Some issues using Female Dwarf.

[Mixon]

so I'm been tinkering with a MM spec to try out when the patch goes live but i been have a few issues with Female Dwarf, my innital reaction was wow this thing is broken but then i remember a number of time b4 when i was thinking that then after asking about it on here found some small section i forgot to update that was throwing my number off. PTR changes are activated.

The first issue i having is with the talents, particularly "Pathing" in the first tier of the Survival tree. i was toying with my free point by swaping the numbers in "Pathing", "One With Nature", "Bestial Discipline", and "Frenzy" to see what number in which ones gave me the best numbers for my gear. I started with the default MM spec just to get a base line. But the odd thing was every time i put a 3rd point into "Pathing" my dps went down about 86 dps, even tho i expected 1% to be a big deal, (haste (2.02 dps per point) is second just behind agi (2.99 dps per point) on my priority). so next i next i took went back to 2/3 Pathing and also took one point out of Frenzy making it 2/3 and only using 40 talent points and updated my dps (obviously it was lower but i wanted to test something). now using my 1 unused talent point i put it in frenzy and it was still an 86 dps loss over not even using the point. Is this really possible that 1% haste can cause a dps loss even if your not giving anything up for it? I have a feeling im over looking something or some setting or......well just being stupid but if it is a bug i'll send a report.

i'll add my other questions in a min...

[refire]

The spreadsheet isn't perfect especially when dealing with haste. Most likely you've encountered a small haste plateau. Which essentially gives you no extra gcds in between chimera's. That haste EP is also extremely high. Use the feature that lets you input random stats and start putting in a little extra haste at a time. I assume you're haste values will tremendously go down once you jump over another plateau. It's also worth noting most plateaus can be ignored in actual raiding. From target switching to changing the rotation, those small haste plateaus provide almost no realistic plateau in a boss encounter.

[Mixon]

but the question im asking is, is it EVER a dps loss to gain 1% extra haste when you give up nothing for it? at the very least your auto shot should be faster.

well after making some glyph changes the 1 extra point in Pathing is showing up as a 258 dps gain over not using the final point. but then when messing with the custom buffs and adding 1 more % haste i got it showing as a dps loss!>!

[Dunee]

As refire said femaledwarf is quite awesome most of the time, but SOMETIMES especially when dealing with haste you can reach certain spots that cause your steadyshot cast time/passive focus which makes you gain excessive amounts of dps (you were talking 2dps per point) just because you can get another steady/cobra into your rotation thus substantially increasing your dps.
right after that the haste evaluates ALOT because it only really affects the autoshots (and a bit of passive focus regen).

what you seem to have hit might either be a bug OR it might be femaledwarf trying to squeeze in another steady shot gimping you somewhere else.. but then again this you will have to talk to the site owner about (and PLEASE report the bug on the site) I know she reads these forums and sometimes respond.

[Mixon]

ty ty, i am glad to see that even tho the patch will hurt suv bad it will buff mm even higher than suv is atm, im at 24214 as suv live, and at 25278 as mm on the ptr (according to female dwarf).

[refire]

but the question im asking is, is it EVER a dps loss to gain 1% extra haste when you give up nothing for it? at the very least your auto shot should be faster.

well after making some glyph changes the 1 extra point in Pathing is showing up as a 258 dps gain over not using the final point. but then when messing with the custom buffs and adding 1 more % haste i got it showing as a dps loss!>!

Realistically you're correct. However if whatever algorithm that's doing the sim is trying to fit another steady in, and thus pushing back Chimera, it will be a dps loss with how its calculated.

[Adyssa]

Here's an example of what may be occurring when adding 1% haste. Say you have the wait time set to .5 seconds, such that if your main shot is .5 seconds or less from coming off cooldown, it waits and then uses it. If adding 1% haste makes a steady shot or cobra shot end .6 seconds before your main shot, it's no longer going to wait, it's going to start another steady or cobra and then do the main shot after that, thereby pushing the main shot back. If adding the haste causes it to do this a few times in a 5 min fight, then you might end up dropping a main shot off your total and lose some DPS.

Check your shot totals and see what happens when you add the haste. You might see, as MM for example, that you add 2 Steady Shots but lose a Chimera Shot, which would likely lower your DPS.

There are other shot behaviors you can toy with as well, like how much focus you have before using Arcane and how to manage Steady Shots for MM.

[Mixon]

Here's an example of what may be occurring when adding 1% haste. Say you have the wait time set to .5 seconds, such that if your main shot is .5 seconds or less from coming off cooldown, it waits and then uses it. If adding 1% haste makes a steady shot or cobra shot end .6 seconds before your main shot, it's no longer going to wait, it's going to start another steady or cobra and then do the main shot after that, thereby pushing the main shot back. If adding the haste causes it to do this a few times in a 5 min fight, then you might end up dropping a main shot off your total and lose some DPS.

Check your shot totals and see what happens when you add the haste. You might see, as MM for example, that you add 2 Steady Shots but lose a Chimera Shot, which would likely lower your DPS.

There are other shot behaviors you can toy with as well, like how much focus you have before using Arcane and how to manage Steady Shots for MM.

i see what your saying, and agree that is prolly the case ty.

[Shivano]

I actually thought you had problems with with a female dwarf character by just reading the topic name >.<
(and yes I am familiar with femaledwarf.com)

[Joolsy]

Adyssa's post is both accurate & well reasoned. Bravo. The problem with any automated system is of course that it follows rules. These rules can almost never account for real situational variations and so will sometimes give misleading results.

Zeherah's Calc is a masterpiece and an awesome tool for anyone serious about optimising their Hunter, however you need to "play" with it a little to get the most out of it.