Horde sucks at pvp?

[GratedWasabi]

Battlegroups dont exist anymore, now its region / Language based and one thing ive noticed is the pure randomness of what you get to work with. In one wsg i was with another holy paladin 3 affliction warlocks and some rogues + a hunter, in the other we had 4 shadowpriests, a druid and 4 mages.

Well it seems like the horde vs alliance have come full circle, in vanilla the alliance had ques, the botters and the scrubs. Horde didnt break a sweat steamrolling randoms, and falling short against pugs.

In TBC pugs vanished, courtesy of blizzard so it was randoms vs randoms. Horde now had a pretty race, paladins and all the pvp glory it was to be had, Addons such as preform AV enabler where widespread because of the introduction of Xrealm. EVERYONE ELSES REALM SUX. With few notable exeptions.

The most notable happening was the few weeks where Xrealm failed and it was back to stormscale vs stormscale. Man how we qued during those last weeks. I wished it never ended.

in Wotlk the standard went down and the floodgates where opened for Athene, entitled scrubs, botters and idiots. Strategy such as cap nodes and zerg vandar that worked for pugs where now put into the hands of these people.

AV: Most of the time THIS SHIT IS NOT GOING TO WORK, jesus christ. It worked for them because they where organised, they had 20++ players with frostwolf signets and 10 people dedicated for defence. Instead we have this mutated form of "id rather loose fast than zerg midfield and win by reinforcement depletion". The BG hardly lasts 10 minutes and its a shame that they did nothing to improve it for cataclysm.

I dont want to get into detail, but the new bgs from wotlk are as shit as can be (sota and isle), the cata ones are LONG OVERDUE but have no factions so they really suck. All i see from cataclysm is Baradin hold (the third nipple of blizzard) and shitty pvpers. Want to know why horde never heals?

Because after a month of healing these people I know the majority of your Zerg (in wsg for instance) will

1) fail to protect you
2) fail to grasp the basic strategy of the bg
3) fail to kill / interrupt / cc the enemy healers

or they will just tunnel down some random alliance they found and engage the alliance zerg with 3-4 players less than optimal.



Yes i am an Xrealm racist, a Vanilla lover and i know stormscale has seen better days (LOLATHENE).

i wish they updated AV for cataclysm, made npcs relevant again, summoning Lokholar the icelord or ivus, looting corpses and turning in armor for frostwolf rider npcs to help you zerg them down. I wish the new bgs had factions and a rep grind with items.

Good post.

I especially liked the end part. I got to 85, tried Resto, and realized while I could keep myself and others alive they just failed to kill Healers and use logic. I decided I'd rather be the DPS and pray there is a healer watching me.

I think the randomness is a problem, too, although how you fix that without drastically lengthening the queue is the question. Would people be willing to wait an extra 10 minutes per queue to get a healer spec for every 3 DPS? It would be interesting to see how much time on average was added to a queue if a BG wasn't formed until each team had a certain number of heal spec'd players.

If I wasn't so utterly disgusted with Alliance I would consider a switch. The average skill level is clearly higher on that side now. With Worgens being able to be Druids, and with pretty cool forms, I have to say it's starting to really tempt me. Squid people and Night Elves are the only ones I really can't stand.

[VincentWolf]

Dunno, if it's true, then I'm only happy.
Pala from guild was like "omggg alli suck in pvp wtf bbq can't win anything!" I was like "huh?" Joined 2x random bg's in a row won with ease (main warrior). Then on my low lvl hunter alt (just for fun 'cuz they're op) was absolutely facerolling horde WHOLE weekend, 20+ games, but at monday morning couldn't win a single game for.. what... 5 games? Then situation was fixed at evening time though.

[Nevian8]

I never understood this way of thinking at all.

How can Horde "suck" and Alli be "good" at something or vice versa? I mean, both consist of people and it's the people who are good or bad, right? Now, how can "the red group of ppl" be better than "the blue group of ppl" if both groups consist of small teams that do something and it's only those "small blue team vs small red team" fights that count..?

Both the Horde and Alli have the same age/skill/lvl players with, probably, minor differences and on the long run the win/loss ration of Horde/Alli is 50-50 (+/- 1). It's the people in your current group who might be more skilled/better/worse than the people in your current enemy team and if you win or lose vs a group of people, it doesn't necessarily mean the whole population of those people are good/bad.

I've always felt like "Alli/Horde sux and Horde/Alli rules" discussions come from people that have lost a BG or something and instantly jump into dumb conclusions.

tl:dr - there is no Alli vs Horde, only small groups of people vs small groups of people and only if you gather the whole Horde and Alliance (12,000,000 people, or whatever the current WoW population is) and have them fight all together in a true Horde vs Alliance fight - only then one will be able to conclude which faction is stronger.

[Noomz]

I never understood this way of thinking at all.

How can Horde "suck" and Alli be "good" at something or vice versa? I mean, both consist of people and it's the people who are good or bad, right? Now, how can "the red group of ppl" be better than "the blue group of ppl" if both groups consist of small teams that do something and it's only those "small blue team vs small red team" fights that count..?

Both the Horde and Alli have the same age/skill/lvl players with, probably, minor differences and on the long run the win/loss ration of Horde/Alli is 50-50 (+/- 1). It's the people in your current group who might be more skilled/better/worse than the people in your current enemy team and if you win or lose vs a group of people, it doesn't necessarily mean the whole population of those people are good/bad.

I've always felt like "Alli/Horde sux and Horde/Alli rules" discussions come from people that have lost a BG or something and instantly jump into dumb conclusions.

tl:dr - there is no Alli vs Horde, only small groups of people vs small groups of people and only if you gather the whole Horde and Alliance (12,000,000 people, or whatever the current WoW population is) and have them fight all together in a true Horde vs Alliance fight - only then one will be able to conclude which faction is stronger.

I don't know where to start with you. Maybe you should read what others have written? Some people explain the situation quite good. And how you could ever think that a 6mil vs 6 mil zergfest would prove anything I'll never know.

A certain faction has always had the stamp of being PvP dominant, over the course of a few years people have migrated or changed factions for various reasons, this has all led to a turn-around in PvP where the Alliance is getting an upper hand.

[George Costanza]

I love that most of the kids switched to blood elf when the faction change was intruduced and I can say from experience we alliance win twice as muc has before on EU-Moonglade in battlegrounds though hordes numbers usually crushes us in Tol'Barad

Then that is a Battlegroup issue and the moonglade horde side > moonglade alliance side, in pvp.

[Durandro]

Weird, from my experience Alliance sucks at PvP. And I'm Alliance. ITs really frustrating when you're doing your best to win the game, and some mouthbreather grabs the flag and then decides to just sit in the middle of the field.

[Bakis]

In most EU bgroups horde got a solid upper hand on wins, maybe in the US that horde suck at PvP?

[Araxie]

Because everyone that plays Horde is just a massive clump of people that suck at PVP? Yeah, no. People suck at PVP, They just happen to play Horde.

[Shuya82]

I've noticed the exact opposite, I experience lose after lose on alliance side. It seems they are all using strategy while our team says stfu noob if we suggest a plan... maybe we are just both really unlucky with who we get teamed up/against with

[Whitehatter]

depends on the server really.. on aeriepeak allies outnumber horde something like 3 to 1... can be said that blizz are or have made changes to balance out ratios so its fair but in way it you can have a self defeatist attitude thus effecting you play mode... just a thought :P

but from what i usually see in pvp.. horde tend to zerge and over power while allies play it smart group together and heal each other thus making their suvival chances better than horde

i dunno its just an observation but to me playin smart is better than bruteforce.. i play as horde and i have some respect for how allies dominate sometimes even if it is fecking annoying :P

the one who usually wins are the ones with a stratagy and comunicaiton some times this is wat horde lacks or its usually the people who just dont listen.... ive been constantly annoyed by morons that cap the SH GY in av.. even though ya tell em 40 times at the start and the watch em go up and cap... our mistakes helps the allies thus us losing even more

[MestHoop]

Recently rolled alliance to play with IRL mates again, and although alliance do win more BGs to my experience, it's not 80% by a long shot.
The main problem with horde I think, is the fact they have their good players spread out more.

As for the healers part... Just not true :P Last night I did a WSG where we had 1 pally healer. I helped the dude cap once and then he left... Opponent's team? Well aside from all the normal healers, they had a druid and a shaman healer just flag running back and forth...
Between the 2 of em we needed all 10 of us to bring 1 down if they were together ((

Once again, not an isolated incident. I'd say about 50%-50%

[Sailboats]

horde tend to zerge and over power while allies play it smart group together and heal each other
(

This is what I generally observe too.

[Sardonic]

Both sides have good and bad players. Horde has the long-running rep of being the "better" pvp side, but in reality it's all about whichever players end up in the same BG as you. If the Alliance gets better geared/skilled pvp'ers in your random BG than the Horde, then the Alliance will almost certainly win. Vice verse for the Horde. It really is as simple as that.

[Deleted]

It's your BG, I, as a horde win about 80%. Won Twin peaks 15 out of 17 games. Won Gilneas 21 out of 23. Misery EU

[icecreamtruck]

It's your BG, I, as a horde win about 80%. Won Twin peaks 15 out of 17 games. Won Gilneas 21 out of 23. Misery EU

Thank you for saying this... I play alliance on misery and i am so god damned sick of losing 80% of the time. Inc faction change

[Drakoes]

I call it the "new wave" of horde like the new generation or new wave of music/bands, if you get my drift. Some just aren't cutting it anymore, but that's not to say they all suck, but with stuff like faction changes and those kind of things, it complicates matters.

[Rukh]

Over this weekend, as alliance, it took me three days to win a single BG to get the daily points. THREE DAYS.

[Krimson]

This thread came up before, and when someone pointed out how to check your BG stats, it turned out that pretty much everyone was somewhere around 50/50. The worst W/L records were maybe 4:6 at worst.

Losing multiple BG's in a row is just a far more frustrating experience then winning multiple BG's is satisfying, and I think that frustration is what causes it to stick out in people's minds.

If Alliance is a bit ahead, I would imagine that is caused by their fast queue times. Lots of high level PvP'ers and PvP guilds transfer to Alliance for the queues, and players are able to gear up faster then Horde.

[giowatcher]

Depends on realm. On my realm I personally could obliterate any alliance and very rarely did I find a horde having trouble... Times have changed though Ive noticed quite the surge of bad players on horde, though the alliance don't seem much better...
Be careful not to include population majority's or ratings. Alliance vs Horde doesn't matter at higher up mainly just class and country to most then population can easily distort it. For instance on my realm its a good Horde3:1Alliance ratio so they SEEM to be bad cause they always lose, however in more equal #ed battles it was equal... well... until I started to play THEIR class better then them.
Having one of each class is useful for PvP...

[Thallidomaniac]

Oh it sustains me. Much of my enjoyment from PvP comes from feeling their rage as they die, but it is also satisfying knowing that there are two hundred horde that didn't make the queue, especially considering that 40% of the horde are alliance faction changers who thought that it was their faction that was bad, when in reality it was them all along. They shot themselves in the foot.... but I do "kind of sort of" feel bad for the long-time horde players who now have an army of mouth breathing retards to call "teammates".

I'd love to imagine all those tears that the Horde swarms on Mal'Ganis and Cho'gall weep then too. You wanted a 99% Horde realm, here you go.