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  1. #1

    Shut up, and heal?

    Back when I first started healing, I was under geared and had to work really hard to heal by focusing in on that one aspect of the game. After I had gear I started to heal less and less, and began to blame others more and more, if someone were to mess up a CC pull I would either be shocked or angered by this moron who messed up something so simple and stop healing completely or less then I would have with no gear.

    I feel the nature of this behavior was rooted in me being more susceptible to being kicked because I was under geared, so I had to work harder in order to succeed (even if the fault was on others) and be to the very least acceptable.

    I made this post because I decided to one day queue for a Dungeon as a DPS with a 40minute queue, I thought this was okay once in a while because I always get 6minute queues a healer. The q pops, I get in, I was the highest DPS in the Dungeon (nearly 40%-50% of damage done in a boss fight). So on our way to the last boss one of the DPS messed up a CC pull, I knew the healer could have healed it but he falls into the same trap I did, his mind was so focused on the mobs hitting everyone he decides to stop healing completely and began to blame others. From a healer's perspective I would've healed it, if it were me. I was kicked shortly afterward (bare in mind this was all random with only 2 being from the same server).

    I think you all would be surprised by what a healer can salvage if they were to try. Sometimes, spamming heals are the way to go, stop thinking about conserving mana on the most ridiculously short PULLS, it's not even a boss! just drink your free food right after you're out of combat, like if you were an Arcane Mage (zero mana at the end of a fight because you know when to use up or save mana). I rarely see people use their 3min + mana regeneration abilities, to all the healers out there, DO SOMETHING.

    Shut up and heal.

  2. #2
    Thing I hate, is when it takes forever for the DPS to kill a boss, I blow my CDs and then we all wipe because I go oom. Then they have the nerve to say, "need to work on the mana issue", uh, excuse me? How about your DPS increase by two fold.

  3. #3
    Mechagnome
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deathsenemy View Post
    Thing I hate, is when it takes forever for the DPS to kill a boss, I blow my CDs and then we all wipe because I go oom. Then they have the nerve to say, "need to work on the mana issue", uh, excuse me? How about your DPS increase by two fold.
    yup when im healing a instance and the dps is lower than the tank ill leave without even thinking about it.

  4. #4
    High Overlord The Pwii's Avatar
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    The problem is if you do not say anything, the group will tend to think this is acceptable, and pull and pull. They stop CCing, they stop marking. And even if YOU can handle it, they carry these bad habits over to the next guy, who might not be able to. Then he gets kicked.

    As a healer, I tend to be pretty quiet on PUGs until something needs to be said. If someone does and absolute foul up on a pull, I will say something. Healers, like tanks, have a pace, and it is up to them to communicate it. Yes, you should try your best to salvage a bad pull. But no, you shouldn't just "Shut up and heal". Cata is about players getting better at harder content than Wrath. Sometimes they need to be informed what they did wrong.

    moTheory - My new website where I overthink games. (WIP)

  5. #5
    High Overlord Starcrossedd's Avatar
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    What I find really annoying at times is people have no problem calling out a tank or a heal doing something wrong, but when a dps is pulling only 5k I get yelled at for calling him out on it.

  6. #6
    It is never really in a player's own interest to rage at their group, in any role. A simple, straightforward suggestion like "hunter, can you please trap the square" can be useful, but something like "your DPS is too low" or "hold aggro better, tank" or "manage your mana better, healer" cannot be solved in the middle of a PuG dungeon run. Comments like that just sour the mood and make everyone perform worse.

    The OP is right; either just deal with the group you have as best you can, or vote kick / leave party if it's intolerable to you.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by anmblack1 View Post
    blah blah blah I was mouthy and a group and I got kicked
    I would probably have kicked you too. On my tank I don't taunt off of people who face pull and if I healed I wouldn't heal them either.
    I'm willing to bet you raged and just aren't telling us, inviting your own demise.

  8. #8
    I heal through bad CC all the time. During a CC pull you only have about a 1.5-2 second window to get CC down before the tank is in AoE mode. If there is a bad trap or (in the case of a healer CCing) a missed spell you just go with the flow. Most tanks are good enough to pick up the missed CC and a cooldown should be enough to negate that mistake.

    Now idiots who stand in the fire? I wont even waste the energy to insult them. If they are too stupid to get out of fire how do you expect them to even have a concept of language. Sure they piss you off but they are so far and away incompetent that nothing you do or say will ever reach them. Insulting them or even trying to give them advice would be like arguing with a plant. On a side note, if anyone were to ever tell me to "Shut up and heal" I could promise you there wouldn't be a single green number until one of us was gone.

  9. #9
    Pit Lord philefluxx's Avatar
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    I agree with all points above. But something Im starting to see more and more is players blaming each other as if they know the mechanics of each class/role. For instance, I get in a heroic stonecore group this weekend and after the first pull the Tank is bitching about my dps (ShadowPriest). Well the entire group was well geared and with the changes to our class we are now a rampup dps class again. To make matters worse, he is bitching about my dps on trash when it is dying so fast I cannot get out enough dps to increase the meter. Then we do Corborus and during the first above ground phase Im hitting 9k+. At 10% Corborus goes underground and so my dps on the meter drops, once he comes up again he only has the 10% and I cant rampup fast enough before hes dead. So I got this tank bitching and talking shit to me, which I ignore, and we do the Slaphide fight which I top 10k dps and the meter. I wanted to be like "look at that bitch.......know the class mechanics before bitching about dps". But I choose to remain silent because he was obviously an ass.


    Plus tanks need to remember they still have viable aoe abilities for their role, dps aoe is useless for the most part now.

  10. #10
    Sounds to me like you've got a case of faux-elitism - you feel you're so much better than everyone so you decide to stop healing to teach them a lesson. Good luck with that attitude in the long run.

    What you need to realise it's it not you vs your fellow party members, but you're all supposed to be working together to achieve a common goal. If a CC goes wrong, or something happens, as a healer I do what I can to salvage the situation, then mention it after the fight. The other thing is that if you're going to give advice it has to be a specific piece of advice that someone can act upon. "Up your dps baddie" is as rude as it is unhelpful. If someone is doing something wrong, then figure out why and give them a specific piece of advice that can help them. Had a group on Nazjtar (is that her name?) in TotT heroic, who didn't realise that you had to interrupt Shock Blast, so I whispered the warrior and asked him to take care of it, and he replied that he was arms so couldn't pummel. I told him that it was now usable in Battle Stance as well, and that he should get it on his action bars. He did, he interrupted, we won. The point is that noone raged, all that happened was someone was given some useful advice which they could act upon and we succeeded. Saying "l2interupt ffs noob" and dropping group doesn't help anyone. Shouting at someone because they fucked up doesn't help anyone.

    Watch the elitists descend on this topic with their "lol I dun wan carry no scrubs" and then realise that you could spend 30 seconds on giving someone good, useful advice and cut a large chunk of time out of your heroic run. If I hadn't spoken to the warrior about it, we could've wiped over and over again on that one boss.

    Oh yeah, and I've never seen any good reason to be a dickhead anyway, but politeness seems to be a dying thing

    Quote Originally Posted by Jahoota View Post
    I heal through bad CC all the time. During a CC pull you only have about a 1.5-2 second window to get CC down before the tank is in AoE mode. If there is a bad trap or (in the case of a healer CCing) a missed spell you just go with the flow. Most tanks are good enough to pick up the missed CC and a cooldown should be enough to negate that mistake.

    Now idiots who stand in the fire? I wont even waste the energy to insult them. If they are too stupid to get out of fire how do you expect them to even have a concept of language. Sure they piss you off but they are so far and away incompetent that nothing you do or say will ever reach them. Insulting them or even trying to give them advice would be like arguing with a plant. On a side note, if anyone were to ever tell me to "Shut up and heal" I could promise you there wouldn't be a single green number until one of us was gone.
    Or you could take maybe 10 seconds to explain to someone that standing in the fire is going to kill them and you won't be able to heal them through it and they might start watching out for it. Not everyone has been playing as long as you have, and not everyone is as good as you are. Doesn't mean you have to be a prize twat about it.
    Last edited by zylya; 2011-01-24 at 05:08 PM.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by anmblack1 View Post
    I think you all would be surprised by what a healer can salvage if they were to try.
    Vortex Pin. Tank screws up and falls off a ledge on a trash pull after we had about half the mobs dead. What do I do? Pop Tree of Life and heal/tank the remaining!

    We can do crazy things if we think outside the box.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by zylya View Post
    Or you could take maybe 10 seconds to explain to someone that standing in the fire is going to kill them and you won't be able to heal them through it and they might start watching out for it. Not everyone has been playing as long as you have, and not everyone is as good as you are. Doesn't mean you have to be a prize twat about it.
    Horrible. Take your 10 seconds to think about that. 1...2...3...4...5...6...7...8...9...10.

    These people see fire. I'm going to assume that everyone knows that death by fire is bad. That may be a leap. I'm sure there is someone out there who sees fire and thinks "that could be fun." but for this argument lets assume they are all being monitored in a facility somewhere. These people see fire under themselves and their lifeforce is fading from their bodies. Tick, tick, tick, goes their existence until they're dead. The look up and they see everyone else, not standing in fire, alive. Most players will avoid fire. The others will wait until they are on fire, panic and move. This type of bad can be saved...but there is that special little flower. That one guy who will move through the process of being burned alive and have absolutely nothing click in his head.

    Holy crap! Who is that stupid? Who gets lit on fire and just stands there? Please don't think about it too long. There is a potential danger for a brain aneurysm. If you think 10 seconds is enough fix that nearly immeasurable amount of fail, by all means, knock yourself out.

  13. #13
    ^ 10/10 would read post again.

    But @OP, see above that bad behaviours like breaking cc or missing your assignment, ignoring interruptable abilities etc, if you let them go then they'll keep doing it, it's habit forming.

    I talk a lot in pugs. Almost never mid fight but even if we all lived, it's important people know what are avoidable mistakes that could lead to wipes. I've been rude about it when it keeps happening but bads are bads and they should play the game less. Most of the time I just get into raid leader mode and try and take charge of things. People respond well to prior direction, set them jobs, remind them what needs to be done. Even if they should know, remind them.

  14. #14
    Pit Lord philefluxx's Avatar
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    Some people cannot be saved, but that doesn't mean you assume so because they screw up once. I think that was the point anyway.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Jahoota View Post
    Horrible. Take your 10 seconds to think about that. 1...2...3...4...5...6...7...8...9...10.

    These people see fire. I'm going to assume that everyone knows that death by fire is bad. That may be a leap. I'm sure there is someone out there who sees fire and thinks "that could be fun." but for this argument lets assume they are all being monitored in a facility somewhere. These people see fire under themselves and their lifeforce is fading from their bodies. Tick, tick, tick, goes their existence until they're dead. The look up and they see everyone else, not standing in fire, alive. Most players will avoid fire. The others will wait until they are on fire, panic and move. This type of bad can be saved...but there is that special little flower. That one guy who will move through the process of being burned alive and have absolutely nothing click in his head.

    Holy crap! Who is that stupid? Who gets lit on fire and just stands there? Please don't think about it too long. There is a potential danger for a brain aneurysm. If you think 10 seconds is enough fix that nearly immeasurable amount of fail, by all means, knock yourself out.
    You're still not getting this.

    Noone stands in a fire and expects to live. We can both agree on this. However, a lot of players, especially people who are new, or unused to dungeons etc simply do not realise that they are standing in fire, or sometimes even that fire exists. They don't stay in it to piss you off or because they're retarded, it's simply they are unaware of it happening. I've played with a lot of players who are new to the game, and one of the most common complains when someone first starts raiding is that there's so much to be watching out for - you have to know, and avoid, all of the mechanics AND keep your rotation going. If you're new to the game or new to raiding then it's a lot of take in the first time, and I know that often they're more frustrated with themselves than you are with them.

    But of course, you must've been born fucking God the way you go on. I'm sure you fucked up when you started raiding, I know for a fact that I did, many times. It's called learning, I can dodge mechanics and move all around while keeping my healing, dps or tanking going because I've got the experience to know what to watch for. When you're first starting though it's not as easy.

    This is why I said "and they might start watching out for it", not because I believe that people would willingly and knowingly stand in fire and die, but because everyone, including you my elitist friend, was new at one stage and take time to get used to something like that. But hey, I guess some people just get off on being an asshole over the internet when they know there's no repercussions.

    Of course, you'll come back and say "lol any idiot can learn to dodge fire in one heroic or less" and thus totally disregard the fact that it takes different people different amounts of time to learn things, especially when there's so many new things to watch out for when you're first starting.


    Quote Originally Posted by Nooburn View Post
    ^ 10/10 would read post again.

    But @OP, see above that bad behaviours like breaking cc or missing your assignment, ignoring interruptable abilities etc, if you let them go then they'll keep doing it, it's habit forming.

    I talk a lot in pugs. Almost never mid fight but even if we all lived, it's important people know what are avoidable mistakes that could lead to wipes. I've been rude about it when it keeps happening but bads are bads and they should play the game less. Most of the time I just get into raid leader mode and try and take charge of things. People respond well to prior direction, set them jobs, remind them what needs to be done. Even if they should know, remind them.
    So you were born good on your first day and never fucked up once? Of course not, but if elitist dicks rage at "bads" instead of giving useful constructive advice in a way that might actually be received well and listened to, then they're never going to end up "goods". If you think that nerdraging is a good way of getting your point accross then you're probably sociopathic and should look into getting help. Shouting at people =/= results.
    Last edited by zylya; 2011-01-24 at 06:02 PM.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by anmblack1 View Post
    Sometimes, spamming heals are the way to go, stop thinking about conserving mana on the most ridiculously short PULLS, it's not even a boss!
    Even in some boss situations this is remarkably true.

    Think of your first try or two on Magmaw. How many people saw a tank drop dead almost immediately in the Mangle even with cooldowns? I'd wager the vast majority of groups, until it sunk in for healers that they were going to get half a minute of regen immediately afterward.

  17. #17
    I don't agree with you whatsoever. The mentality of Wrath was, "go ahead, fail at everything, my mana pool is endless and I'm so godly I can heal through your fail." This isn't the case at all anymore.

    I heal heroics like I heal raids. Am I going to kick it into overdrive because a dps can't watch his threat and the only way to keep him up is to spam heal until I go oom and thats the reason we wipe? I'll give him a couple heals and if the mistake isn't corrected by the tank picking up the add, or the dps somehow disengaging from combat for a sec, I'll just let his ass die.

    Now am I just going to ever sit back and not heal because of a bad pull? Never. But every heal I do put out is thought through. I take things into account like, how good is the dps, how hard does the tank get hit, are people kicking spells, does the mob do a lot of aoe dmg, things like that. And in those several seconds of "oh shit this is gonna get ugly" every heal I make has gotta be justified.

    It can be very frustrating as a healer because the success of the raid isn't solely on the shoulders of the healer and tank like it used to be. Everyone has to pitch in, and depending on how well everyone plays their role will directly affect how stressful the healing will become.

  18. #18
    Stood in the Fire
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    Yea. I see how groups tend to abuse the healers. I try my best to avoid as much damage as possible, and CC even if no one marks a target for me.

    I know while leveling my healer (Holy priest) i got blamed all the time for dps dying in 1 hit, for skwishy tanks, and tanks who would pull ike 5 mobs at once and either couldnt hold aggro, or didnt have gear that could handle it. They want to think every healer is the same. I dont even argue. I rarely get kicked, because most of the time reasonalbe people are in my group and see its not my fault. When a tank is all "learn to heal". All I can say is "learn to not be so soft", "learn to tank", "learn to hold aggro, "learn to cc" or get the hell off my back.

  19. #19
    Charles Barkley - Shut up and Jam

    great game for genesis!

  20. #20
    Brewmaster Jodah's Avatar
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    Ahh the joys of running with a mostly guild group (only need two others to have the majority). I have been known to kick dps that are below the tank on every pull or tanks with less hp than me in dps gear (I am balance so its not like I have feral gear on) or healers with 95% overheal. Things like that are just unacceptable now.

    I will help someone out if they are making an effort before hand. Only doing 8k dps? I'll give you some tips. Losing agro once in awhile as the tank? I can help you with that. Running out of mana as a healer but not overhealing a huge amount? Lets see what we can improve. Die in something that you shouldn't have once? Fine I'll go over the strategy for you. Do it again and I hate you. Its the people that don't even try to be decent at their role that earn my scorn and group kick.

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