1. #1
    The Patient
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada
    Posts
    252

    [Shadow] The Value of Mastery in 4.0.6

    THIS POST IS INCORRECT

    I'm leaving it up because I feel like I should apologize to those who took the time to read it in the first place. Simulation craft was doing things in a way that I was not telling it to, and as a result, the below information is not correct. Please disregard it and I am very sorry to the inconvenience it has caused.

    I am working on fixing it over the weekend.

    The reason for this post is to detail the upcoming changes to Mastery in 4.0.6 and how it will affect our gearing choices when the patch hits. I will be drawing from information obtained from running simulation craft simulations to determine stat weights of Mastery and Crit and their effects on our DPS. If you're unfamiliar with what these numbers mean, a brief explanation can be found in the Shadow Priest sticky in the Priest forums. A link to simulation craft is provided below:

    http://code.google.com/p/simulationcraft/

    Clarifications

    When I refer to the old best in slot profile, or the Crit Heavy profile, I am referring to the gear profile that simulation craft had used for 4.0.3. This is due to the fact that this profile uses the logic that Crit > Mastery and as a result has more Crit than Mastery.

    When I refer to the new best in slot profile, the Mastery Heavy profile, or PTR profile, I am referring to the gear profile that simulation craft has for use in 4.0.6. This is due to the fact that this profile uses the logic that Mastery > Crit and as a result has more Mastery than Crit.

    Analyzing the Best In Slot Profile

    Priest_Shadow_T11_372_PTR Mastery heavy Profile stats:
    Gear Summary
    gear_strength=20
    gear_agility=20
    gear_stamina=5913
    gear_intellect=4911
    gear_spirit=1608
    gear_spell_power=2207
    gear_hit_rating=143
    gear_crit_rating=446
    gear_haste_rating=2250
    gear_mastery_rating=1279
    gear_armor=8502
    meta_gem=burning_shadowspirit
    tier11_2pc_caster=1
    tier11_4pc_caster=1
    *raid bonuses are added in when simulated

    The stat weights we get from simulating this profile are as follows:

    Priest_Shadow_T11_372_PTR Mastery Heavy: 29652dps
    Code:
    		Int	Spi	SP	Hit	Crit	Haste	Mastery
    Scale Factors	3.5820	1.4617	2.7950	1.4656	1.5674	2.0494	1.5114
    Normalized	1.0000	0.4081	0.7803	0.4092	0.4376	0.5721	0.4220
    Finding the Cross-Over Point

    The scale factors appear bizarre as Crit is being valued higher than Mastery, yet we're going with a profile that is favoring Mastery over Crit. These scale factors imply that there is a level of Mastery where Crit becomes superior to Mastery. I attempted to find this cross-over value by running several more simulations using the same profile. I changed the values of Crit and Mastery by increasing Crit by 100 and decreasing Mastery by 100 for each simulation to see when the two would be roughly equal. The hit cap was also maintained for these tests. This provided the following Results:

    Priest_Shadow_T11_372_PTR Mastery Heavy +100 Crit -100 Mastery : 29751dps
    Code:
    		Int	Spi	SP	Hit	Crit	Haste	Mastery
    Scale Factors	3.6872	1.3836	2.8671	1.3925	1.6767	2.1494	1.5965
    Normalized	1.0000	0.3752	0.7776	0.3777	0.4547	0.5829	0.4330
    Priest_Shadow_T11_372_PTR Mastery Heavy +200 Crit -200 Mastery : 29760dps
    Code:
    		Int	Spi	SP	Hit	Crit	Haste	Mastery
    Scale Factors	3.7134	1.4289	2.8070	1.4420	1.6433	2.1143	1.6137
    Normalized	1.0000	0.3848	0.7559	0.3883	0.4425	0.5694	0.4345
    Priest_Shadow_T11_372_PTR Mastery Heavy +300 Crit -300 Mastery : 29764dps
    Code:
    		Int	Spi	SP	Hit	Crit	Haste	Mastery
    Scale Factors	3.6613	1.5075	2.8436	1.4837	1.6735	2.1369	1.5823
    Normalized	1.0000	0.4117	0.7767	0.4052	0.4571	0.5836	0.4322
    Priest_Shadow_T11_372_PTR Mastery Heavy +400 Crit -400 Mastery: 29752dps
    Code:
    		Int	Spi	SP	Hit	Crit	Haste	Mastery
    Scale Factors	3.6945	1.3998	2.9008	1.4076	1.6683	2.1479	1.6697
    Normalized	1.0000	0.3789	0.7852	0.3810	0.4516	0.5814	0.4520
    This leads us to the idea that while using this profile, the optimal balance of Mastery and Crit is somewhere between 746 to 846 Crit and 879 to 979 Mastery (somewhere around a 1.15:1 ratio). So what does this mean for the rest of us? Clearly we see that the new best in slot list is not providing the maximum possible DPS as the old Crit Heavy profile provides more DPS than the new Mastery Heavy profile. The old Crit Heavy Profile has a Mastery to Crit ratio of 1.03:1. This is much closer to the 1.15:1 ratio than the new Mastery Heavy profile's ratio of 2.18:1. This means some of the notions of Mastery being greater than Crit in 4.0.6 are not entirely true. From, the results above, It appears that Mastery rating should remain better than Crit rating if your Mastery rating is below this 1.15:1 ratio. Should the total Mastery rating exceed this ratio, Crit rating will be a better stat.

    Priest_Shadow_T11_372 Old Heavier Crit Heavy profile: 29742dps
    Priest_Shadow_T11_372_PTR Mastery Heavy (2.18:1 ratio): 29652dps
    Priest_Shadow_T11_372_PTR Mastery Heavy (1.15:1 ratio): 29752dps

    Now, does this idea hold true over other profiles or just the new Mastery Heavy profile?

    Testing of Other Profiles

    Test 1: Old Crit Heavy 372 BIS Profile

    Priest_Shadow_T11_372 Crit heavy profile:
    Gear Summary
    gear_strength=20
    gear_agility=20
    gear_stamina=5913
    gear_intellect=4951
    gear_spirit=1497
    gear_spell_power=2207
    gear_hit_rating=261
    gear_crit_rating=913
    gear_haste_rating=2152
    gear_mastery_rating=938
    gear_armor=8502
    meta_gem=burning_shadowspirit <--had to be manually changed from Ember Shadowspirit
    tier11_2pc_caster=1
    tier11_4pc_caster=1
    *raid buffs are added when simulated

    If we look at an unadjusted simulation of the profile at a ratio of 1.03:1:

    Priest_Shadow_T11_372 Heavier Crit profile: 29742dps

    If we adjust the Crit Heavy Profile by adding 40 Mastery and subtracting 40 Crit to get a ratio of 1.21:1 Mastery to Crit:

    Priest_Shadow_T11_372 (1.21:1): 29747dps

    If we adjust the Crit Heavy profile by adding 50 Mastery and subtracting 50 Crit to get a ratio of 1.144:1 Mastery to Crit:

    Priest_Shadow_T11_372 (1.44:1 ratio): 29752dps <--this number looks familiar

    If we adjust the Crit Heavy profile by adding 60 Mastery and subtracting 60 Crit to get a ratio of 1.7:1 Mastery to Crit:

    Priest_Shadow_T11_372 (1.7:1): 29746dps

    So in this case, roughly, the 1.15 ratio holds true again.

    Test 2: New Mastery Heavy 359 BIS Profile

    Priest_Shadow_T11_359_PTR Mastery Heavy Profile:
    # Gear Summary
    # gear_strength=20
    # gear_agility=20
    # gear_stamina=5171
    # gear_intellect=4338
    # gear_spirit=1586
    # gear_spell_power=1954
    # gear_hit_rating=155
    # gear_crit_rating=196
    # gear_haste_rating=2224
    # gear_mastery_rating=917
    # gear_armor=7817
    # meta_gem=burning_shadowspirit
    # tier11_2pc_caster=1
    # tier11_4pc_caster=1
    *raid buffs added when simulated

    If we look at the unadjusted simulation at a ratio of 4.68:1:

    Priest_Shadow_T11_359_PTR Mastery Heavy unchanged : 25898dps

    If we adjust the Mastery Heavy Profile by subtracting 325 Mastery and adding 325 Crit to get a ratio of 1.136:1 Mastery to Crit:

    Priest_Shadow_T11_359_PTR (1.136:1) : 26813dps

    If we adjust the Mastery Heavy profile by subtracting 323 Mastery and adding 323 Crit to get a ratio of 1.145:1 Mastery to Crit:

    Priest_Shadow_T11_359_PTR (1.145:1) : 26820dps

    If we adjust the Mastery Heavy profile by subtracting 320 Mastery and adding 320 Crit to get a ratio of 1.16:1 Mastery to Crit:

    Priest_Shadow_T11_359_PTR (1.16:1) : 26809dps

    We see that again, the 1.15:1 is roughly the crossover point to Mastery and Crit.

    Test 3: Old Crit Heavy 359 BIS Profile

    Priest_Shadow_T11_359 Crit Heavy Profile:
    # Gear Summary
    # gear_strength=20
    # gear_agility=20
    # gear_stamina=5171
    # gear_intellect=4358
    # gear_spirit=1571
    # gear_spell_power=1954
    # gear_hit_rating=177
    # gear_crit_rating=623
    # gear_haste_rating=2200
    # gear_mastery_rating=552
    # gear_armor=7817
    # meta_gem=burning_shadowspirit <--had to be manually changed
    # tier11_2pc_caster=1
    # tier11_4pc_caster=1
    **raid buffs added when simulated

    If we look at the unadjusted simulation at a ratio of .886:1:

    Priest_Shadow_T11_359 Crit Heavy: 25870dps (.886:1 Ratio)

    If we adjust the Crit Heavy Profile by adding 75 Mastery and subtracting 75 Crit to get a ratio of 1.144 Mastery to Crit:

    Priest_Shadow_T11_359 (1.144:1) : 26204dps

    If we adjust the Crit Heavy Profile by adding 78 Mastery and subtracting 78 Crit to get a ratio of 1.56 Mastery to Crit:

    Priest_Shadow_T11_359 (1.56:1) : 26210dps

    If we adjust the Crit Heavy Profile by adding 81 Mastery and subtracting 81 Crit to get a ratio of 1.175 Mastery to Crit:

    Priest_Shadow_T11_359 (1.175:1): 26213dps

    Yet again, we see the 1.15:1 is roughly the crossover point to Mastery and Crit.

    Non-Math Things to consider

    Dark Intent

    The author of the Dark Intent guide in the Warlock forums is soon to start working on a revised list of his Dark Intent class priority list. Currently, this list holds us Shadow Priests as the best target to put their Dark Intent on. By neglecting Crit completely, we start to minimize our attractiveness as the best class for this buff. I spoke with him briefly and he seems to think that his initial testing says we will gain about 2% more than we do now, but Warlocks lose about 1% of their damage. These results was using the Mastery Heavy profile and were just a quick run he did for me because he is a nice guy.

    If a Warlock in your guild is super touchy with his Dark Intent, you may want to prioritize Crit over Mastery if it is the difference between getting the Dark Intent buff of not. Dark Intent is the single biggest DPS booster you can get in terms of raid buffs and you should do everything up to and including providing flasks and potions to the Warlock who casts it on you (if they make you).

    Mana

    If you're a new Shadow Priest and are struggling with mana, going with Crit is going to be a bigger gain for you by reducing your Shadow Fiend cool down through Mind Flay. Being out of mana is a bigger DPS loss than the balancing of Master and Crit.

    Conclusion

    Through several tests we have seen that purely stacking Mastery over Crit in 4.0.6 is not the best way to maximize your DPS.The interaction between Crit and Mastery appears to dictate a fluctuating importance when Mastery exceeds a 1.15:1 ratio with Crit. This will cause our ability to gear incredibly easy. We will now be able to take almost any Crit or Mastery piece of gear and just reforge as close to the cross-over point as possible to maximize our DPS.

    However, with all of this in mind, Haste will still remain superior to both Mastery and Crit until around 2500 Haste rating. Reforges to Haste should still be sought before reaching a 1.15:1 ratio of Mastery to Crit, so this may make it difficult to get close to the exact ratio number. The goal will be to get as close to 1.15:1 as possible without sacrificing Haste.

    tl;dr: When gearing in 4.0.6, balance your Mastery so that you have 1.15 Mastery per 1 Crit rating.

    THIS POST IS NOT CORRECT
    Last edited by New; 2011-01-29 at 10:06 PM.

  2. #2
    Deleted
    Very nice post.
    Unfortunately, I think it would be appreciated and used more if you posted it at elitistjerks.

    Thanks for posting, proves useful to me.

  3. #3
    Great to see, New! Which of the sims would you suggest using to weigh the stats of items, would you say? The +/-300 or the +/-400?

  4. #4
    If a Warlock in your guild is super touchy with his Dark Intent, you may want to prioritize Crit over Mastery if it is the difference between getting the Dark Intent buff of not. Dark Intent is the single biggest DPS booster you can get in terms of raid buffs and you should do everything up to and including providing flasks and potions to the Warlock who casts it on you (if they make you).
    DI on a spriest is the best outcome for the raids overall dps. If you honestly have to bribe your warlocks for DI then they are just idiots.

  5. #5
    Spam Assassin! MoanaLisa's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Tralfamadore
    Posts
    32,405
    Good supplement to your guide. Thanks.

    Hope you eventually add this to your sticky.

  6. #6
    Stood in the Fire Veiled's Avatar
    15+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Portland, OR
    Posts
    470
    oh my god, new.... too many numbers make mah brain hurt. <3

  7. #7
    The Patient
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada
    Posts
    252
    Quote Originally Posted by Herbo4 View Post
    DI on a spriest is the best outcome for the raids overall dps. If you honestly have to bribe your warlocks for DI then they are just idiots.
    You're right. However, there are still people out there who ignore superior logic and the hard facts provided by the Dark Intent guide on the Warlock forums. I mention catering to your Warlock because while you shouldn't have to change anything to appease him/her, doing so will net you about 2100 DPS so its worth while to do so.

    ---------- Post added 2011-01-29 at 04:05 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Twintop View Post
    Great to see, New! Which of the sims would you suggest using to weigh the stats of items, would you say? The +/-300 or the +/-400?
    This is where things get a little tricky, because the value of each stat is dependent on the level of the other. Mastery is worth more than Crit as it can still be more valuable until being 15% higher than Crit. I started thinking about what scale factors would be best to use in gear selection as far as making a list but I haven't come up with a good answer for that yet. I'll get back to you.

  8. #8
    On Live I have 1064 crit rating (14.19%), and only 140 mastery rating. I'm trying to understand if what you are saying that I should try and get 1223 mastery rating or reforge the crit into mastery until I am within the 1.15 more percentile for maximum DPS Output?

  9. #9
    The Patient
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada
    Posts
    252
    Unfortunately, due to how simulation craft works, all the the above work is not correct. I had thought simulation craft was doing what I wanted it to do and as a result, the numbers above are incorrect. Sorry for any inconvenience this has caused any of you.

    I am continuing to study the affect of Mastery in 4.0.6 as the scale factors for the Mastery Heavy profile are still correct at:

    Priest_Shadow_T11_372_PTR Mastery Heavy: 29652dps
    Code:
    		Int	Spi	SP	Hit	Crit	Haste	Mastery
    Scale Factors	3.5820	1.4617	2.7950	1.4656	1.5674	2.0494	1.5114
    Normalized	1.0000	0.4081	0.7803	0.4092	0.4376	0.5721	0.4220
    And the Crit Heavy profile still does provide:

    Priest_Shadow_T11_372 : 29741dps
    Code:
    		Int	Spi	SP	Hit	Crit	Haste	Mastery
    Scale Factors	3.6494	1.4841	2.8500	1.4872	1.5738	2.2221	1.6110
    Normalized	1.0000	0.4067	0.7810	0.4075	0.4312	0.6089	0.4414
    This means there still must be a relationship between Crit and Mastery that must be balanced, but the specifics behind this balance are still unknown. I will keep attempting to find this relationship and will post my results when/if I find them.
    Last edited by New; 2011-01-29 at 10:38 PM.

  10. #10
    Spam Assassin! MoanaLisa's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Tralfamadore
    Posts
    32,405
    Tough expansion for spriest theorycrafters

  11. #11
    anyway gj... hope well see some correct numbers soon

  12. #12
    Deleted
    At least you shared with us your (unfortunately wrong) hard work, so all we can say is thank you.

    I'm waiting for your next results.

  13. #13
    The Patient
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada
    Posts
    252
    I discovered the reason for the difference in the Mastery Heavy and Crit Heavy Profiles. While I had been changing the old Ember Skyspirit Diamond meta in the older profile to the new Burning Skyspirit Diamond meta, I had neglected to change the 100 Intellect to Off-Hand enchant. The new Mastery Heavy Profile had been using the 40 Intellect version of the enchant while the old profile was still using the 100 Intellect version. This lead to the increased DPS in the Crit Heavy profile. The correct values are as follows:

    Priest_Shadow_T11_372_PTR Mastery Heavy: 29652dps
    Code:
    		Int	Spi	SP	Hit	Crit	Haste	Mastery
    Scale Factors	3.5820	1.4617	2.7950	1.4656	1.5674	2.0494	1.5114
    Normalized	1.0000	0.4081	0.7803	0.4092	0.4376	0.5721	0.4220
    Priest_Shadow_T11_372 Crit Heavy Profile: 29519dps
    Code:
    		Int	Spi	SP	Hit	Crit	Haste	Mastery
    Scale Factors	3.6864	1.4264	2.8427	1.4281	1.6292	2.2385	1.5788
    Normalized	1.0000	0.3869	0.7711	0.3874	0.4419	0.6072	0.4283
    Since the Mastery Heavy Profile does in fact provide the highest DPS, my original theory remains incorrect.

    However, thoughts on Dark Intent may still be examined. We do see that Mastery and Crit are almost identical in value. Should the new results on the Dark Intent Guide drop us on the priority list (due to our lack of Crit; gimping the Warlock) we can easily drop some Mastery for Crit and lose a small amount of personal DPS for a higher potential raid gain.

    Again, sorry for the wrong information earlier, and thank you for reading.

  14. #14
    Is there a tldr for the correct numbers?

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •