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  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Thoraic View Post
    I really do not believe that we still have players that think that the efficiency of a healing class is measured by the healing per second on Recount.

    The efficiency of any healing class is measured by the success of a raid/party doing a challenge (considering that the tanks and dps are doing their jobs). FORGET THE METERS!!!!
    Meters mean a lot, actually. There is a large amount of unavoidable damage in the game, and if everyone was running a sub-par healing spec, it would be near impossible to heal through this damage.

    Hypothetical situation: a raid, on average, takes 40k damage per second. On this fight, skilled holy priests, holy pallies, and restro druids will be doing 14k heals/sec, while a skilled disc priest or shaman healer will only do 10.5k heals/second.
    If you group the holy priest, holy pally, and resto druid together, they have a total of 42k heals/sec. You kill the boss fine.
    If you group two resto shamans and a disc priest together, you have 31.5k heals/sec. You wipe.

    There is a reason why Paragon and such stack holy priests and paladins.

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Tlacotl View Post
    Disc is about nerfing your potential healing by about 30% compared to an equivalently geared holy priest, its also about crappy shields, lack of mobility and lack of flexibility.

    I made my preist to be disc, but I cant justify playing disc over holy, its just a broken spec right now.
    The shields weren't crappy in WotLK... lol. They were amazing. but yes, Disc gets its buff in 4.0.6. So all Disc priests hold on, we will get our buff!

    Personally, I'm tired of people asking me to go Holy in pugs. (If a Disc priest outheals a druid, not counting Absorbs, then the druid needs more healing done! :P)

  3. #23
    Ehh, Disc is fine, just not as powerful as other healing specs. I sure have a hell of a fun time spamming smite in 5mans too :P The only thing it lacks is AoE heals, PoH spam just doesn't cut it because of the high mana cost.
    Quote Originally Posted by Precursor View Post
    "Fall of therzane....." ....um what? if that woman fell , god help us it will be the second cataclysm
    Words that lots of people don't seem to know the definition of:
    "Troll", "Rehash", "Casual", "Dead", "Dying", "Exploit".

  4. #24
    People need to give up on their preconceptions from Wrath. Disc is fine now because it is up to par. It was fine then because of encounter design.

    As far as ease of use? Yes, Discipline is easier to gear for and easier to understand. There is some nuance there, but there's much less spell juggling. Holy is slightly stronger right now, but not by too much. It is much more complicated though, so as far as easier? Yes, Disc is easier.
    Last edited by harky; 2011-02-03 at 11:55 PM.

  5. #25
    Correct me if I'm wrong, but as far as I've noticed, Recount does in fact show absorbs in the meter- not only in the regular healing meter (not heals per second) but also absorbed damage has its own meter (where you can also see pally absorbs and the like). If this is in question I'll screen shot it.

    More on subject, I have both a disc and a holy spec for our ten man and switch between it as needed in fights. Holy has a lot more group throughput where as disc brings a lot more to fights like Maloriak, during his red vial phase, its amazing to have the PW: Bar and then the bubbling healing is sufficient to keep the add tank alive while keeping the weakened soul debuff on the main tank as well. In that particular fight I am usually (with absorbs included) outhealing the resto druid and rather well geared pally according to the meters.

    The short of it is, both specs are viable but it is heavily dependent on what situations call for- sometimes you need the AoE from Holy, some times the sheer damage mitigation from discipline is better.

  6. #26
    High Overlord EllipsisGH's Avatar
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    Disc healing has less situational "what tool do I need for this situation?" heals. It's a pretty simple setup.

    Holy has an overwhelmingly large toolkit and a lot of priests try to use all their tools in the same fight. That's where they go wrong.

    The difference between Disc and Holy is the player being able to identify and use their heals when the situation calls for it. That and training their group to use the damn lightwell.
    Enforce proper spelling and grammar!

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Maelstrom51 View Post
    Meters mean a lot, actually. There is a large amount of unavoidable damage in the game, and if everyone was running a sub-par healing spec, it would be near impossible to heal through this damage.

    Hypothetical situation: a raid, on average, takes 40k damage per second. On this fight, skilled holy priests, holy pallies, and restro druids will be doing 14k heals/sec, while a skilled disc priest or shaman healer will only do 10.5k heals/second.
    If you group the holy priest, holy pally, and resto druid together, they have a total of 42k heals/sec. You kill the boss fine.
    If you group two resto shamans and a disc priest together, you have 31.5k heals/sec. You wipe.

    There is a reason why Paragon and such stack holy priests and paladins.
    On fights with high predictable AOE damage (and Halfus heroic) disc priests are invaluable, check the priests on said guilds (and Methods) kills on Nefarian for example.
    The barrier soaks 30% of crackle damage, letting them burn the boss faster, and mana to last longer.

  8. #28
    Fluffy Kitten Ultima's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by [-Spiritus-] View Post
    bubbles, duh. L2P.
    This explains a lot.
    I heal in the Arena
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  9. #29
    Mechagnome PhilCosby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maelstrom51 View Post
    There is a reason why Paragon and such stack holy priests and paladins.
    You should watch the Paragon Nefarian kill video.

    It's not about stacking. It's about doing what is required for a kill.
    I used to like WoW. I still do, but I used to, too.
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    Terms such as "baddie" do nothing to help remove the socially-inept, tone-deaf loser stigma stuck on gamers.
    Quote Originally Posted by Playintrafic View Post
    Does it matter? PvP matters as much as pet battles.

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by harky View Post
    Discipline is easier to gear for.
    How is this? Do holy priest use tighter pants or what? Just reading this forum pretty soon gives you the idea that not even good priests like you and Spiritus can agree on how to gear as discipline whereas holy is pretty straightforward. And tbh the difference is quite minimal anyway. Crit or haste, mastery or haste. crit or mastery? I think you and I may have different opinions on what easy means in this case.

  11. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by Bigslick View Post
    That being said, to those who would argue that those points aside disc is still weaker overall than holy, I find that on those nights when I run as discipline in counterpoint to another priest similarly geared and running holy, there will be many fights where I will still appear higher on the meter as disc. Disc priests don't risk being underproductive by spamming shields anymore (well, actually they can to a degree), but still risk it by tunnel-visioning their heals and not making the effort to constantly go to the optimal heal-of-the-moment to counter between raid and tank damage. Disc is far from broken, and personally while I welcome the incoming buffs and appreciate that they 'feel' right in line with the nature of the spec, I'm concerned that it may be a little too much and draw repercussions in the form of a followup nerf, which Blizzard historically tends to overdo in compensation.
    /\ This... I fully expect disc to be nerfed after these buffs too. Most likely further increasing the mana cost of pennance and pw: s.

  12. #32
    Disc is pretty nerfed right now, holy is in much better shape. Not sure why you feel the opposite.
    WoW having more subs than SWTOR is the same thing as Justin Bieber having more youtube plays than Tupac. Just because its more popular doesn't mean its good.

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  13. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by iceberg265 View Post
    Disc is pretty nerfed right now, holy is in much better shape. Not sure why you feel the opposite.
    Holy is pretty nerfed right now, disc is in much better shape. Not sure why you feel the opposite.

    Seriously, though, Disc is FINE. Between, rapture, replenishment, and 15% more intellect, I rarely have mana problems, and there's nothing quite like a 40k greater heal + 15k Divine Aegis to stabilize a tank. PW:B, Pain Suppression, and Power Infusion are some POWERFUL cooldowns, and are almost required for some fights (Halfus, Chimaeron, Maloriak, to name a few). Stacking Power Infusion with Divine Hymn or Hymn of Hope is definitely awesome. Attonement is downright overpowered for Halfus and really nice for Magmaw and Conclave (Anshal). Frankly, I wouldn't run a 25-man raid WITHOUT a Disc priest, but I see no particular reason one would HAVE to have a holy priest. Honestly, the only fight I would prefer a holy priest over a disc priest is atramedes, and that has NOTHING to do with HPS and everything to do with body and soul.

  14. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by Blakkeyez View Post
    How is this? Do holy priest use tighter pants or what? Just reading this forum pretty soon gives you the idea that not even good priests like you and Spiritus can agree on how to gear as discipline whereas holy is pretty straightforward. And tbh the difference is quite minimal anyway. Crit or haste, mastery or haste. crit or mastery? I think you and I may have different opinions on what easy means in this case.
    That isn't the issue. The issue is that the Spirit requirements for the spec are much lower. This allows for a wider variety of gear regardless of how you decide to gear up. If you want more Crit/Mastery it's fairly easy to go that route. If you want more Haste it's easy to go that route. The defining rule for how to gear Disc is exceedingly simple: Get as much Int as you can. If you do this anything else you're doing is probably fine. You do need some Spirit, but you could most likely get the minimum you need for raiding content with no Spirit gear and simply reforging to Spirit. Ease of gearing is not about picking the proper stats at all. It's about the availability of gear. When you have 3-4 items to pick from instead of a single item it's much easier to gear up.

  15. #35
    I CAN NOT disc heal 5 mans, although my gear is better now, i could not do it at all at the beginning. when ur crit is at ~14-15%, and divine aegis is a HUGE part of ur shielding, you cant do much. its great when you dont have to switch targets to heal, but thats never the case
    Last edited by JDPickle; 2011-02-04 at 07:29 AM.

  16. #36
    Field Marshal avestren's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rocap View Post
    Who heals one target? In all honesty I cant begin to think that anyone would be serious when they say that.
    I get the idea behind it, but its just not going through my brain the same way. Even holy paladins are raid healing more than disc, and tank healing even more in the same exact fight. No matter how you run your healing rotation it just can not compete at the moment.
    Disc is extremely broken right now, they are buffing it a little in the incoming patch just to justify that.
    Right now in a raid all I get is shield tank just to get rapture/BT because the shield is doing NOTHING, and spam POH/GH.
    My regen usually holds up well enough for me to do this (being smart, not actually spamming).
    That just sounds like a less mana efficient, less throughput, less fun holy priest 3.0.
    I guess it depends on what you consider easier. Easier to to master (CDs, using appropriate spells, etc.) or easier to get results. I am far more fond of Discipline and play it better (in my honest opinion) but on many raid heal fights, it's just flat-out better to go Holy (in my experience). I'm honestly not that great at Holy so far, but there's just so much more oomph behind my heals and answers to raid damage problems.

    Although I think I can usually get the job done, my raid seems to feel it safer to stick with Holy.

    Bottom line: Discipline could use some talent support to give us a larger array of spells to use (Holy doesn't have to be the only spec with multiple ways to deal with a situation). I think altering current talents to include Renew, ProM, and Holy Nova could lead to some great results.

    Renew always proccing DA? That might be cool.
    ProM getting stronger after each bounce (100%>110%>...>140% or something like that). That also might be cool.
    Add a talent to increase the healing of Holy Nova significantly, but creating a CD?
    There is no gene for the human spirit. ~GATTACA

  17. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by harky View Post
    Ease of gearing is not about picking the proper stats at all. It's about the availability of gear. When you have 3-4 items to pick from instead of a single item it's much easier to gear up.
    Well, I can agree to that to a certain extent. However this is still a very peripheral, almost silly argument to what spec is easier to play.

  18. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by avestren View Post
    Renew always proccing DA? That might be cool.
    ProM getting stronger after each bounce (100%>110%>...>140% or something like that). That also might be cool.
    Add a talent to increase the healing of Holy Nova significantly, but creating a CD?
    I thought of a talent that would be nice for renew(or maybe a new HoT). I'm not good with naming something along the lines of resilient/tenacious renew: when targets of your renew spell take damage your renew hits for 10% more(per dmg source), stacking to 50% extra bonus healing. It'd be nice to throw it on a tank or someone taking heavy dmg, so we can switch targets to heal something else. maybe 7% stacking to 35%
    Last edited by JDPickle; 2011-02-04 at 08:34 AM.

  19. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by JDPickle View Post
    I CAN NOT disc heal 5 mans, although my gear is better now, i could not do it at all at the beginning. when ur crit is at ~14-15%, and divine aegis is a HUGE part of ur shielding, you cant do much. its great when you dont have to switch targets to heal, but thats never the case
    In 5-mans you can try a few other ways to make your mana stretch farther. For example, you can keep Ghealing that tank to keep your Grace stack up, and if you need to hit another party member, try to use Prayer of Healing or Binding Heal, neither of which will break Grace on the tank. And if you get that emergency NEED to heal, you can throw a gheal on that player and then penance your tank to get Grace back up. Of course it is easy to combine that with PW:S and/or Prayer of Mending.

    In fact, I've been weaving Binding Heal into my rotation quite a bit as Disc currently, because it costs no more than flash heal, does not break grace on the tank, and does not heal for significantly less than flash heal on your target. I have no mana problems in 5-mans, so that probably isn't effective for EVERYBODY, but it does give me a very "safe" way to heal non-tank party members.

    Of course, Grace-wise, the next patch will completely fix that, and I'll sadly have a hard time remembering Binding Heal again, even though it's always useful when you don't forget about it.

  20. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by shifta View Post
    Disc is amazing right now. It's sad that most people don't fully understand the spec.
    yep sad but true

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