Feral Tank help!

[Darkbluedeath]

Grumist - Runetotem for starters...
if you checked the armory you will notice i am stacking stam, and im reforging dodge.. im following what Rawr is telling me to do, but ive been seeing alot of people start going agi/hit/crit.

im roughly soft capped for my expertise, i have roughly 32% dodge from reforge/base stats off gear (in bear form)..

is my layout going well..

i also only am doing about 5.5k-7.5k to a single target boss.. is that low for a bear tank?

[Mystile]

There are quite a few threads on the first/second page about bears and these issues atm. Stamina is >generally< accepted to be less effective than agility. Expertise is mostly pointless, outside of doing trash mobs in heroics, unless you're in mostly 359 then expertise is slightly more valuable than crit. Ideally every piece of gear will have crit mastery with crit reforged to dodge.

[Shizznizz]

Gemming agility after a certain level of stam is the way to go for normal modes. You can reach this level of stam with a 346ilvl gear, steelskin flask, the agi food buff and your own MotW and fortidude.

For heroic modes, a bit more stam would be required.

Don't gem or reforge expertise, change that all to dodge. It's near useless for threat, its more for getting savage defense uptime.

[Richmond]

Dont use Rawr, its widely regarded as being pretty useless for Feral tanks at the minute.

Dont gem purely for stamina, aim for a mixture between agility + Stamina gems, Mastery + Stamina gems.

[Darkbluedeath]

Well ATM i am MT of my guild for Raids.. we are doing BWD atm downed Magmaw and are gaining progress on the Defense System. so im sorta outta heroics.. i have 6 359 (LW or Rep) gear..

And i was trying to follow those previous posts its just it seemed kinda like alot of stuff to reforge/gem personally.. but im liking the 174k health with MotW and Fort on :P

Im wondering if i should try and get hit/expertise capped (3 away from soft cap on Expertise)

[Barawr]

Dont use Rawr, its widely regarded as being pretty useless for Feral tanks at the minute.

Not sure where you got this information from as it works quite well if you put in the correct settings. If the user can't do things correctly the program will always give the wrong results. For instance, not turning off parry haste will result in RAWR highly recommending the use of expertise reforging and reaching the soft cap.

OP: If you check around on the other threads no the forum you will find that expertise or hit capping is FAR below survival/mitigation stats right now. Threat should be a non issue so I suggest sticking with stam, stam/agi, stam/mastery with reforging to dodge.

[Bytch]

Should always be hit capped...it's only 8%

---------- Post added 2011-01-29 at 10:13 AM ----------

Hit cap is first, then your other stats for Bears..Dodge cap= 60%+/-...Mastery..stam..agility..

[Reesify]

Should always be hit capped...it's only 8%

Hit cap is first, then your other stats for Bears..Dodge cap= 60%+/-...Mastery..stam..agility..

No. You do not need hit cap. There is no Dodge cap either. And it's Agility > Dodge > Stam > Mastery.

[Soisoisoi]

Should always be hit capped...it's only 8%

---------- Post added 2011-01-29 at 10:13 AM ----------

Hit cap is first, then your other stats for Bears..Dodge cap= 60%+/-...Mastery..stam..agility..

AFAIK, You don't -Need- Hit cap unless you're in interrupt duty, and bosses no longer parry-haste so expertise isn't needed either. Not to mention threat is fine past the first few hits.

OT: Have a read on EJ and maybe some other sites to see what stats are going to benefit you more.

[Mystile]

Should always be hit capped...it's only 8%

This is false information, you only NEED hit when interrupting. And to get that amount of hit Fluid Death (Valor point trinket) and a 90 hit food would be more than enough to cover it.

[Arielle]

OT: Have a read on EJ and maybe some other sites to see what stats are going to benefit you more.

Please stay away from EJ.

[Bytch]

Well, I guess the game has changed since Ive been in it. Always thought you had to be hit capped or you would have lots of misses.

---------- Post added 2011-01-29 at 10:43 AM ----------

Too many misses and you have loss of threat

[eternalwhitemoon]

Well, I guess the game has changed since Ive been in it. Always thought you had to be hit capped or you would have lots of misses.

---------- Post added 2011-01-29 at 10:43 AM ----------

Too many misses and you have loss of threat

Not being hit capped DOES mean you'll miss. However, Vengeance makes threat a complete joke, especially in raids. Taunt no longer misses either, so there really is not the crucial need to be hit capped like there used to be.

[Bytch]

Not being hit capped DOES mean you'll miss. However, Vengeance makes threat a complete joke, especially in raids. Taunt no longer misses either, so there really is not the crucial need to be hit capped like there used to be.

Well, well, then., What would be a decent hit % then as a bear (unbuffed) to be ready for raiding?

[eternalwhitemoon]

Well, well, then., What would be a decent hit % then as a bear (unbuffed) to be ready for raiding?

According to my research, most experienced bears (and tanks in general, actually) are saying not even to bother gearing for hit, just take what's naturally occurring on gear. My bear is simply an alt and hasn't done any raiding yet, so I can't say how that feels with my personal play style just yet.

Fluid Death is a nice trinket you might want to go for if you feel squeamish about not gearing for Hit, plus the 380 stacking Agi is delicious for both survivability and threat. Mystile recommended this trinket a few posts above me, and I'd agree.

[Bytch]

No. You do not need hit cap. There is no Dodge cap either. And it's Agility > Dodge > Stam > Mastery.

I know there isnt an actual dodge cap, but the 60% range is a good place to be.

---------- Post added 2011-01-29 at 11:01 AM ----------

According to my research, most experienced bears (and tanks in general, actually) are saying not even to bother gearing for hit, just take what's naturally occurring on gear. My bear is simply an alt and hasn't done any raiding yet, so I can't say how that feels with my personal play style just yet.

Fluid Death is a nice trinket you might want to go for if you feel squeamish about not gearing for Hit, plus the 380 stacking Agi is delicious for both survivability and threat. Mystile recommended this trinket a few posts above me, and I'd agree.

Very nice trinket in deed. Ive been away from game since the first wing of ICC opened. Havent played since.

[Soisoisoi]

Please stay away from EJ.

How about you explain why? They're the ones who do the math on what is technically better. I'm not saying stick 100% to what they say, but they give a decent guideline, especially if you sim stuff too.

[eternalwhitemoon]

I kinda side with Treelife about the EJ "debate".

EJ is not a god. They don't know everything. Their advice should always be taken with a grain of salt, BUT! Their advice is based on lots of solid math and discussion amongst reasonable and intelligent players and should be considered or at the very least read through and analyzed for yourself before discarding.

Myself, Arielle, Tangedyn, Fasc, and Zarko(who's a warrior, but still modeled druidy stuff) have all done extensive math and research. So no, EJ is not the only one who does math on what is technically better.

Of course they're not the only ones. But they are far more accessible to any new player than some individual players that no one would really know how to get a hold of.

[Reesify]

How about you explain why? They're the ones who do the math on what is technically better. I'm not saying stick 100% to what they say, but they give a decent guideline, especially if you sim stuff too.

Myself, Arielle, Tangedyn, Fasc, and Zarko(who's a warrior, but still modeled druidy stuff) have all done extensive math and research. So no, EJ is not the only one who does math on what is technically better.

EJ's Bear department fell far behind during Wrath and has yet to pick itself back up.

---------- Post added 2011-01-29 at 12:11 PM ----------

Of course they're not the only ones. But they are far more accessible to any new player than some individual players that no one would really know how to get a hold of.

How are the official Druid and Tank forums not accessible?

If anything, EJ's forums are far, far worse to navigate, and if you don't know what you're looking for you end up reading information that is inaccurate because you didn't read the thread in its entirety or pay attention to post dates. Not to mention, EJ is so retardedly strict about posting that it's comical. Tangedyn just got a warning for helping and replying to someone that apparently asked a stupid question, despite it being a valid one.

[Soisoisoi]

Myself, Arielle, Tangedyn, Fasc, and Zarko(who's a warrior, but still modeled druidy stuff) have all done extensive math and research. So no, EJ is not the only one who does math on what is technically better.

EJ's Bear department fell far behind during Wrath and has yet to pick itself back up.

I think it still has all the stat lists and tells you what you should be getting still on their Q&A/FAQs, but then again, if you have the decent info maybe you could make a 'guide' on here(if you haven't)?

How are the official Druid and Tank forums not accessible?

Generally the official forums(and here a lot of the time - which is why a few people re-direct to stickies or EJ etc. for the factual info) are full of idiots and trolls, and since EJ has very strict rules on posting it's a lot easier to get the right info instead of what people 'think' is right. Like someone above saying you need hit cap, when you really don't.