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  1. #101
    Quote Originally Posted by Lysah View Post
    Un-stuck since you kind of deleted your OP and requested it.
    :[ just came back to this guide to check your recommended stat thresholds (leveling my priest, 84 atm) and now they're all gone

  2. #102
    Quote Originally Posted by Potato Bus View Post
    :[ just came back to this guide to check your recommended stat thresholds (leveling my priest, 84 atm) and now they're all gone
    Sorry for the inconvenience, but the guide itself hadn't been fully updated for 4.1 and I just couldn't see myself ever re-mathing pretty much everything for 4.2. That is why I wiped the data. It was rapidly decaying in value.

    However, maybe I can answer your specific question.

    What role would you be performing short-term & long-term? Are you more concerned about how to set up your priest for 4.2?

  3. #103
    I will probably be mostly just doing heroics and BH on him for awhile, as he will be my 5th 85, but I may upgrade him as my prime healer over my pally. I typically do 10 mans for raids, so there would probably be a good mix of raid and tank healing that I would need to be ready for, which iirc would be oriented more towards a haste set-up. At this point, I'm just more concerned about being able to heal heroics (my gear is kinda bad atm) than 4.2 changes

  4. #104
    Quote Originally Posted by [-Spiritus-] View Post
    So long, and thanks for all the fish!
    I'd rather interpret this as a sophisticated attempt to do a double-backwards-somersault through a hoop whilst whistling the 'Star Spangled Banner' but I guess you meant it as written =/

    Hate to see you not able to keep the Disc guide up to date anymore, Spiritus, and this on the day that it was stickied again! Best wishes with whatever needs taken care of.

  5. #105
    Quote Originally Posted by Potato Bus View Post
    I will probably be mostly just doing heroics and BH on him for awhile, as he will be my 5th 85, but I may upgrade him as my prime healer over my pally. I typically do 10 mans for raids, so there would probably be a good mix of raid and tank healing that I would need to be ready for, which iirc would be oriented more towards a haste set-up. At this point, I'm just more concerned about being able to heal heroics (my gear is kinda bad atm) than 4.2 changes
    As far as 5mans are concerned, it really depends on how you go. An AA build will benifit more from haste, a SoS/ToT build will benefit more from MST. In 4.1 [for 5mans], crit will be you bottom concern. I haven't do the math on crit for 4.2, but, again, for 5mans, I wouldn't rate it higher than either HST or MST, especially with a low item budget.

    For 10m raiding, if you are flexing between tank and raid healing, I did recommend HST as a priority in the guide. I still stand by that, though MST heavy can be used. CRIT, again, is a bit of an unknown, but for a raid/tank flex healer, I wouldn't recommend it higher than HST or MST.

    ---------- Post added 2011-06-02 at 08:37 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by spiralout View Post
    Hate to see you not able to keep the Disc guide up to date anymore, Spiritus, and this on the day that it was stickied again! Best wishes with whatever needs taken care of.
    To be more clear, RL has afforded me opportunities in my work that I cannot pass up. It may require me to travel extensively and I will want to keep my evenings free for various reasons. If that occurs, then I will most likely be retiring from raiding since I could not promise to a guild that I will be there every scheduled raid night. Since I will most likely not actively raiding, I could not justify authoring a PvE guide. I just don't want people to get the impression that something is "bad," rather my priorities are shifting drastically.

    I had been mulling over pulling the guide down for a bit, and since the guides were re-stickied, I felt it was the appropriate time.

  6. #106
    Hey Spiritus! :} Gz on the RL progress! Is it heroic mode?!?! :O

    A quick question: I'm still puzzled about mastery, I just can't wrap my head around it. Each week I decide I need more, then turn back and decide I need less...

    Raid Healer w/ AA - for some reason I'm sitting at 44% mastery (as read in % absorbed by shields) and 10% haste (w/ 2 points in darkness) this feels dumb to me... in the guide you mentioned 32.5% mastery. For this spec, shall I kill mastery down to that level in favor of uberhaste? :} Isn't 32.5% mastery too low?! :O

    Tank healer, no AA - In this case I think 44% mastery and 10% haste would be OK. No? Or better to raise Haste a bit more!

    I dunno why I have to keep asking these things, the strongest Disc spec is like an elusive vaseline covered snake with scales made of butter. :<

    Thanks!
    xo

  7. #107
    Quote Originally Posted by SensCens View Post
    Hey Spiritus! :} Gz on the RL progress! Is it heroic mode?!?! :O
    Heroic mode, yes. I'll need a few more years before I can start attempting Agalon/Sinestra. Pre-nerf C'thun, however, is still a far reach away.

    Quote Originally Posted by SensCens View Post
    A quick question: I'm still puzzled about mastery, I just can't wrap my head around it. Each week I decide I need more, then turn back and decide I need less...
    Quote Originally Posted by SensCens View Post
    I dunno why I have to keep asking these things, the strongest Disc spec is like an elusive vaseline covered snake with scales made of butter. :<
    Because Disc has both absorbs and heals, which both interact with all secondaries very differently, and "best" play cannot be nailed down by sacking all your points into one secondary [bubblolspam] anymore, comming to terms with what stat ratios you need is entirely based on what you need to improve for the talent allocation/playstyle/raid comp/size/skill level you are working with. This is especially true with tank healing, but also valid for raid healing as well.

    The MST to DA conversion is peanuts b/c it is a % of a %. So, you start with a DA that is an absorb worth 30% of a crit. Now, you add in 10% Shield Discipline [that is what the MST stat is called]. The size of the absorb DA creates is now 33% of a crit. So, for 44% SD, your DA creates a shield worth 47.52%, or an additive increase of 17.52%. For PW:S, its straight up. 44% SD = 44% stronger PW:S [not withstanding multiplicative bonuses from talents]. MST affects nothing else but DA & PW:S, so there you have it. Disc MST in a nutshell.

    Quote Originally Posted by SensCens View Post
    Raid Healer w/ AA - for some reason I'm sitting at 44% mastery (as read in % absorbed by shields) and 10% haste (w/ 2 points in darkness) this feels dumb to me... in the guide you mentioned 32.5% mastery. For this spec, shall I kill mastery down to that level in favor of uberhaste? :} Isn't 32.5% mastery too low?! :O;
    The 32.5% mastery I had suggested was my "feel good" mark for tank healing, not raid healing. An AA build will want significantly more haste, a decent amount of MST [because PW:S will still most likely be 1/3ish of your healing done], and not really worrying about crit [in 4.1].


    Quote Originally Posted by SensCens View Post
    Tank healer, no AA - In this case I think 44% mastery and 10% haste would be OK. No? Or better to raise Haste a bit more!
    What is your raidbuffed crit at? Is 10% haste raidbuffed or not? Does your GH feel too sluggish?

  8. #108
    Quote Originally Posted by [-Spiritus-] View Post
    The 32.5% mastery I had suggested was my "feel good" mark for tank healing, not raid healing. An AA build will want significantly more haste, a decent amount of MST [because PW:S will still most likely be 1/3ish of your healing done], and not really worrying about crit [in 4.1].
    Ahh, my mistake! 32.5% for tank healing, if it 'feels good'. I do feel like I should have more haste w/ my AA build... I'm just worried that dropping Mastery (down to say... 40% for raid healing?) will affect my overall performance. I guess this is because it's difficult to gauge the right ratio between Mastery and Haste.

    Quote Originally Posted by [-Spiritus-] View Post
    What is your raidbuffed crit at? Is 10% haste raidbuffed or not? Does your GH feel too sluggish?
    10% haste not-raidbuffed, I suppose with raidbuff it's more like 12-13% (I should know but I forget!). GH does feel sluggish, but I could live with it if I knew that my 44% MST was pulling it's weight and increasing my overall output compared to faster but weaker GHs/PoHs, etc.

    I guess, to put you on the spot, for someone who Raid Heals (AA), what is a good level of mastery while keeping it secondary to haste? Is there a threshold that you would not recommend dropping below? 38% MST? :} In terms of purely better output while raid healing. I would like to try keeping X amount of mastery, reforging haste wherever possible afterwards, and seeing overall better HPS from it.

    xo

  9. #109
    Quote Originally Posted by SensCens View Post
    I guess, to put you on the spot, for someone who Raid Heals (AA), what is a good level of mastery while keeping it secondary to haste? Is there a threshold that you would not recommend dropping below? 38% MST? :} In terms of purely better output while raid healing. I would like to try keeping X amount of mastery, reforging haste wherever possible afterwards, and seeing overall better HPS from it.
    Again, it entirely depends on how much you are leaning on PW:S when it comes to raid healing. The higher percentage your PW:S is of your total healing done, the greater the value of MST.

    If you find yourself using PW:S as a "buffer" for lower raid members, or slapping it on the tank every 15sec, then you will most likely see more use out of HST. If you are using PW:S as your primary [pre-shielding known damage then using very efficient heals while another healer(s) does the heavy lifting on getting ppl back to 100%], then MST will be very important to you.

    For me, I contributed a lot to actually healing up damage while using my absorbs surgically. This requires fast reaction and good raid awareness [esp in 25m]. For me, I liked having my raid buffed HST dropping my 2.5sec casts to ~2.06-2.1.

    In terms of straight up meter pushing? Best bet is to chug external mana CDs, get really good at timing and tracking your personal active mana returns, stack the crap out of MST and press PW:S almost exclusively [with the exception of Penance on CD for 4pc].

    Personally, I always enjoyed a mix of shielding tactically and using AA to boost my DHs. It is far more sustainable and allows other healers to plan their mana CDs [MTT, Innervates, etc] around their own and other healers' needs, rather than you being the CD hog. Besides, external Innervates are getting a huge kick in the pants in 4.2 [for this specific reason].

    TLDR (Since I did ramble a bit)-> I personally like a lot of HST when raid healing as Disc. I still used my PW:S often, even to the point where it was #1 on my list for most fights, but never to the point where it was 60% plus of my overall healing [usually around 33%]. The MST->DA conversion is not strong enough to warrant it to be stronger than HST. However, if your playstyle is almost exclusively centered around using PW:S, then MST is your stat of choice, period. HST & CRIT are almost worthless to someone who has PW:S at 70%+ of their overall healing.

  10. #110
    Thank you Spiritus! Informative as always. ;]

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