Separate 10/25 Lockouts, same loot

[armpit]

Blizzard does not want to give you the opportunity to get something that someone else doesn't not have time for.

[PeterPan]

If you don't do 10 and 25 every week man you gear up slower since you have less chances to get the drops you need. This will make people feel forced to do both. I really don't want to go back to the wrath model or running the same raids twice every week... wasn't fun.

[Garganchewin]

Activate your account, raid for a few weeks, and then come back to this topic.

The fact that you are sending blizzard this formal letter suggesting how one of this expansion's major game design is flawed, when you don't even have an active account, is a little odd.

Honestly, it kind of bothers me that you are trying to do this. You aren't a member of the raiding community, why do you think you should have any say in the raiding experience that we are all going through right now?

Please play the game first. Blizzard already listens to too much of the unnecessary community forums QQ of active players. We don't need creepy lurkers opinions changing our raiding experience.

Edit: By the way, I love how the lockouts are right now. There is no push to farm each lockout like there was in wrath. It's working as intended.

[cganz]

Haven't read any responses, but I also think the lockouts should be separated.

Right now my guild does 25s, and we're 10/12 Normal mode. It is impossible to split up into a 10 man group later in the week and try and progress through hardmodes, due to the shared lockout. I think this is just stupid. If people want to raid more, they should be able to. If 10 man guilds choose to be 10 man guilds, then they can do 10 mans and be happy with it.

[Hypernetic]

Haven't read any responses, but I also think the lockouts should be separated.

Right now my guild does 25s, and we're 10/12 Normal mode. It is impossible to split up into a 10 man group later in the week and try and progress through hardmodes, due to the shared lockout. I think this is just stupid. If people want to raid more, they should be able to. If 10 man guilds choose to be 10 man guilds, then they can do 10 mans and be happy with it.

lol.. or you could just progress in 25 mans since you are a 25 man guild.

[cganz]

lol.. or you could just progress in 25 mans since you are a 25 man guild.

Or I could do both.

[Handsylton]

Activate your account, raid for a few weeks, and then come back to this topic.

The fact that you are sending blizzard this formal letter suggesting how one of this expansion's major game design is flawed, when you don't even have an active account, is a little odd.

Honestly, it kind of bothers me that you are trying to do this. You aren't a member of the raiding community, why do you think you should have any say in the raiding experience that we are all going through right now?

Please play the game first. Blizzard already listens to too much of the unnecessary community forums QQ of active players. We don't need creepy lurkers opinions changing our raiding experience.

Edit: By the way, I love how the lockouts are right now. There is no push to farm each lockout like there was in wrath. It's working as intended.

Creepy lurker? I'm actually a member of a 10 man guild on US-Mal'Ganis and stopped playing about a week before Cataclysm came out and never renewed my account as I was on winter break. I've always intended on coming back to the game and, as a former diligent member of the community and looking forward to the end game experience of Cataclysm, I want my experience to be the best of what it can be.

That said, I've stated numerous times throughout this thread that I am in no way trying to conform people to my way of thinking, I merely stated my suggestion and asked for feedback on multiple occasions on how people would improve the system as it currently is. I know for a fact that I liked having two lockouts to run, and I'm assuming that if it wasn't for the absurd grindfest that was ToC and 4 lockouts a week, many people wouldn't have been quite as burnt out as they were come the end of Wrath.

Assuming that I don't know is a fallacy, I've seen a numerous amount of extremely varied opinions on these threads, as well as talked to people whom I know in-game and got their take on Cataclysm so far as well. This is not QQ, this is called constructive communication between parties. When someone brings up a valid argument, I give them that point and counter-argue. That's how debates and improvement work. I'm not asking anyone to just flat agree with what I'm saying, I'm trying to construct an environment in the game that suites everyone's wants and needs.

[Focault]

So you would have no problem with only being able to receive loot (gear and points) from each individual boss once per week?

If you pitched it that way to Blizzard you'd have some kind of ground to stand on. Anything else is going to be correctly interpreted as too much of an incentive to raid grind for gear.

But if your motivation for raiding successive lockouts within the same week isn't gear then that shouldn't be an issue.

[Mowg]

That said, I've stated numerous times throughout this thread that I am in no way trying to conform people to my way of thinking, I merely stated my suggestion and asked for feedback on multiple occasions on how people would improve the system as it currently is. I know for a fact that I liked having two lockouts to run, and I'm assuming that if it wasn't for the absurd grindfest that was ToC and 4 lockouts a week, many people wouldn't have been quite as burnt out as they were come the end of Wrath.

Assuming that I don't know is a fallacy, I've seen a numerous amount of extremely varied opinions on these threads, as well as talked to people whom I know in-game and got their take on Cataclysm so far as well. This is not QQ, this is called constructive communication between parties. When someone brings up a valid argument, I give them that point and counter-argue. That's how debates and improvement work. I'm not asking anyone to just flat agree with what I'm saying, I'm trying to construct an environment in the game that suites everyone's wants and needs.

Just to let you know, there are plenty of valid arguments on Page 3 that have currently been left ignored. Also your point about people accusing you of not knowing, the fact that you haven't touched Cataclysm completely explains how:

a) You didn't know loot and ilvl are exactly the same for both 10/25 mans.
b) A VP weekly cap has been implemented so that "badges" cannot be farmed/grinded.

Those two points effectively cover two-thirds of your entire proposal. When people request you to actually play the game before you try to improve it, they're not giving you ill-advice. By playing Cataclysm objectively, and actually experiencing the raiding environment you would've actually known about the shared ilvl and weekly caps and could've created a much more robust proposal. It doesn't matter how many negative opinions you've read on various forums or how much third-hand information you've received, if you don't know the specifics then your arguments/proposal won't have any basis.

If you really want to appease both the majority and the minority, then there's one simple proposal. Separate the lockouts, but you can only receive loot/VP once per boss. That means if you down a boss on 10-man, you will receive loot/VP for that week. If on the same week, for whatever reason you fancy doing the 25-man version, then downing the same boss will not yield any loot or VP. This is the pure definition of choice, which at the same time does not give an edge to certain guilds over others, and there will be 0 incentive to force raiders to do something they don't wish to do. However, I personally think this proposal would never get taken seriously (and I agree wholeheartedly) because only a tiny % of the community would actually ever bother using this mechanic, because the truth is loot is a massive motivating factor, and only the truly mad (or very helpful) would down the same boss even if it yielded no rewards. And as soon as you put an incentive such as loot and give the ability for one person to have an advantage over another (such as your proposal) it no longer becomes a choice. And that was the problem with Wrath model, something you bring up in your proposal.