Chimaeron Hard Mode tank gibbing - bug?

[Angelfeeties]

Our 10man spent a good 3 hours tonight working on Chimaeron hard mode. We kept having an issue over and over, seemingly at random. Did some research in between attempts but couldn't find anything concrete on the issue.

We used our DPS Frost DK to MT with our 2 tanks off on separate sides taunt swapping as required with break stacks and double attacks (pretty standard strat). What kept happening was during the Feud, the double attack buff would come up, our tank without break stacks would taunt to eat it, then in the span of 0.05 seconds (sometimes less, sometimes as much as half a second) Chimaeron would land a melee hit, followed by his double attack. The tank would effectively take about 300k damage in the span of a heartbeat, with nothing we could do about it. We started twisting in guardian spirits to anticipate it, chaining soulstones on the tanks as much as possible, etc., but considering we go through about 4-5 Feud's before pushing phase 2, it's nearly impossible to cover all of the double attacks with death-saving abilities for these occurrences (around 10 times during various Feud's).

The tanks started thinking they were taunting at the wrong times and started to switch it up. They'd taunt a heartbeat after the buff came up, heartbeat after it faded, waited to the point where the other tank started to panic that he was going to get double attacked, etc. They even started watching for the melee animations before taunting to make sure his attack cycle was finished. Nothing would work conclusively. Sometimes, Chimaeron would land a melee hit before his double and the tank would die. Other times, Chimaeron would turn around and just do his double attack like normal, and the tank would live.

That was the cause of 80% of our wipes. It was infuriating. Healing was on the ball, DPS was ahead of the enrage timer, we even had a couple beautiful pushes into P2 during a Feud with everyone topped up just to have Chimaeron do a final melee/double attack to one of our tanks then spew on half the raid because the DPS DK was third on threat.

Anyone else running into this same issue? By the end of the night we figured this was a bug that blizzard hasn't bothered to hotfix yet. Unless i'm blind (possible) I also don't see any changes regarding Chimaeron in the 4.0.6 patch notes.

P.S. Logs aren't up yet unfortunately. Every time this would happen, i'd check the death logs and see the following (values are ~):

0.85 - (100%) - 114k Chimaeron melee hit.
0.80 - (40%) - 143k Chimaeron DoubleAttack
0.00 - Dead.

[Vordie]

On my 25 group we have a Lay on Hands rotation to top the tank. We struggled too at the start but got him to 5% last night.

But I don't know if you can actually do that on 10-man, maybe if you grab a paladin tank, a retri and two holys, then survive through soulstone at the last one Feud? If you have the available setup, give it a try.

[Deleted]

Same thing here, .. we've been wasting over 10hrs on this fight .. .. I assume we're doing everything correctly by now, .. we even stopped having random people dying, .. but for some reason, our tanks which in raids have over 180k hp, .. get one shotted even with shieldwall/other cooldowns, ..

[Nigeldruid]

Doesn't sound like anything out of the ordinary, you need low CDs on the fued tanks for double attacks. It's kinda the only thing really different on hardmode pre P2. Also think out of the box. How can you save the tank? Hunter pet intervene? Pet taunts? Safe guard etc etc. Options are plenty full

[Deleted]

Heh, my guild is almost at that heroic encounter too, and as a main tank I don't like the looks of this D:

[stressball]

On my 25 group we have a Lay on Hands rotation to top the tank. We struggled too at the start but got him to 5% last night.

But I don't know if you can actually do that on 10-man, maybe if you grab a paladin tank, a retri and two holys, then survive through soulstone at the last one Feud? If you have the available setup, give it a try.

You shouldn't have to stack 4 paladins and require at least one warlock in the raid group to beat this encounter. I havn't been there myself, but if that is the case, it's severly screwed up and blizz needs to change it.

Smart thinking, though.

[Angelfeeties]

On my 25 group we have a Lay on Hands rotation to top the tank. We struggled too at the start but got him to 5% last night.

But I don't know if you can actually do that on 10-man, maybe if you grab a paladin tank, a retri and two holys, then survive through soulstone at the last one Feud? If you have the available setup, give it a try.

We have prot paladin and ret paladin, they do LOH rotations to bring up the tanks after massacre when entering Feud phases to help out the healers. That isn't the issue. The main issue is the seemingly randomized extra melee hit that lands right before the double attack on the tank that taunts to eat it. It's supposed to just be: Taunt - Double Attack - Retaunt. Not: Taunt - Melee Hit + Double attack (at the same time) - Retaunt.

[Vordie]

We have prot paladin and ret paladin, they do LOH rotations to bring up the tanks after massacre when entering Feud phases to help out the healers. That isn't the issue. The main issue is the seemingly randomized extra melee hit that lands right before the double attack on the tank that taunts to eat it. It's supposed to just be: Taunt - Double Attack - Retaunt. Not: Taunt - Melee Hit + Double attack (at the same time) - Retaunt.

Taunt - Hit (Lay on Hands) + Double Attack - Taunt Back - Profit.

That's how we do it at least, there shouldn't be an issue with bringing two groups to 10k with two priests (I'm assuming two priests cause you said Guardian Rotation).

[Angelfeeties]

Taunt - Hit (Lay on Hands) + Double Attack - Taunt Back - Profit.

That's how we do it at least, there shouldn't be an issue with bringing two groups to 10k with two priests (I'm assuming two priests cause you said Guardian Rotation).

I'll post some of our logs when they are up, but there is no time whatsoever to do a LOH in between the melee hit and the double attack. No time.

Scroll up to my original post, look at the bottom. The melee hit and double attack sometimes land as low as 0.05 seconds apart, its never more than half a second. You can't fit a LOH in between that.

We run Holy Priest/Resto Shaman x2. Healing isn't an issue, we have zero problems with keeping people above 10k and raid healing during Feud is a joke. The only issue we have is the tank taking in excess of 250k damage in the span of half a second, and it happening randomly.

EDIT: More research. Apparently there is issues with Chimaeron storing up queued melee hits and dumping them along with a double attack post-massacre. See: http://www.tankspot.com/showthread.p...cent-Chimaeron

[Deleted]

Killed him 3 or 4 times on 10 man hc now, this is how we do it with tanks.

Warrior starts maintanking, Druid taunts double attacks.

First feud -> Druid taunts and keeps tanking until next feud(Barkskin + Hand of sacrifice).

Dps DK taunts first double after feud is over (with some DK defensive cd), by then the warriors break stack is off.

Second feud -> Warrior taunts and keeps tanking until next feud (Some cds/angel if needed)

Dps DK taunts first double again (getting Hand of sacrifice)

Third feud -> Druid taunts and keeps tanking until next feud (Shield wall)

----Repeat----

Saving LoH for OH-SHI---- RNG feuds.

[Frozendekay]

I'll post some of our logs when they are up, but there is no time whatsoever to do a LOH in between the melee hit and the double attack. No time.

Scroll up to my original post, look at the bottom. The melee hit and double attack sometimes land as low as 0.05 seconds apart, its never more than half a second. You can't fit a LOH in between that.

We run Holy Priest/Resto Shaman x2. Healing isn't an issue, we have zero problems with keeping people above 10k and raid healing during Feud is a joke. The only issue we have is the tank taking in excess of 250k damage in the span of half a second, and it happening randomly.

EDIT: More research. Apparently there is issues with Chimaeron storing up queued melee hits and dumping them along with a double attack post-massacre. See: http://www.tankspot.com/showthread.p...cent-Chimaeron

No, this is not the issue. He used to be able to double attack right after massacre. He can't anymore. He loses the buff when massacre finishes casting. That's what was being debated in the tankspot thread.

I've never seen your particular issue before. Double attacks can have as much as .1 seconds between them, are you absolutely sure this isnt what you're seeing? Your logs should look like this if your issue is real:

0.15 Chimaeron Melee Frozendekay - 135k
0.1 Chimaeron Melee Frozendekay - 130k
0.07 Chimaeron Melee Frozendekay - 133k.

Where there are 3 attacks. Double attack is 2 seperate melee swings, and is not actually called double attack if I recall correctly.

[mysteel]

You need a cooldown up in EVERY single feud to keep the tanks alive.
The way we did it was with a DK dps tanking aswell
Tank 1 takes first Double attacks and tanks in feud with own cds
Tank 2 takes next round of double attacks and tanks in feud with own cds
Tank 1 takes next with Holy pala cd
Tank 2 takes next with Guardian spirit and own cd
Tank 1 takes with own cds

After this he should be below 20%

[Blacksen]

We struggled with this in heroic 25man. Ultimately, we found that a damage reduction cooldown was absolutely essential for every Double Attack. Remember that Chimaeron has a 4+ second Swing speed, so as soon as the Double Attack buff goes up, you should have ample time to get the tank a cooldown.

As long as you have one priest or paladin (paladin for bubble+sac), you should be able to consistently land a tanking cooldown at every double attack.

[Deleted]

We have prot paladin and ret paladin, they do LOH rotations to bring up the tanks after massacre when entering Feud phases to help out the healers. That isn't the issue. The main issue is the seemingly randomized extra melee hit that lands right before the double attack on the tank that taunts to eat it. It's supposed to just be: Taunt - Double Attack - Retaunt. Not: Taunt - Melee Hit + Double attack (at the same time) - Retaunt.

You do realize Double Attack is a melee swing instantly followed by an ability called "Double Attack", right? That's why it's called DOUBLE attack in the first place ...

[Hotcandy]

We struggled with this in heroic 25man. Ultimately, we found that a damage reduction cooldown was absolutely essential for every Double Attack. Remember that Chimaeron has a 4+ second Swing speed, so as soon as the Double Attack buff goes up, you should have ample time to get the tank a cooldown.

As long as you have one priest or paladin (paladin for bubble+sac), you should be able to consistently land a tanking cooldown at every double attack.

We struggled with this in heroic 25man. Ultimately, we found that a damage reduction cooldown was absolutely essential for every Double Attack. Remember that Chimaeron has a 4+ second Swing speed, so as soon as the Double Attack buff goes up, you should have ample time to get the tank a cooldown.

As long as you have one priest or paladin (paladin for bubble+sac), you should be able to consistently land a tanking cooldown at every double attack.

10mans don't have cooldowns to spam on every double attack. After 3 weeks of Heroic Chimaeron I can offer these very helpful tips to any guild strugging on this boss.

First off, 10man and 25mans deal with the exact tank damage. This being known it should be doable with few cooldowns or none right? Right.

This fight is doable with 2 tanks rotating breaks. If you have a strong plate DPS feel free to add them as a break tank. The rotation you should use for 2 tanks rotating breaks is as follows:

Tank 1 is break tank.
Tank 2 is DA tank.
The tank doing DA will always tank feuds (and shouldn't have any breaks)
Tank 2 now becomes break tank after feud.
Tank 1 will have 4 breaks and needs to survive (1) DA with the 4 breaks.
a 20% reduction will always almost survive this, but use armor potion and trinket uses here.
Keep this rotation up.

When 2 tanks rotate for feuds there should be a good use of cooldowns available for each feud. This was our cooldown rotation using a Feral Druid 358 Ilvl and a DK 351 Ilvl this week.

First Feud Feral Druid Tank... Walks in with Frenzied Rejuvenation, Guardian angel on the DA, Barskin after DA.

Second Feud DK tank... Walks in with Bone Shield, pops IBF for DA, pops vamp blood right before DA.

Third Feud Feral Druid Tank... Walks in with Barkskin, pops Survival Instincts for DA.

Fourth Feud DK tank... Walks in with Bone Shield, Guardian Angel for DA, Pops Vamp Blood after DA.

Fifth Feud Feral Druid tank... Walks in with barskin, pops Frenzied Rejuv for DA, Paladin Bubble Sacs, as we push over to p2.

We were unlucky and got feuds back to back to back so did it in 5 feuds. We do this without a break tank so you'll notice if you do this your tanks will have to eat a DA with 4 stacks of break, Chimaeron will hit APPROX 50% harder (look for hits that range from 160k to 220k), so how do you survive those?

Use armor potion, trinket uses, top off the person 100%, GIVE them a priest bubble will absorb about 8-10k (It stays on for 30s so apply it directly after massacre), and use small CDs (Vamp blood or barkskin if you feel you need to I know our druid doesn't and hasn't gotten gibbed here in a while, but our DK needed to pop Vamp because of her gear)

Bring boss to lower 24% POP lust as soon as he feuds while stacked, pop lusted tranquility, divine hymn, etc.

You don't need to stack cooldowns or have superbly geared tanks.

[Deleted]

I see what you people are saying, .. And I still agree with OP, .. In some cases, in the feud phase we have Melee Hit + Double Attack, in the spancircle of 0.5 seconds, we are a 25 man guild so we rotate, hand of sacrifice, Disc priest cd, holy priest cd, .. and ofc, the tank uses his own cooldowns .. Hell Even that didn't help, tank took 190k dmg in 0.5 secs.

[Deleted]

Hey, my guild is currently wiping on this boss as well mainly due to the ' RNG? ' of the fight. We're basically hoping for our Feral tank to Dodge an attack during that phase.
It's one of those fights which is slightly harder on 10man due to the lack of cooldowns available to keep the tank alive.
We're currently using 2 LoH and Priest Wings - as well of course the bears Cooldowns, but in some attempts he will still die instantly during the feud.

We're currently using:
Frost DK for standard attacks and breaks
Protection Paladin (me) for the double strikes not during feud
Feral Druid for the whole duration of the feud phases

And obviously the only one of us getting wrecked is the druid, I think the damage is a bit of a joke for 10man.. We'll be trying again later tonight though, will update if we change anything and succeed.

We've started to get into P2 a lot more, best attempt was 5% followed by an 8%.
The window in which to enter P2 is really tight as well,

[reflection]

Hm... we tried a slighty different strategy. Our MT eating all the break stacks is a normal melee DD as long as there is now feud. Double Strike gets taken by 1 of 2 tanks. The other tank doesn't do anything before feud. When feud is cast the double strike tank tanks the feud phase (using all CDs ofc). After feud the melee tanks again and the other tank gets eats the double strikes... I think you can guess what I mean.

Sure that doesn't help on the problem from the OP, but then you don't need three tanks at least

though we did not kill him right now. Maybe this evening.

[LuNa-]

It's completely normal, that is why your tanks should pop every cooldown at that time...

[Deleted]

I get exactly what you mean. And no, it's not the Double Attack... Two different senarios, and in 10man you dont have CD's to pop every feud.
Sometimes totaly random Chimaeron decides to randomly do a meleeswing followed by a Double attack which will total in around 250-300k damage with 0 breaks on the tank, totaly unavoidable, not the same as double attack.