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  1. #1

    Prot T11, thinking of getting ret legs.

    If you want to look me up on the armory, I'm Ruzhyo on Norgannon.

    I'm coming up on the points needed to get my next piece of valor gear, and I'm giving a good hard look at the leggings. My last three upgrades lost me about 250 hit rating, and recovering from that has been pretty harsh. The ret T11 legs give hit and mastery, and the T11 prot legs give dodge and parry. If I'm honest, I really couldn't care about the set bonuses, they're garbage, so ignoring those it seems like the ret legs are the way to go. I get to keep my precious hit rating, and I get more of a better defensive stat. The only thing that sucks is I lose about 40 strength, because for some reason the prot legs have way more Str.

    Also, doesn't it seem like the prot set bonuses would be better for ret?

  2. #2
    Blademaster Spellpl's Avatar
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    as tank you dont need hit/expertise
    im tanking atm with 0 hit and 19 or smth like that expertise. Dont seem to lose aggro at all neither any of other tanks i play with (they went full avoidance)
    Just try to tank without any hit u will see almost no diffrence in threatgen.

  3. #3
    For at least the current tier hit is meaningless to us, vengeance scaling takes care of threat. Outside of the first 5-10 seconds that hit wont help you with threat, unless you're threat capping the dps (in which case you're doing something wrong anyway).

    In later tiers if bosses miss rate goes up to force dps to need more hit then we'll likely need some hit too, until then just ignore it.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Spellpl View Post
    as tank you dont need hit/expertise
    im tanking atm with 0 hit and 19 or smth like that expertise. Dont seem to lose aggro at all neither any of other tanks i play with (they went full avoidance)
    Just try to tank without any hit u will see almost no diffrence in threatgen.
    As a tank you DO in fact need the hitcap. Why? taunts and possible interrupts. Currently prot paladins aren't interrupters but they will be in a week. Missing an interrupt on Maloriak is a wipe. Not a instant wipe, but I'll cost to much mana.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Pieterman View Post
    As a tank you DO in fact need the hitcap. Why? taunts and possible interrupts. Currently prot paladins aren't interrupters but they will be in a week. Missing an interrupt on Maloriak is a wipe. Not a instant wipe, but I'll cost to much mana.
    taunts can't miss. welcome to cata.

  6. #6
    Stood in the Fire
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spellpl View Post
    as tank you dont need hit/expertise
    im tanking atm with 0 hit and 19 or smth like that expertise. Dont seem to lose aggro at all neither any of other tanks i play with (they went full avoidance)
    Just try to tank without any hit u will see almost no diffrence in threatgen.
    This is nonsense and should be avoided.

    Anyone thinking hit/expertise is just about TPS needs to read up.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by MarriageAuch View Post
    This is nonsense and should be avoided.

    Anyone thinking hit/expertise is just about TPS needs to read up.
    You propably also should read up.

  8. #8
    Being hit and expertise cap unless you are a bear is indeed not worth going for

  9. #9
    Same here with DK legs. The DPS legs dropped in baradin hold and they are infact better than the tank legs. The socket bonus is of corse crap but mastery/hit is by far better than dodge/parry.

  10. #10
    Stood in the Fire
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yai View Post
    You propably also should read up.
    No, I already do read up. Avoidence is a high priority, I agree, but the hit cap is important for avengers shield first pull/2nd on aggro tables. I have tried some small scale sims on 0 hit vs 8%, and whilst TPS survives fine, the amount of misses I get becomes more uncomfortable when raid tanking. Sure, I wont gimp my mastery for it, but when my dodge and parry are seemingly nice numbers, and Im not spikey, it's good to bring hit up with me.

    edit. p.s. thanks for the unconstructive post.

  11. #11
    The Insane det's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MarriageAuch View Post
    This is nonsense and should be avoided.

    Anyone thinking hit/expertise is just about TPS needs to read up.
    http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte.../lazeil/simple call me shallow, but I think what works for the MT of Paragon would work for everybody else too...

    0.72% hit, 2 expertise...

    As for pulling....MD pulls come to mind, Going in with 3 charges of HoPo from Divine plea and a ShotR...or simply dps holding back 5 seconds.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    One cause is a cognitive bias called projection bias. Essentially living inside your own head your entire life makes it exceedingly difficult to understand how others do not also live your same life, think your same thoughts, and hold your same beliefs. In many cases it's quite frustrating to try to empathize and understand why you yourself may not be the center of the universe, which generally results in one 'acting out' in various ways.
    So, in short: the internet.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by det View Post
    http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte.../lazeil/simple call me shallow, but I think what works for the MT of Paragon would work for everybody else too...

    0.72% hit, 2 expertise...
    And this is what I hate about this community. The guy ina top guild with top guildies around him does it so it must be right.


    What about if you have a dps team around you who arent top of their game, or healers who arent 'pro'. The point is the first 30 seconds of a fight it's important to get aggro and sustain it quite well. With a group of pimped out ppl who play as a career this is a pretty easy thing to achieve. But what do you know, not everyone is like that, heck, I would say most ARENT like that. For the most part the balanced approach serves most people well.

    But yeah, the 'best' guy in the game does it, let's all copy him and not think about how we minions play the game.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by MarriageAuch View Post
    This is nonsense and should be avoided.

    Anyone thinking hit/expertise is just about TPS needs to read up.
    Tank DPS in a raid environment is laughable, increasing that DPS through hit/expertise rather than increasing your survivability is nonsense.

    If a DPS dies because your not pushing for block cap and need spam healing through a truck load of damage you lose more dps than if you had stacked damage reducing stats, requiring less healing and allowing the healers to keep the DPSer up too.

    Tanks have two jobs, keeping aggro and staying alive. The former is not a problem, the easier you make the latter the smoother the raid is going to go. It is the DPS's job to kill the boss, not the tank.

    If you are refering to Taunts and Interupts, taunts can't miss, ever. Interupts should be handled by the DPS, who DO gain advantage in their primary roles by getting hitcapped. Yes we're getting a prot usable interupt, but I see that more as a 5-man/solo/pvp change as in a raid the role should be handled anyway.

  14. #14
    On 10 man heroic, having a tank without hit/exp is a real pain in the ass due to missed interrupts = pisswipe. You can't really afford to have tank + two interrupters sometimes.

    (Like you can on 25-man)
    Last edited by Subbb; 2011-01-31 at 12:46 PM.

  15. #15
    The Insane det's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MarriageAuch View Post
    And this is what I hate about this community. The guy ina top guild with top guildies around him does it so it must be right.

    Okay..so with that you basically kill the validity to any guilde. Similar suggestions (that Paladins don't need to be hitcapped etc) can be found on maintankadin too.

    Yes..I do think if it works for a guy in a top guild, then it would work for others too. Yes, ofc it would be great to get pinpointed advice, tailored exactly to the needs of the OP and his guild...but we have no info about him and his guild - which is where general advice comes in. You are creating a specific situation here.

    Let me ask the other way round then: Your advice to the guy would be: Get the retri legs as tank? Because he lacks hit?
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    One cause is a cognitive bias called projection bias. Essentially living inside your own head your entire life makes it exceedingly difficult to understand how others do not also live your same life, think your same thoughts, and hold your same beliefs. In many cases it's quite frustrating to try to empathize and understand why you yourself may not be the center of the universe, which generally results in one 'acting out' in various ways.
    So, in short: the internet.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Spellpl View Post
    as tank you dont need hit/expertise
    im tanking atm with 0 hit and 19 or smth like that expertise. Dont seem to lose aggro at all neither any of other tanks i play with (they went full avoidance)
    Just try to tank without any hit u will see almost no diffrence in threatgen.

    I think this only counts for paladins then?
    Last edited by Deluxo; 2011-01-31 at 12:41 PM.

  17. #17
    Blademaster Spellpl's Avatar
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    Going avoidance is right thing.
    Taunts cant miss anymore.
    Interrupts are not tank job and if they are (as DK) u can go for 3/3 Virtulence for spell hit (MF is spell and after patch u gonna get passive virtual it in every spec without wasting talent points). As it is paladin forums i dont know anything about your new interrupt and if u get any hit from any talent. If u are only interrupter in ur raid... U have really really really really bad setup.
    Threat is not needd. Best dpser in my guild can get only to 60% of my total threat even when im slacking on single target. (yes with 0% hit, paladins from my guild are doing same and they are glad they regemed/reforged into avoidance = much more survival)
    Avoidance is best way becouse bosses are hard hitting in 10mans and u need healthpool / avoidance-dmg reduction to be able to survive it.

    Currently its not worth it. Maybe next raiding tier when dps go much higher.

    Dont believe me - TEST IT.
    I did and im stunned about hit/expertise being so useless atm.

  18. #18
    The Patient Müdür's Avatar
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    dont think 4 set bonusses are crap. longer mitigations help more to your healers in tight situations. hit and exp is not much necessery for plate tanks it seems, but with the next patch you'll get pummel. and interrupt duties, if any, will need you to be hit capped I guess.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Deluxo View Post
    Total bullshit.
    The statement that there is no difference in threatgen is of course 'Total bullshit'.

    However, the intended meaning of it having no affect on being able to maintain a good threat lead is accurate.
    Last edited by Judge40; 2011-01-31 at 12:43 PM.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spellpl View Post
    Going avoidance is right thing.
    Taunts cant miss anymore.
    Interrupts are not tank job and if they are (as DK) u can go for 3/3 Virtulence for spell hit (MF is spell and after patch u gonna get passive virtual it in every spec without wasting talent points). As it is paladin forums i dont know anything about your new interrupt and if u get any hit from any talent. If u are only interrupter in ur raid... U have really really really really bad setup.
    Threat is not needd. Best dpser in my guild can get only to 60% of my total threat even when im slacking on single target. (yes with 0% hit, paladins from my guild are doing same and they are glad they regemed/reforged into avoidance = much more survival)
    Avoidance is best way becouse bosses are hard hitting in 10mans and u need healthpool / avoidance-dmg reduction to be able to survive it.

    Currently its not worth it. Maybe next raiding tier when dps go much higher.

    Dont believe me - TEST IT.
    I did and im stunned about hit/expertise being so useless atm.
    this, tanks don't need hit/exp to keep aggro.
    If you do, you are doing something wrong tanking.

    If you think no hit/exp is bullshit, go on, take the ret legs.
    Think you are the only person being laughed at then though

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