Bear aoe suggestions

[Deleo]

A talent similar to Blood and Thunder with Lacerate would be nice, maybe if you swipe a target that has at least one stack of lacerate all other targets hit by the swipe get a stack of lacerate.

Was thinking the same. Might be a bit OP tho. Like ,outdpsing the DPS, OP.

[Moozart]

Roll a warrior instead, my AOE threat is fine

[Azrile]

There are two different issues that are getting confused

1. If dps stick to kill order, do we have any AOE issues? No
2. Are our AOE abilities as good or as easy as other tank classes? No

I have absolutely no problem with aggro except if a dps goes after the wrong target.

As someone else said, I would much prefer a glyph of Faire Fire that added a 1 second silence. The hardest part of bear tanking is getting mobs away from the CCd stuff, not AOEing

[Arielle]

I'd prefer it if Thrash was just fixed.

[Mystile]

I'd prefer it if Thrash was just fixed.

And what, exactly, is wrong with thrash? It does as it is intended to. It deals damage in an aoe then causes a bleed. There is nothing to fix for this ability. They could add a threat modifier to it, but if they do it to thrash, why not swipe as well?

[xiza]

Teach me? I'm not getting anywhere near my off-tanks threat when it comes to AE tanking (Bear-ing in mind that there's very little AE tanking involved anymore) it's just certain situations such as BoT trash at the start and some boss fights.

without alot of vengeance stacks i'm having the same problem as you, that's true. our offtank is a paladin who rolls smooth through his awsum aoe-abilities, while i'm bashing my keys like insane to get any threat ... like i said, without at my (raidbuffed) vengeance stacks i'm struggling but i can pull aggro of him after a few moments. maul, mangle, lacerating everything whats there, more tab targeting, trash/swipe, spamming my free-mangle procs like insane > if you have more than 3 mobs around you and every single mob has at least 1 lacerate stack on it.
i always grin when i see the taunt animation over a trashmob from our other tank, i guess he doesn't like it if i pull aggro off him :b

on the other hand, our rogue always keeps using TotT on me since he's too lazy to change his macro. sometimes it helps @aoe tanking, sometimes not (screw you paladins! ^^)
but hey, it's usually only the issue while tanking trash... we shine like a god at single target tanking

[Elunedra]

blizzard needs to make Infected Wounds proc of bleed ticks and not of the currenct attacks (cased trash to put IW on all targets like thunderclap)

as for AOE threat.

The should make a glypth that increases the number of stacks on Natures graps bij 30 and make entrangle roots can take 10 times mroe damage vefore they break. that be cool like roots comming out of the floor all over and keeping our targets in place ;P

but making thorns useable in bear & cat be awsome aswel

[Andaja]

I still would like to see how are those people apply lecarate to 9 or so mobs, while making dps wait for around 16 seconds or so. And this is given the fact you are god tabed with 0s tab time. So that can easily got to a 20-25s.

As for suggestions, glyph or thorns making it castable in bear for would be sweet, thou i think it is suposed to be baseline spell, not glyph, but if they will implement it ill buy it.
The option of making swipe/thrash threat bigger is an ok option too. I still can't understand why they nerfed swipe by 30% while really making it a 70%, and then nerfing it for 20% (or was that 30% or whatever number) more.

My own suggestion would prolly be to make swipe have reversed chain healing effect aka first target get 100% damage, second smt like 70%, third 50% and so on. Should prolly hit around 5 or so targets. You wouldnt be able to spam it as its a threat dump still, but that would make it a real "cleave" like effect rather then 2.

[Peacemoon]

My only problem with bear AoE threat is you have to wait till 81 for Thrash. I know its a new skill, but it is kind of vital. I've never had an issue with AoE threat if i'm honest. If we are really low, they should increase the threat modifiers, as our damage is fine.

[Chaltione]

I tank on my bear at times, and even with a guildie who can push 12k average in heroics (with CC used, so no aoe cheating), I only loose aggro if he goes balls out on the wrong target.

Bears used to be the class that did so high AoE class that targetting was unimportant, dps could nuke hard on any target and the bear had aggro. Now Bears have to have a focus target and have dps who knows how to /assist.

Sounds like it's working as intended.

---------- Post added 2011-02-01 at 11:56 AM ----------

I still would like to see how are those people apply lecarate to 9 or so mobs, while making dps wait for around 16 seconds or so. And this is given the fact you are god tabed with 0s tab time. So that can easily got to a 20-25s.

Some of us are just used to tanking on classes that had to use tab targeting and spread the aggro (pre-wotlk warrior aoe anyone?)

If you want something close to wotlk easy-mode bear tanking, try this macro with random tab spam:

#showtooltip
/castsequence Thrash, Lacerate, Swipe(Bear Form), Lacerate
/cast !Maul

[Mystile]

Bears used to be the class that did so high AoE class that targetting was unimportant, dps could nuke hard on any target and the bear had aggro. Now Bears have to have a focus target and have dps who knows how to /assist.

I said this in the original post. Our aoe threat is fine, until you have that incompetent player who cannot follow a skull mark. That on it's own is fine, but what is not fine is that our aoe capability pales in comparison to the other three classes. Not only do they have more tools to work with, theirs (for the most part) hit harder.

Thunderclap seems to hit just as hard as swipe or thrash, and it spreads rend around, similar to thrash, but they have cleave which hits three targets, glyphed, where as maul hits two targets, glyphed. This doesn't even include the insane damage difference between the spells, I have seen my warrior's cleaves crit for over 20k, I am lucky if my maul crits for 16k, and the "cleave" effect is 50% of the original, making it a max crit of 8k in this scenario.

[Andaja]

Thunderclap seems to hit just as hard as swipe or thrash, and it spreads rend around, similar to thrash, but they have cleave which hits three targets, glyphed, where as maul hits two targets, glyphed. This doesn't even include the insane damage difference between the spells, I have seen my warrior's cleaves crit for over 20k, I am lucky if my maul crits for 16k, and the "cleave" effect is 50% of the original, making it a max crit of 8k in this scenario.

Dont forget revenge hiting two targets.

I tank on my bear at times, and even with a guildie who can push 12k average in heroics (with CC used, so no aoe cheating), I only loose aggro if he goes balls out on the wrong target.

Isnt this tanking with cc used and no aoe a single target tanking? Besides, its easy to tank one, two three or so mobs.

Some of us are just used to tanking on classes that had to use tab targeting and spread the aggro (pre-wotlk warrior aoe anyone?)

If you want something close to wotlk easy-mode bear tanking, try this macro with random tab spam:

#showtooltip
/castsequence Thrash, Lacerate, Swipe(Bear Form), Lacerate
/cast !Maul

Thanks for this suggestion, but my problem isnt the problem in tanking itself, hell i like tab targeting things. I did this in BC. I was taken to hyjal, but was never expected to aoe tank the whole groups, we had palas for that.
My problem is the waiting time to get lecarate spread rather then being able to start nuking asap. Fights liike halfus comes in mind. We release storm and whelps. We usually keep our aoe spells on cd while single targeting storm as for us whelps must go down as fast as posible, then the tank damage from storm alone isnt that threatening.
Maybe its really just l2p isue, but spending 9 gcds to just get initial agro on all is a bit stupid imho.
Another option is to not bring fire mages, frost dks, or locks, but seriously??

[Mauroa]

blizzard needs to make Infected Wounds proc of bleed ticks and not of the currenct attacks (cased trash to put IW on all targets like thunderclap)

Thrash applying IW would be insanely good. It's not even close to Thunderclap at the moment in terms of ease of application and uptime.

[Christan]

Some would probably disagree with me, but as a whole I think no tanking class has a great AoE ability anymore, not like in Wrath at least. Pally consencrate has a huge CD now. You melee ability can hit 3 targets, but Consencrate would hit everything. D&D for DK's still works pretty well and in my opinion DK's have passed pallies in terms of AoE tanking where used to pallies used to be tops. Maybe it is part of the effort by Blizz to make CC more needed, by nerfing AoE tanking in general.

learn paladin tanking please, you are only right about consecrate,
Hammer of the Righteous is NOT only 3 targets, and you did not throw in Holy Wrath

3 aoe abilities, with hammer on a 3 second, and holy wrath on a 16 second cd.
paladins do just fine on aoe tanking, and i've not found feral aoe tanking lacking, not amazing but i do not have random dps pulling off of me,

berserk-mangle spam, and thrash with inc. damage, an initial swipe+thrash for initial threat before mangle spam. if you aren't already tanking and know adds are coming pop thorns, you do not lose vengeance anymore unless you shift into another form...
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...aline/advanced is my druid, my paladin who was my main before cata is, Cokadìn-Darkspear I've no DK tank but i hear they rock atm at aoe threat.

i also have a warrior tank - bank alt Muleths-Darkspear
i got bored and leveled him in WotLK...

so yeah, in the future please look up what you think you know "unless you are absolutely certain" before spreading misinformation.


TLDR, feral aoe is fine, a slight bit higher threat, or another aoe with a cooldown, would be perfect.

paladins have a TON of aoe abilities - compared to other classes.

Blood and Thunder for warriors is lovely (spreads rend when an thunderclap is used) however Shockwave is counter-productive to building vengeance - less damage being dealt = less threat.

DK's? i hear they are good.

[Kagonos]

Thrash applying IW would be insanely good. It's not even close to Thunderclap at the moment in terms of ease of application and uptime.

This might be nice, but it wouldn't address the lower threat generation of a bear compared to other classes. Do I think we should be the same as every tank out there? Fuck no! That's why leaving the threat the way it is and simply making thorns usable in BEAR FORM ONLY would keep us different from the other tanks without making us "OP" or even breaking us in PVP. It would be a simple fix. Give thorns a moderate CD (IDK 20 second duration, 60 second CD or whatever...) make it usuable in bear form only (NO CATS) and allow it to have a slight threat component OR allow it to scale moderately with your AP. Quite frankly, I don't understand why this isn't already implemented. Even without scaling or an added threat component, it would still make sense to allow this... It would allow you to get in, hit the mobs with thrash or swipe, whichever you open with, hit thorns, now all those mobs already on you will continue to build threat just for attacking you. With a shorter duration, it won't just turn into a button you must have at all times, it probably wouldn't even have to be a part of a "rotation," but it would help to solve the issue of initial aggro.

Anyone out there disagree? If so, what problems could you see arising from this? Why would it not make sense, etc? I genuinely think this is something that should be presented to Blizzard to see what they think... Maybe it has and I just haven't looked into it much =)

[Arielle]

And what, exactly, is wrong with thrash? It does as it is intended to. It deals damage in an aoe then causes a bleed. There is nothing to fix for this ability. They could add a threat modifier to it, but if they do it to thrash, why not swipe as well?

The bleed from Thrash is mitigated by armor. It shouldn't be.

[sageosaka]

to the people that are saying "my aoe threat is ok, leave bears alone", keep in mind that once dps classes start getting a lot more geared up, its going to be less and less "ez mode" to hold aoe threat and eventually bears will need a buff to keep in line with the rest of the tanks.