DPS Equipment as a Tank

[Culexus]

Hiho,

ok ive got a question to you pallytanks.

Ive jumped into tanking for about 2 weeks now and im in ok equipment (346s almost all of them with mastery and all of the reputation epics from the cata factions) and thats exactly what i want to ask. At the moment im using Belt of the Ferocious Wolf and i have been flamed for that by a heal. The crit is reforged to dodge (or parry if my gear changes and dodge occurs to be the higher stat). I would sure be able to buy Girdle of the Mountains.

If i use the epic one i get the following gains in comparison to the justice points belt.
43 Sta
8 Str
169 Mastery (3.68)
72 Armor
149 Crit (3.25%) -> 90 crit/59 Dodge or Parry

But i obviously lose
150 (91) Parry and 110 (51) Dodge Rating (one of them is made up with the mastery easily)

Seeing as mastery is the best stat for paladins i dont see the problem here. In the end the only thing im losing is the itemisation points for 90 crit rating (useless for a tank most of the time). But i gain my most desired stat and stamina some strength and a minor armor upgrade in exchange for that.

So tell me should i really use the justice points one or am i ok with it and just ignore the healer or was he right for flaming me about this?

[Deleted]

since mastery is good for prot pallas, u are fine. i guess some ppl just think: no parry/dodge, no tank gear.

[Deleted]

It's not tank gear, but depending on what you upgraded from it's worth using. Personally I would go for the blue though, justice points aren't hard to come by, specially not for a tank.

[Culexus]

It's not tank gear, but depending on what you upgraded from it's worth using. Personally I would go for the blue though, justice points aren't hard to come by, specially not for a tank.

As i said it would be no problem to buy the jp one. But id rather buy some heirlooms from the points than a belt that isnt even a noticable upgrade if any. So in the end ... is the jp one an upgrade or is the 90 crit made up by the fact that the reputation one has the stated gains in str/armor/sta and the fact it provides mastery?
Also the epic belt has a blue socket where i stuffed a stam/mastery gem into to get the socket bonus of 10 str and i wouldnt use a red gem in the jp one so its 18 str rather than 8.

[Malkhor]

The epic one is what i'd use.

[Vaka]

because of Mastery and reforging the epic is perfectly acceptable in a tanking set. You should simply tell the flaming healer to piss off and worry about healing gear, and let you worry about your own gear.

[Marsc92]

Actually math has shown that till about 11.23% on both parry and dodge, they are better stats than mastery for mitigation, so generally, if you have less than that value, the justice points one would definately be the better option, if this isn't the case, than I'm pretty sure the epic providing the better stat for mitigation + stam + dodge/parry (whichever is lowest) when reforged would be optimal.

[Deleted]

Use the epic one and socket a mastery gem.
Reforge the crit to dodge / parry (whichever is lower).
Since when did healers know how to tank

[yjmark]

When properly gemmed, the difference is really:

Hyjal Belt: +72 Armor, +149 Mastery
vs
JP Belt: +2 Sta, +108 Parry, +51 Dodge

From a damage reduction standpoint, the Hyjal belt comes out very very slightly ahead. Of course, the crafted Blackmisthing belt is far superior to both, so you should target that if you have the money.

Overall - the healer who complained was ignorant.

---------- Post added 2011-01-28 at 01:44 PM ----------

Actually math has shown that till about 11.23% on both parry and dodge, they are better stats than mastery for mitigation, so generally, if you have less than that value, the justice points one would definately be the better option, if this isn't the case, than I'm pretty sure the epic providing the better stat for mitigation + stam + dodge/parry (whichever is lowest) when reforged would be optimal.

Actually, if you use correct math, it's more like ~10.2%

[Howard Moon]

IMHO the itemization budget lost by the 90 crit is easily made up for by all the other stats. In other words, I'd keep the purple belt.

[MestHoop]

I used the Cenarion belt. Most of the pro guild tanks used the Cenarion belt.
Whoever is giving you shit for it needs to learn about other classes before they start making judgement calls.

[howak]

dont worry about what other people might say,you can use the dps gear for HC/normal raid as long as it has mastery on it and also you can reforge the other secondary state to the one you need,like exp-doge or parry,since in these gears the state change is minimal and it wont make so much difference
and dont change [Belt of the Ferocious Wolf] with [Girdle of the Mountains],[Belt of the Ferocious Wolf] is way better for tanking with proper reforging than [Girdle of the Mountains]

[Digits]

The best thing you can do is ignore people like that, they don't know half as much about your class and spec as they pretend to.
They might decide to be childish and stop healing you, or they'll rage at you a bit, both can be fixed by initiating a kick or leaving yourself.
Whatever you do, don't argue with people like that unless they're genuinly trying to help you, but most people who are helpful will do so without flaming.
That belt is perfectly fine for tanking with the way you reforged it.

[Nazak]

IMO, if a plate DPS item comes with Mastery/Hit, Mastery/Expertise, or Hit/Expertise, it's a viable tank item. If it only comes with Mastery and has Haste or Crit or something else that doesn't help us much, you can always reforge. However, you're not optimising your choices by doing so, they can make good temporary items if you plan on replacing them, but I don't think some melee would appreciate that lol.

[Culexus]

Thanks for the answers guys. I will keep the epic belt, get a heirloom for the points and perhaps (if tanking turns out to be enough fun and ret isnt buffed to viable numbers in 4.0.6.) craft the epic tanking belt from BS.

Its just irritating when youre doing math for yourself (or simply use common sense) and than someone else flames you like he was doing. As im always trying to improve my self i needed some sort of confirmation that i was right with my choice and not gimping myself unnecessarily.

The problem in random dungeons is that if youre arguing against something like that no one is at your side. Its always the one who started the flame war who seems to get backup from the other group members even if they are terribly wrong like in this case.

[Ozy]

Yup mastery is better, just grab the Hardened Elementium Girdle when you can...it will be BiS practically given the xtra gem slot its getting.

On the contrary DONT get the BS chest peice due to its lack of mastery, get the JP one.

[Deleted]

IMO, if a plate DPS item comes with Mastery/Hit, Mastery/Expertise, or Hit/Expertise, it's a viable tank item. If it only comes with Mastery and has Haste or Crit or something else that doesn't help us much, you can always reforge. However, you're not optimising your choices by doing so, they can make good temporary items if you plan on replacing them, but I don't think some melee would appreciate that lol.

I agree except for hit/expertise pieces. Tanks do not need to gear into precision stats in general, especially if the piece has no damage reduction stats at all. I am using the heroic mastery/hit shoulders till I replace them with epic ones.

Crit and Haste are a lot less preferable for a tank but as others have said overall the stats are pretty decent until you can get a pure epic tank belt like the Omnitron one.

[Nazak]

I agree except for hit/expertise pieces. Tanks do not need to gear into precision stats in general, especially if the piece has no damage reduction stats at all. I am using the heroic mastery/hit shoulders till I replace them with epic ones.

Crit and Haste are a lot less preferable for a tank but as others have said overall the stats are pretty decent until you can get a pure epic tank belt like the Omnitron one.

Precision stats aren't neccessary, you are right, as I don't even attempt the hit/expertise cap due to vengeance. I just pile on Mastery.

But some people do, maybe they aren't happy with their threat. I'm not saying it's a reccommended choice but it's definitely an option.

[fizikz]

I'd go with the reforged purple. mastery is sexy as hell, and if people see that as a dps stat then they need some further education. also, more stam is good. tiny bit of crit is "wasted" but so what - the mastery/stam make up for that and then some.