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  1. #41
    I have to say that I agree with the fact that Discipline is definitely not that underpowered as most claim it to be. It could use a small buff in regards to raw output, but we're getting that in 4.0.6 anyway. I've always played disc, and I absolutely love the diversity of the spec combined with the very powerful cooldowns like barrier and pain suppression. I only have a holy offspec for those fights where it simply outshines discipline because of fight mechanics (for example al'akir, atramedes, chimaeron - mainly for body and soul, and chimaeron because holy is superior in aoe output). But every other fight I have succesfully duo or trio healed as discipline.

    What many do not realize is that Discipline is all about managing your cooldowns and adjusting your raid accordingly as well. A well placed/timed power:word barrier can mitigate a TON of damage to the raid, yet the meters will never show this. But any good raider will understand how powerful the disc spec is.

    In short, if you feel like you under perform in regards to output, try to remember that discipline brings more to the table but raw output. It feels slightly underpowered now compared to wotlk-bubblespam days, but that's because our bubble absorbs roughly the same amount as in wotlk, with quadrupled healthpools making it next to impossible. But this is getting 'fixed' hopefully next week.

  2. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by Kraide View Post
    In 5-mans you can try a few other ways to make your mana stretch farther. For example, you can keep Ghealing that tank to keep your Grace stack up, and if you need to hit another party member, try to use Prayer of Healing or Binding Heal, neither of which will break Grace on the tank. And if you get that emergency NEED to heal, you can throw a gheal on that player and then penance your tank to get Grace back up. Of course it is easy to combine that with PW:S and/or Prayer of Mending.

    In fact, I've been weaving Binding Heal into my rotation quite a bit as Disc currently, because it costs no more than flash heal, does not break grace on the tank, and does not heal for significantly less than flash heal on your target. I have no mana problems in 5-mans, so that probably isn't effective for EVERYBODY, but it does give me a very "safe" way to heal non-tank party members.

    Of course, Grace-wise, the next patch will completely fix that, and I'll sadly have a hard time remembering Binding Heal again, even though it's always useful when you don't forget about it.
    Not sure what his problem is, but I've been disc-healing heroics since December 8th. If you're having serious serious issues in heroics, it's probably because you're in the mindset of wrath: as healer I can carry bads and let them stand in shit. That's just not the case anymore. If damage input is too high on your group then THEY'RE DOING SOMETHING WRONG, not you.

    ---------- Post added 2011-02-04 at 04:22 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Chob View Post
    I have to say that I agree with the fact that Discipline is definitely not that underpowered as most claim it to be. It could use a small buff in regards to raw output, but we're getting that in 4.0.6 anyway. I've always played disc, and I absolutely love the diversity of the spec combined with the very powerful cooldowns like barrier and pain suppression. I only have a holy offspec for those fights where it simply outshines discipline because of fight mechanics (for example al'akir, atramedes, chimaeron - mainly for body and soul, and chimaeron because holy is superior in aoe output). But every other fight I have succesfully duo or trio healed as discipline.

    What many do not realize is that Discipline is all about managing your cooldowns and adjusting your raid accordingly as well. A well placed/timed power:word barrier can mitigate a TON of damage to the raid, yet the meters will never show this. But any good raider will understand how powerful the disc spec is.

    In short, if you feel like you under perform in regards to output, try to remember that discipline brings more to the table but raw output. It feels slightly underpowered now compared to wotlk-bubblespam days, but that's because our bubble absorbs roughly the same amount as in wotlk, with quadrupled healthpools making it next to impossible. But this is getting 'fixed' hopefully next week.
    I would agree with using holy for 10-man Chimaeron, but on 25-man, PW:B is just WAAAAAAAAY too OP not to have. Even for 10-man, I would say it's at least debatable whether the raw output of holy beats the super super easy feuds every other time. It might depend on your other healers, tbh.

  3. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by DomBomb1 View Post
    Not sure what his problem is, but I've been disc-healing heroics since December 8th. If you're having serious serious issues in heroics, it's probably because you're in the mindset of wrath: as healer I can carry bads and let them stand in shit. That's just not the case anymore. If damage input is too high on your group then THEY'RE DOING SOMETHING WRONG, not you.

    ---------- Post added 2011-02-04 at 04:22 PM ----------



    I would agree with using holy for 10-man Chimaeron, but on 25-man, PW:B is just WAAAAAAAAY too OP not to have. Even for 10-man, I would say it's at least debatable whether the raw output of holy beats the super super easy feuds every other time. It might depend on your other healers, tbh.
    I'm purely speaking from 10man point of view, sorry I should probably have clarified that. I agree that having at least 1, possibly even 2 disc priests in 25m would largely trivialize the fight.

    For 10m I use lightwell every other Feud, which has nearly the same effect as power:word barrier due to it's insane healing, so it is debatable whether discipline is more useful or not, personally I prefer going with holy for that fight.

  4. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by Blakkeyez View Post
    Well, I can agree to that to a certain extent. However this is still a very peripheral, almost silly argument to what spec is easier to play.
    You'll also find that it was a very minor point in my original post. You wanted bring it up, even editing my original statement, which was: Yes, Discipline is easier to gear for and easier to understand. Not: "Discipline is easier to gear for." The claim that it's peripheral and silly is a bit of a stretch. A more accurate statement is that it's a contributing factor to the ease of playing the spec. If it's easier to gear up you will perform better earlier complimenting the ease of play and making the overall difficulty lower.

  5. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by MagusUnion View Post
    Disc Healing = "I'm going to throw this shield on you so that when you get attacked, the shield takes all your damage... or so I hope..."

    Holy healing = "Damn dude, you got fucked up... give me, like, five seconds, and I can mend you back to normal..."

    In a nutshell, basically...


    not 100% true.


    Disc does not revolve around shields anymore like it used to. Disc is more about raw healing now with the addition to mitigate damage.

    Disc esp at beginning heroic levels, should get the train of thought talent and find greater heal as their best friend.

    Disc is about using what you have at the right moment not just facerolling heals.


    Greater Heal + PoH + Smite[Attonement] is the priority you should be using your spells. Mending on cooldown, binding if you are taking damage and also trying to heal people.

    Penance is weaker then it used to be, yes. However it still comes out around the same as a greater heal or even a flash heal, and costs less mana. Don't use it as an emergency heal by any means, but using it isn't a bad idea either.

    Use your bubbles for minor emergencies and raputre returns, learn how to keep track of your rapture cooldown now. You will want to know how if you plan on doing raids at any point in your life, esp hardmodes.

    DO NOT USE RENEW, ESPECIALLY AS DISC. NOT EVEN ON THE TANK. It just does NOT heal for enough as disc if you aren't talented into it, and you SHOULDN'T be talented/glyphed into it anyway. Just a bad idea.


    Barrier should be used for when the tank is either about to take a crapton of damage or for example on a fight like rahj in HoO where you can stack up in the middle during aoe phase to mitigate a lot of the damage.

    If you try using barrier on a tank at 20% health, chances are hes going to die anyway, learn how to use it BEFORE damage comes.



    Phew, lots of info. But i hope this helps a little.

  6. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by harky View Post
    A more accurate statement is that it's a contributing factor to the ease of playing the spec. If it's easier to gear up you will perform better earlier complimenting the ease of play and making the overall difficulty lower.
    I agree disc is easier to gear up initially but, needing less spirit than holy priests, disc priests will have more competition in the form of dps on the more optimal pure throughput items in a raid environment.

    As to ease of play, neither is terribly difficult to gain a reasonable amount of proficiency. I think disc is a little easier to come to terms with the basics, provided the priest isn't tainted by the wrath disc mentality, but when it comes to tweaking the very most from one's healing tree, I'd argue that they're very close right now.

    In short, it's easier to learn the basics of disc, but both are similarly difficult to master.

  7. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by ZippyDoodle View Post
    Disc does not revolve around shields anymore like it used to. Disc is more about raw healing now with the addition to mitigate damage.
    But raw healing is what holy is for, and when someone takes lots of damage that isn't the tank, getting them back to full with a 20K DA proc is worthless. Sure it can mitigate damage when people are taking damage, but that isn't always the case (5 man heroics).

  8. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by JDPickle View Post
    But raw healing is what holy is for, and when someone takes lots of damage that isn't the tank, getting them back to full with a 20K DA proc is worthless. Sure it can mitigate damage when people are taking damage, but that isn't always the case (5 man heroics).
    Disc has bigger direct heals (largely due to grace) which makes it pretty good for topping people off.

  9. #49
    The Patient Yazus's Avatar
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    Disc is not like in WOTLK anymore... cant spam shields. Holy is overall better ATM but Disc can help a lot in some fights. But while Holy is always useful Disc is very situational.

  10. #50
    Stood in the Fire Obtuse's Avatar
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    Yeah I gotta agree that disc is waaaaaay better off then most people give it credit for. The main difference I find between disc and holy has been mentioned: Disc is about preventative healing and Holy is reactive healing. Holy could be considered easier for fights that you know nothing about. Your healing output is better, mana regen better and if people stand in the fire you can do something about it. Disc is much like it's always been. When you know the fights and know the people you can be an unstoppable force. Come 4.0.6 we're going to be waaaay too overpowered (which I am stoked about). Problem is right now, if you start to fall behind as a disc priest, catching back up means you're going to burn your mana like no tomorrow.

    My recommendation for any priest who doesn't have a shadow spec is to have a holy and disc spec. Run Holy on new fights and disc on experienced ones. Then drop holy and just go Disc/Disc!

  11. #51
    If your guild only runs two priests in heroic modes, please believe they will be asking both of them to go disc for a lot of different hardmodes.

    Most top end guilds run 1 holy two disc, why? Barrier, barrier is a MUST on so many of the heroic raid bosses currently.


    1 holy due to the shear output holy has on other classes/specs. And more cooldowns on tanks for oh say, omnitron /sadface D:

  12. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by Madam View Post
    Trouble is PW:B and PS don't show up on meters, but most good players already know the value of a Disc Priest.
    Reminds me of Wrath when others would post meters to show how well the did, but had no clue about absorbs.
    pw:s does so stop kidding yourself that you are doing more than you really are.

  13. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by Tlacotl View Post
    pw:s does so stop kidding yourself that you are doing more than you really are.
    PS =! PW:S

    Pain Supression =! Power Word: Shield

  14. #54
    The Patient Physicx's Avatar
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    there are some crazy comments on here lol. disc is great, primarily for tank healing. using your pw:s only for rapture and macroing inner focus to Gheal/PoH= 0 mana issues, you dont even need to load on spirit. holy is the best raid healer in the game right now as long as ppl L2lightwell and with great mana regen ,chakra is pretty ez to pick up on, there is really nothing too it. so to say " what is easier?" thats just a silly question, it depends on what fight and what raid makeup you have. im MS holy cuz im raid healing most of the time. but i keep my OS disc for certain fights where disc just shines better ie. halfus, or if im focused on a tank for most of the fight.
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  15. #55
    I also don't really understand some of the discipline hate. Perhaps people saw only holy paladins and holy priests on the Sinestra kill and assume disc is worthless or something.

    I have honestly found it waaaayyyy easier to heal heroics as disc. Once I was geared for PVE I even dropped Train of Thought in order to spec for PVP and I still find it easier to heal heroics as disc instead of PVE holy. Absorbs and cooldowns are quite strong and Grace makes it easy to dump healing into a DPS being focused, whether that's because the DPS is stupid or the tank sucks. Absorbs will only get better in 4.0.6. PoH is totally viable since it crits so much and puts DA on everyone. Chakra Heal is tedious to set up in a heroic environment, especially if your group is geared enough to not have to CC every mob but one in each trash pack. Lightwell can't move and has a long cooldown, so the actual use you get out of it is low in heroics.

    that said, I just can't find a reason to be disc in raids when holy priests are so strong at AOE healing. HW Sanctuary and Lightwell are amazing. I haven't seen any 25 man content and haven't finished any of the raids on 10 man yet so I'm not too experienced, but Lightwell and HW:S's usefulness always seems to trump absorbs.

    I live in my PVP disc spec for absolutely everything I do except raiding.

    [e] there are a couple times holy's better in heroics. first dude in SFK, I think Headed South is prolly easier as holy, maybe I Hate That Song for B&S sprints, It's Frost Damage for aoe heals. that's all I can think of.
    Last edited by saye; 2011-02-05 at 04:41 PM.

  16. #56
    basicly holy is MUCH easier to play than disc

    1) 4set= disc have to use penance+pw:s every penance CD while holy just being in chakra procs it
    2) your use of CD's as disc matter alot more than your CD's as holy. pw:barrier is very strong is every one is stacked, ps = same as gs tbh and finaly PI can be used to top people in heavy ae dmg while concerving mana making the most out of this is key.

    for AE healing they are on par except from some fights where the hot heals and your DA wont be used. but if you use skada and it counts in pw:b as an absorb it bring disc above holy (chim hm 100mill absorb)

  17. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by saye View Post
    [e] there are a couple times holy's better in heroics. first dude in SFK, I think Headed South is prolly easier as holy, maybe I Hate That Song for B&S sprints, It's Frost Damage for aoe heals. that's all I can think of.
    First dude in SFK is easier as disc imo. Drop barrier when he goes dark archangel form and it's just ezmode to the finish. Either spec is fine before that as you don't need to heal people up much - just enough to not insta die.

    I hate that song I did using LoF pulls to get someone back to interrupt quickly; i.e. stay up on bridge and pull an interrupter (pref tank) up to the boss as soon as the levers are done.

  18. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by saye View Post
    I also don't really understand some of the discipline hate. Perhaps people saw only holy paladins and holy priests on the Sinestra kill and assume disc is worthless or something.
    It's because people couldn't have a one button spec and show meters to be the "best healer ever".

    that said, I just can't find a reason to be disc in raids when holy priests are so strong at AOE healing. HW Sanctuary and Lightwell are amazing. I haven't seen any 25 man content and haven't finished any of the raids on 10 man yet so I'm not too experienced, but Lightwell and HW:S's usefulness always seems to trump absorbs.
    Sanctuary's usefulness is pretty limited, and only short bursts. Everytime you want to use Sanctuary, Barrier would have trumped it 10 times over so far as usefulness goes.

    Divine Aegis is applied instantly, unlike Echo of Light over time, so that takes an edge off a hit (important on Feud for heroic Chimaeron). Penance will again be hacks. On demand haste buffs and 29k buffer zones. Barrier, Pain Suppression, Power Infusion.

    The spec has a lot going for it. People just look at numbers and go "omg u cant bring one" when Barrier is still the single greatest cooldown in this game, and it's not a sub-par healer.
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  19. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by Chob View Post
    I'm purely speaking from 10man point of view, sorry I should probably have clarified that. I agree that having at least 1, possibly even 2 disc priests in 25m would largely trivialize the fight.

    For 10m I use lightwell every other Feud, which has nearly the same effect as power:word barrier due to it's insane healing, so it is debatable whether discipline is more useful or not, personally I prefer going with holy for that fight.
    Lightwell is on a longer cooldown than PW:B though, so I would still prefer Disc. And Disc not only reduces the damage by 30% but also increases everyone's healing by 10%. that's a lot more than 15 biggish heals

    Edit: This was in the context of Chimaeron Feud phases, for those who didn't read the previous posts.
    Last edited by DomBomb1; 2011-02-06 at 12:15 AM.

  20. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by DomBomb1 View Post
    Lightwell is on a longer cooldown than PW:B though, so I would still prefer Disc. And Disc not only reduces the damage by 30% but also increases everyone's healing by 10%. that's a lot more than 15 biggish heals
    It's really situational. Lightwell is much stronger when people are spread out, or can't remain in one spot to benefit from the duration of PW:B. PW:B is much stronger when the incoming damage is close to or more than the amount the healers can reactively deal with. And for clarity of those who might not know otherwise, PW:B only increases healing taken for those standing beneath it if the priest is glyphed for it.

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