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  1. #21
    Disc PvE is fine - gheal should be you go-to heal as disc, heal is too weak as you say, but gheal is cheap with IF so that's not a problem. I've been healing 5 mans since I was 329 ilvl as disc and managed, even with 2.5% rapture.

    PvP disc is broken, but I don't think it's just disc - PvP healing in general is broken, damage output vs healing output is way too skewed towards burst dps classes. The fact that disc has almost no escapes vs most classes doesn't help either.

  2. #22
    High Overlord
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    Without the intention of insinuating anything beyond my scope of knowledge or qualification:

    Why do people always complain about how their class or spec needs improvement from behalf of the developers, before they start to really devote themselves to their game mechanics? Honestly, I'm a mediocre healer by incompetence, but even I produce decent results and manage to keep people alive in a raid. Again, without wanting to insult anyone, but if your healing is bad, there's another thing that could be wrong, the way you heal.

    As I said, I'm not an example to work with; and it's no shame to struggle with game mechanics, with Cata released the healing gameplay has changes as radically as it possibly could.

    I think it is important to be aware of this change of situation: You can't be responsible for everything anymore. In WotLK, Healers would always make up for the mistakes of their fellow players; in Cata, when one of your group members makes a mistake, it is their fault if it results in their death or wiping the whole group.
    Another thing is situated in the same state of mind: Especially in raids, it is not your task to keep people up all the time and all by yourself. That is something that, especially as a Disc priest, you cannot achieve without going oom or make some major mistake. You share the responsibility for people to stay alive with both the other healers of your raid group and DDs and tanks. Therefore and just to give an example, if you are healing together with a Holy priest, you wanna remind people of using the lightwell as well as the Holy him or herself, for the essential healing this spell produces also helps you having an easier job. As a healer, you wanna remind people of using healthstones. You wanna remind them of taking care of themselves in some situations, you wanna teach them not to run out of range and not to stand in greenish or firy stuff on the ground and to frickin' move for G-d's sake. You and those other people of your group are co-workers in the project of staying alive, for that matter.

    In the nutshell: You can heal decently as a Disc priest, even with skills as low as mine. But you don't have superpowers anymore and, honestly, this is a good thing. It'll take some time, and come the next patch it'll be fairly easier to do, but at some point, you and your group will work as a team and be aware of the shared responsibiliy for everyone to stay alive.
    And you have to know your classes facilities, cos there are a bunch of them, that help to keep people from dying. Don't compare yours to other healer's, for they completely suck in other situations in which you win in return.

    However, with the upcoming changes, I'm confident, that we have a way easier job, especially in group healing (think of reduced duration of Weakened Soul and spreading Grace stacks - everywhere!).
    Last edited by Agostil; 2011-01-24 at 02:55 PM.

  3. #23
    Herald of the Titans Caine's Avatar
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    I have no idea how Disc fares in pvp - I only heard bad things about it tho. But PvE? Maybe it's not as good as holy, but by no means is Disc useless. Mind you, it's just my offspec, so the gear I use in 5mans and raids for healing is very sub-optimal. I have no problems with keeping the group and mana up without any effort in 5mans and I don't lose to holy priests or holydins in terms of raid healing while providing PW:Barrier, PS and occasional PI to a DPS. I can't help but feel excited about 4.0.6 changes, Disc will get so powerful it's not even funny. :3
    "Defending a position by citing free speech is the ultimate concession: you're saying that literally the most compelling thing you can say for it is that it's not illegal to express."

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Nuttz View Post
    Every disc priest is complaining and everyone knows that disc priest are the most underpowered specc in this game atm.
    Why do blizzard have to extend or wait by giving out atleast some of the updates? We need the updates now, not in 2-3 weeks.
    agree

    we need this fuking patch now!

  5. #25
    "Help! I fail at this game, my character needs to be updated so it can make up for my lack of talent, help!"

    "Oh and omg right now plzplzplzplz not in a few weeks, right now! omg plzplz help!"


    I'm glad I'm not you.

    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Non-constructive posts are un-welcomed and is considered trolling. This thread has been warned.
    -Apostolic
    Last edited by Apostolic; 2011-01-24 at 06:47 PM.

  6. #26

    lulzerbeams

    Quote Originally Posted by asheara-cz View Post
    Well, maybe next time specify that you are talking about PvP

    ... in raids I'm primary using holy
    This will not change. Priests' current role is AoE healing. Holy will still be noticeably better at it. Pallys will still be better than Disc at single-target healing. It's a gimmick-spec for a limited number of encounters.

  7. #27
    Herald of the Titans Ynna's Avatar
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    To summarize this thread:
    *"Discipline is underpowered. We need fixings."
    -"Nu-uh."
    *"Yes it is*
    -"No, it isn't, you just suck"
    *"Nu-uh, discipline is just weaksauce"
    Etc.

    I'm sure Discipline isn't terribly underpowered, and I believe you can heal just fine with it. But I also believe it's easier as Holy and when you play a class where becoming another type of healer takes under 30 seconds it's important that the two specs are balanced. Discipline is (probably) slightly underpowered, and Holy is currently a bit too strong. The next patch will attempt to balance this.
    Retired Holy Priest
    As a rule, I try to act on the internet as I would in real life. If I have offended you, feel free to point it out. Unless I meant to offend you, I will probably apologize.

  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by TwistedCross View Post
    This will not change. Priests' current role is AoE healing. Holy will still be noticeably better at it. Pallys will still be better than Disc at single-target healing. It's a gimmick-spec for a limited number of encounters.
    Ya, because 36k bubbles and grace on both tanks and buffed penance won't make disc the penultimate tank healer or anything. Not at all.

  9. #29
    If you go to a raid, you will be asked to go holy. They don't want Disc healing tanks (they want pallies to do so), and they don't want Disc raid healing. This is a simple fact.

    And *that* is why people are complaining about Disc. It is noticably inferior to Pallies at tank healing, and even more noticably inferior to Holy priests at raid healing.

    Essentially, Disc is noticably outperformed by other healer classes when raiding, and we are always asked to go Holy. Hence the QQ.

    However, after the buff maybe, just maybe, Disc will be on a par with Pallies for tank healing, and we might be allowed to do so... Have to wait and see on that I guess.

  10. #30
    If I can duo heal cho'gall 10m or many other bosses with a resto druid (who also are underpowered specs atm) then surely it's not so bad that we need the update here and now. This is normal mode though, and I can't say if heroic mode will seriously be a problem with the way disc priests are right now. But seriously disc priests ain't all that bad, just a l2p issue I think.

  11. #31
    In my experience so far, disc is currently underpowered compared to paladin tank healing. After the patch we should be at least on par, if not a bit overpowered. Should be interesting for sure, can't wait to give it a try.

  12. #32
    I'm consistently equal to my fellow raiding healers as disc when looking at worldoflogs-reports.

    It's not the spec or the class, it's you. If you can't adapt to your class changing, then you either have to respec/reroll or practice more.

  13. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by Chob View Post
    If I can duo heal cho'gall 10m or many other bosses with a resto druid (who also are underpowered specs atm) then surely it's not so bad that we need the update here and now. This is normal mode though, and I can't say if heroic mode will seriously be a problem with the way disc priests are right now. But seriously disc priests ain't all that bad, just a l2p issue I think.
    The problem is, the raid leader asks me to go Holy. Every time. I don't want to be Holy. I want to play Disc - but I'm not allowed to because (rightly or wrongly) the raid thinks that Holy is better. That's clearly a problem.

    ---------- Post added 2011-01-24 at 04:00 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Zandalis View Post
    I'm consistently equal to my fellow raiding healers as disc when looking at worldoflogs-reports.

    It's not the spec or the class, it's you. If you can't adapt to your class changing, then you either have to respec/reroll or practice more.
    It's not - it's the raid leader(s). They insist on me going Holy. What's your solution to that?
    (I suppose I could just deliberately suck at raid healing and hope I get reassigned to tank healing... That's not a very good idea tho, methinks )
    Last edited by ContentsMayVary; 2011-01-24 at 04:01 PM.

  14. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by Vyrrel View Post
    "Help! I fail at this game, my character needs to be updated so it can make up for my lack of talent, help!"

    "Oh and omg right now plzplzplzplz not in a few weeks, right now! omg plzplz help!"


    I'm glad I'm not you.
    yes sure!

    so in the next patch we are the only class that have a huge huge huge boost because we are QQing!

    we are too lucky that you are the only glad!!!

    # The mana cost of Power Word: Fortitude has been reduced by approximately 68%, making it roughly equal to the cost of Mark of the Wild.

    # The mana cost of Power Word: Shield has been increased by approximately 31%, but its effect has been increased by 208%.

    # The mana cost of Renew has been reduced by 24%.

    # The mana cost of Shadow Protection has been reduced by approximately 65%, making it roughly equal to the cost of Mark of the Wild.

    # Mind Blast damage has been significantly increased. It should be roughly 50% greater than Mind Spike.

    # Mind Control now has a PvP duration of 8 seconds.

    # Mind Sear can now be channeled on friendly targets in addition to enemy targets. In addition, Mind Sear's damage has been increased by roughly 15%.

    # Prayer of Healing effectiveness has been reduced by 15%.

    # Talent Specializations



    * Discipline


    o Divine Aegis: Critical effects from Prayer of Healing now award a bonus amount in addition to the default, always-proc Divine Aegis effect.

    o Grace is no longer limited to one target at a time.

    o Focused Will now procs when the priest is critically hit, in addition to its current effect.

    o Improved Power Word: Shield now also increases the amount absorbed by an additional 15/30% when cast on oneself.

    o Pain Suppression is no longer dispellable.

    o Penance mana cost has been increased by 7%, but healing has been increased by 20%.

    o Strength of Soul now also causes the priest to become immune to silence, interrupt, and dispel effects for 2/4 seconds after using Inner Focus.




    * Holy


    o Blessed Resilience will now proc when the priest is critically hit, in addition to its current effect.

    o Chakra


    + Chakra states now last 1 minute, up from 30 seconds.

    + Binding Heal and Holy Word: Serenity now refresh the duration of Renew on the target, in addition to the other direct heals.

    + Binding Heal, Flash Heal, Greater Heal can now trigger Chakra: Serenity.

    + Mind Spike can now trigger Chakra: Chastise.




    o Circle of Healing effectiveness has been increased by 30%.

    o Desperate Prayer now heals the priest for 30% of their total health, up from a very subpar value.

    o Guardian Spirit: The absorb/heal from this ability can now never exceed 200% of the maximum health of the target.

    o Holy Concentration now increases the amount of mana regeneration from Spirit while in combat by an additional 15/30%, down from 20/40%.

    o Holy Word: Chastise now has a 30-second cooldown, up from 25. In addition, it properly breaks from damage.

    o Lightwell's health has been increased by 50% (for PvP purposes).

    o Serendipity now has Spell Alert and Floating Combat Text feedback support.

    o Surge of Light can now also proc from Flash Heal and Greater Heal, and can now also critically hit.




    * Shadow


    o Shadow Orbs benefit from mastery has been increased by approximately 16%.

    o Vampiric Embrace now lasts until canceled.









    # Glyphs



    * Glyph of Mind Flay no longer requires Shadow Word: Pain to be on the target.

    * Glyph of Pain Suppression has been renamed Glyph of Desperation and now allows Guardian Spirit to be cast while stunned, in addition to Pain Suppression.

    * Glyph of Psychic Horror now reduces the cooldown of Psychic Horror by 30 seconds, down from 60.

    * Glyph of Spirit of Redemption has been converted into Glyph of Prayer of Mending, which increases the healing done by the first charge of Prayer of Mending by 60%.

  15. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by ContentsMayVary View Post
    The problem is, the raid leader asks me to go Holy. Every time. I don't want to be Holy. I want to play Disc - but I'm not allowed to because (rightly or wrongly) the raid thinks that Holy is better. That's clearly a problem.

    ---------- Post added 2011-01-24 at 04:00 PM ----------



    It's not - it's the raid leader(s). They insist on me going Holy. What's your solution to that?
    (I suppose I could just deliberately suck at raid healing and hope I get reassigned to tank healing... That's not a very good idea tho, methinks )
    Sounds like your RL needs to keep himself up to date better. Yes, Holy is better at raidhealing than Discipline, but when it comes to tankhealing and support aoe healing in my opinion disc definitely has the upperhand there. Pain suppression, power:word barrier, power infusion are all tools that are quite nice on most encounters. I agree that the buffs we're getting were needed, but I'd not go so far to say discipline are severely underpowered. If you're a disc priest who knows how to utilize all the spells in your arsenal, you are worth just as much as holy spec.

    It ofcourse does depend on what your assigned role is on a fight. If you're a raidhealer, and your raidleader sees you as such, then yes, I can imagine him asking you to spec Holy. However, as a tankhealer / support raidhealer you would do just fine as discipline, if not better.

  16. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by Chob View Post
    Sounds like your RL needs to keep himself up to date better.
    I'm tempted to point him at this thread.

    However, I'll just wait until the next patch and then tell him everything's changed.

  17. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by Vook View Post
    Raid =/= 5man

    5man, you're the only healer. Raid, you're not. I don't know what the hell I'm doing wrong, but I just can't keep people up without spamming GH, because Heal doesn't heal for shit as Disc, and bubble doesn't last too long, only absorbing like 14k or so. All four times I tried Disc, it failed miserably, I switched back to holy and had 0 issues. =/
    As disc in 5-mans it's critical to view your effective HPS and HPM in consideration of grace stacks, at least until 4.0.6. If the tank is sustaining heavy damage, sometimes tagging injured dps with renew (and PoM/Shield if they'll continue taking damage) is better than hitting them with a direct heal and moving your grace buff, though you can also replace your stacks quickly with penance.

    Also, be sure you're using your major mitigation CD's (PW:B, PS). With both of them having fairly short cooldowns, you can be a bit more liberal with their usage than you can with GS as holy, and PW:B in particular can dramatically lessen the chaos of a bad pull should it happen.

    Quote Originally Posted by ContentsMayVary View Post
    If you go to a raid, you will be asked to go holy. They don't want Disc healing tanks (they want pallies to do so), and they don't want Disc raid healing. This is a simple fact.

    And *that* is why people are complaining about Disc. It is noticably inferior to Pallies at tank healing, and even more noticably inferior to Holy priests at raid healing.
    Flawed generalization. Disc priests are better suited to keeping Inspiration on tanks than holy priests or resto shaman (with their talented equivalent), neither of whom will keep up the buff uptime to the level of a disc priest. Holy priests and resto shaman are best utilized atm on raid heals with tank support primarily being 'on demand' aside from renew/earthshield.

    It seems you're also taking quite a narrow view of the utility of disc raid support. Aside from the greater (current) HPS of PI'd PoH spam to manage against periods of high AOE damage (even more so if AA spec), there is also PW:B which offers tremendous mitigatory advantage on a very short CD. Of course, high movement fights offer greater challenge to the efficacy of disc priests in raid healing, but the point here is simply that scenario and group makeup determines the effectiveness of each healing spec.

    Essentially, when I play it, Disc is noticably outperformed by other healer classes when raiding, and I am always asked to go Holy. Hence the QQ.
    Fixed.

  18. #38

  19. #39
    This thread makes baby Jesus cry.

    It also has four of the top things that make me a sad panda:

    (1) Unmitigated QQ.
    (2) Stories about bad raid leaders.
    (3) Baseless rhetoric.
    (4) Tiduz randomly posting his meters.

  20. #40
    If anyone started doing heroic modes in raids would notice how good disc is. The raid damage is huge and there are a few figths with "big blasts" on a grouped raid that can be absorbed with barrier. My guild have built tactics of more or less all heroic bosses we have done so far that includes 2 disc priests for barrier. After the patch, one of the priests is most likley to stay disc fulltime.

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