1. #1

    Unhappy really confused on dk DW frost stats PLZ HELP

    ok so i recently was tld my dps was "bad" and ive never gotten a complaint before, but i went ahead and tried to mess with my gems, enchants, and reforging.
    I was doin around 12k-14k dps on heroic bosses.
    I was gemmed all towards hit and my hit was at like 15% but apparrently everyone thinks that you only need 8% hit, so i tried goin to 8% hit, my expertise has always been around 21-26 and my other stats im not to sure on.
    But when i went all strength gems and enchants and reforged all for 8%hit and 26% exp with the Mastery is better than crit and crit is better than haste my dps on raid training dummies went down from 12-13k to 9k.
    Here is my toon currently, plz help idk why ppl talk about gemmin str when it didnt help me...
    Plus i also read ppl tlkin bout haste caps, what is the recommended haste and what presence shld i be in frost or unholy, cuz whenever im in frost my runes take way too long to cd and i cant atk for some periods of time, im just sittin there auto atkin cuz all m runes ae on cd and i dumped my rp wth frost strike...

  2. #2
    Herald of the Titans Avatar Killer's Avatar
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    Your testing boss vs dummy. Group vs solo. 8% hit with 26 exp stacking mastery over crit forging off haste you will net the most damage. Always gem only str unless the bonus is >= 20
    Last edited by Avatar Killer; 2011-02-03 at 11:15 PM.
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  3. #3
    Doesn't make sense. Gemming for the hard hit-cap is unreasonable, because of the gigantic amount of hit u actually need to get to it.
    If ur saying ur DPS went down after gemming straight strength and straightened out or hit and expertise, then u must be doing something wrong, cuz it can only improve it. Either ur leaving out part of the story, orrrrrr idk

  4. #4
    Blademaster
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    The reason why you are getting starved on runes, has to be because you are not utilizing your abilities correctly.

    For instance you should always rime before obliterate unless you have a killing machine proc. The reason is that if you just spam obliterate and empty your runes. You will not have enough rune power to regain the lost runes all the time. Since Frost strirkes have a chance of refreshing empty runes. And if you are also forgetting to HoW when you don't have anything to do. You are loosing out on valuable rune power. This rune power is the gab that you are missing to always having something to push and therefore not needing haste.

    If you follow this rotation:

    Diseases > Ob if both Frost/Unholy pairs and/or both Death runes are up, or if KM is procced >
    BS if both Blood Runes are up > FS if RP capped > Rime > Ob > BS > FS > HoW.

    You should almost never be completely starved.

    You can read more on http://elitistjerks.com/f72/t110296-...3_nothing_lose

  5. #5
    Grunt
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    getting complaints about "only" doin 12-13k in heroics is ridiculous...

    most dps doesn't do that.

    so just ignore that kind of complaints, but nevertheless you should try to optimize your dps, obviously...

  6. #6
    Who told ya you did bad dps and what were they running? Was it bad as in terrible or bad as in Michael Jackson?

    At Ilvl 348 I'm running 12K to 16K on heroic boss fights peaking at 21k for a short time, variance in group makeup and fight apply. Only classes that have given me a run were enh shaman and hunters but I finish ahead on damage done. Recently started to pay attention to KM more and tried to "save" oblit for them, definite dps increase but don't let the runes rot on your bar.

    Some data points for you:
    On boss dummies I run 11k to 13k but run ~16k-17k on Magmaw.
    Gemmed all strength cept for 2 oranges for the mastery meta.
    Str>Hit/Exp>Mastery>Crit>Haste
    8% hit, 26 expertise
    Lead off with HoW>BT+PoF+Ghoul+trinket(macro)>Outbreak>... Rime>Diseases>KM+Oblit>FS+RPcap>Oblit>BS>FS>...
    I'm not an elitist jerk so if something here doesn't fit the cookie cutter please disregard -or- advise.

    GL
    Blood~

  7. #7
    The elitist jerks is pretty good, let me simplify it for you
    Your primary stat concerns are, obviously, strength hit and expertise. After you reach the SPECIAL hit cap of 8% (5% plus talent) any extra hit is just a bonus. You are theoretically going to always have an ability to use so the white hits are a bonus in addition to your special attacks. Of course, you could get unlucky with Runic Empowerment, but rarely

    DW frost DKs LOVE mastery. You want as much mastery as you can get, without gemming for it unless the socket bonus is good. After this, you want crit. Haste is also good, but crit actually has a better stat weight. If you were playing 2h frost, you would want haste, but DW utilizes crit better.
    Your priority *NOT A ROTATION, don't listen to people who tell you there is one* looks like this:
    Diseases (Open with Outbreak)
    Obliterate if you have enough runes to do TWO of them
    Blood Strike if you have enough runes to do TWO of them
    Killing Machine Oblit
    Rime if it is procced
    Frost Strike if you have 90 RP or more, so that you do not waste any
    Obliterate
    Blood Strike
    Horn of Winter

    A good opening set would look like this: Outbreak->Obliterate->Blood Strike->Bloodtap+Pillar of Frost->Rime if proc is up->Oblit->Frost strike because you are probably at 90 or more->Blood Strike. From here, you have to go with whatever RunicEmp. procs you get.

    Some people might say to open with blood tap/ pillar, I personally feel this is a preference because you will lose a rune for blood strike if you open with it. Whatever you think works better, go for it.
    Also, you ALWAYS want to save your ghoul until after this first set because if you open with ghoul, you are losing out on potential trinket procs or bloodlust that will increase your ghouls dps by a decent amount. The ghoul takes a picture of your stats WHEN IT IS CAST, so you want to get as many procs up as you can, and this is usually after your opening set of attacks.

    I am sure some people will disagree with me, but I have been playing frost since WotLK came out, one of the few original frost DKs on my server when blood was the FOTM spec followed by unholy. I know what I am talking about but the beautiful thing is that you can do so much now based on your personal preference and what makes it easiest for you, now that there is no set rotation. I pull about 15k per boss in heroic without AOE, and my gear isnt even that amazing. My overall ilvl is 354 but my dps gear is only about 352 or 353 so I am still mostly in heroic blues. Feel free to PM me or whisper me in game if you want any other tips, I have good knowledge of every DK spec and I really like helping people improve their dps, it really is much more fun when you notice yourself getting better.
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  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Bloodgruve View Post
    Who told ya you did bad dps and what were they running? Was it bad as in terrible or bad as in Michael Jackson?

    At Ilvl 348 I'm running 12K to 16K on heroic boss fights peaking at 21k for a short time, variance in group makeup and fight apply. Only classes that have given me a run were enh shaman and hunters but I finish ahead on damage done. Recently started to pay attention to KM more and tried to "save" oblit for them, definite dps increase but don't let the runes rot on your bar.

    Some data points for you:
    On boss dummies I run 11k to 13k but run ~16k-17k on Magmaw.
    Gemmed all strength cept for 2 oranges for the mastery meta.
    Str>Hit/Exp>Mastery>Crit>Haste
    8% hit, 26 expertise
    Lead off with HoW>BT+PoF+Ghoul+trinket(macro)>Outbreak>... Rime>Diseases>KM+Oblit>FS+RPcap>Oblit>BS>FS>...
    I'm not an elitist jerk so if something here doesn't fit the cookie cutter please disregard -or- advise.

    GL
    Blood~
    What boss fights are you running at 12-16k on and peaking at 21 with ilvl 348?
    And what are you using to track that dps?

    I think you'd need a lot of adds to get there, and there just aren't many heroic boss fights with adds. The only one I could realistically see ilvl 348 frost dk doing mid to upper teens on in ilvl 348 would be first boss in brc.

    To put it another way. 16.5k will get you ranked on Arg (a tank-n-spank) on WoL as frost. The person in 200th place is sitting at ilvl357 and is 11/12 in T11 normal.

    To put it yet another way, I'm at ilvl 356, have no problem in T11 raids, and in heroics I generally do about 15-16k on the instances as whole (obviously varies some depending on the heroic like GB will always be lower ), and 13-19k on most bosses because of the variations of the fight. And I might not be great, but I don't suck either. So your numbers seem a little high to me. The hit/exp/resist aren't enough to make up that dmg.

    With 2 346 weapons and heroic/rep gear I'd expect a frost DK to sit between 10-13 overall dmg in a heroic and go between 9-14kish on most boss fights. Some fights just suck for melee, some are a little easier.

    ---------- Post added 2011-02-04 at 01:05 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Devinrod26 View Post
    Plus i also read ppl tlkin bout haste caps, what is the recommended haste and what presence shld i be in frost or unholy, cuz whenever im in frost my runes take way too long to cd and i cant atk for some periods of time, im just sittin there auto atkin cuz all m runes ae on cd and i dumped my rp wth frost strike...
    Two things on this one.
    One, you shouldn't really be sitting waiting on cool downs too much. That means you're hitting abilities you don't need. Frost is about "patience" in many ways. You don't blow your runes just because it's up. Your goal is to OB as much as possible so turn blood into death runes, FS to get runes back, use free HB's.

    That said, haste is a great frost stat till it hits against the GCD cap. Consider's comments and weights are for T11 gear with an assumption you already have enough haste to get there. We don't benefit past the cap by haste at all really. But most people are not even close to the cap on the way to raiding, so they should get some haste. It's better then crit, and about the same as mastery, up to the point where your runes refresh fast enough to hit up against the cap.
    Last edited by liquidrage; 2011-02-04 at 06:47 PM.

  9. #9
    liquid,

    Those numbers come from Recount so take them how you will. The 21k was managed on the first guy in HSFK with a lucky string of KM's during cool downs. I do have to help out on the adds for Magmaw so there is some AoE going on there. I will state that I haven't run much raid content at all in this xpack yet.

    Blood~
    Last edited by Bloodgruve; 2011-02-04 at 09:38 PM.

  10. #10
    im not doing anything wrong ive spent so much money trying out str stackin and im not using abilities i dont need, y dps goes down when i gem str for no reason and goes up when i gem all hit, i have a good rotation i learned from a a friend thats played his dk more than most ppl play their mains and he stacks all hit too, im not gonna spend all my money again to gem str and reforge everything and risk my dps goin back down until i have money to spend so idk im gonna stick with the hit stacked

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