play leapfrog with a unicorn.

  11. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by Pontificate View Post
    Why is hit so damn low?? Isn't hitcap or at least being close to it important? Drives me nuts that Stump is so low. ><
    It's pretty much a personal choice at the moment. Should certainly aim for hit cap if you have important interrupt or CC duties but otherwise some have demonstrated that it's not as important as it once was. I admit I haven't seen too much about this discussion for a few weeks, but it's easily testable yourself on a dummy.

    If you leave yourself short there's always the option of having a +hit trinket ready to swap in if needed. The Baradin Hold one is the obvious one here but there are others.

  12. #52
    High Overlord
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    With the change of the healing trinket from Baradin's Hold

    http://www.wowhead.com/item=62472

    where the proc is now intellect instead of mastery, anyone knows if it procs from Vampiric Embrace?

    That would make it much better then Stump of Time...

  13. #53
    Mechagnome
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    It will not proc from VE is my understanding.
    Never play leapfrog with a unicorn.

  14. #54
    Bell of Enraging Resonance
    Blackwing Decent: Atramedes / Normal-10/25
    448.3793 = 299.1078 + 64.448 + 84.8235 {Crit-to-Haste}

    Does this take into account the change of the trinket going from chance on critical strike to chance on harmful spell? Thanks!

  15. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by Selinax View Post
    Bell of Enraging Resonance
    Blackwing Decent: Atramedes / Normal-10/25
    448.3793 = 299.1078 + 64.448 + 84.8235 {Crit-to-Haste}

    Does this take into account the change of the trinket going from chance on critical strike to chance on harmful spell? Thanks!
    Yes it does, in a way. The calculations used for procs assumes 100% uptime when off of CD, so the change from on crit to on cast actually makes this assumption more likely than before.

  16. #56
    Thanks for keeping this going, especially Twintop. Hope you manage to update for the new patch once things settle down.

  17. #57
    Hello,

    Question for:
    # Figurine - Jeweled Serpent
    Jewelcrafting
    450.976875 = 285 + 165.976875
    285 + 1425 * (20 / 120) * 0.7765 = 469.419

    I was wondering how you calculated the on-use pp value. Though my result still sets the trinket at the same position, it is now more even with #5 than #7.

    I am using Volcano but still debating what to use as my second trinket as in this thread and the thread on shadowpriest differs among the 3 trinkets I have. The 346 JC trinket, Heart of Ignacious (Normal) and in a few hours, the Vibrant Alchemist Stone. I find the JC trinket extremely useful for burn phases such as Chimaeron and the Council because of its on-use feature but I am just surprised how blizz can make a 346 blue better than most of the epic 359s out there.

    Thanks for keeping this thread up to date!

  18. #58
    Kazfury -- you are correct, there was an error with my calculation of the proc. I'll have the list updated tomorrow.

  19. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by Pontificate View Post
    Why is hit so damn low?? Isn't hitcap or at least being close to it important? Drives me nuts that Stump is so low. ><
    Becouse its simcraft, going with low latency and instant reaction time when spell misses. It doesn't spam next spell for spellqueue and delay recast by one gcd. It's also doing dps in patchwerk-style fight: nuking one target without moving during the fight.
    All this means that hit is still the best secondary stat unless you happen to be AI and fill those conditions.

    Other people (like new) have posted longer explanations about it. If I have misunderstood something, please correct
    "any type of person converting RL money into WoW is retarded by default." - Choppers
    "That makes all of WoW players retards, since we all pay our monthly fee." - Kenjji

  20. #60
    I cant find http://www.wowhead.com/item=56339 on those lists, would like to know if its better or worse then Sorrowsong or Gale of Shadow

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