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  1. #521
    Keyboard Turner Patricia86's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by schippie View Post
    I do think if it turned out to not be working at all since the start of cata its good that this is corrected. On the 10% increase to 15% i think its a good change tbh even if they are not hard anymore they are atleast for me boring taking a really long time to complete. So yeah i agree with this change.
    I agree, I think that PUG groups are ridiculous as far as difficulty. One heroic group can take many hours on certain dungeons such as SFK. It's why I decided to PVP instead.

  2. #522
    Moderator Zoma's Avatar
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    This expansion, all my random heroics have been with guild groups, because of the the horror that is a PuG. I like this change, because now I may be able to get my daily valor on days when my guildmates are offline.

  3. #523
    Keyboard Turner Patricia86's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dch48 View Post
    Excellent change, running Heroics in a pug is a nightmare. This is the best change they've done in a while. On a side note, some of the heroics are poorly designed in that the first boss is harder than the next 2 or 3. Halls of Origination comes to mind for one and Stonecore and Throne of the Tides as well. This is backwards, the difficulty should increase as you go further in, not get easier. The Lost City is the best designed in this regard in my opinion.

    My guild hasn't even started raiding yet because it's taken this long to get people appropriately geared. We also are having problems getting people to even log on and try. If this change would have been in effect from the beginning, we'd have been raiding a few weeks ago.
    The first boss that comes to mind is Beauty...she's almost impossible in Heroic while the last boss is one of the easiest bosses for heroics. The hardest boss should be last with heroics, with the best loot imo, because this would help groups stick together until the dungeon is complete. I get a lot of heroic PUGs falling apart at the end, right before the last boss. It's really nerve-wrecking.

  4. #524
    2 months of their dungeon buff not working and they didn't even know it. Amazing.

  5. #525
    Quote Originally Posted by shadowboxer123 View Post
    Except running with a guild is far easier than running in a pug. So in essence, wouldn't that be trivializing content, since you are choosing the easier way to get your gear and achievements by running with a premade group?
    You are wrong. Running in a premade group is not trivializing the CONTENT. The content is HARDER in guild groups because guild groups do not have the buff. Guild groups and premades are simply more coordinated and better skilled, typically. But guild groups and premades still have to get bosses down without the buff. So running premades for heroics is just the smarter way to go about things.

    Furthermore, you seem to misunderstand. I do not care about the nerfs to heroics. I welcome them. I am merely noting that heroic achievements and gear is fast becoming meaningless. When the content is do-able by almost anyone then it is no longer special or unique in any way when you do it. But this was all inevitable anyway. As the population becomes more geared, and as Blizzard steadily nerfs heroics to the ground, it is no longer impressive when heroics are completed. I really don't care if every wow player in the world can pug a Heroic and aoe their way to glory in 20 minutes anymore. So enjoy your sense of accomplishment. I sincerely hope they nerf heroics to be doable in 10 mins or less so I can spend less time getting my VP.

  6. #526
    Herald of the Titans malletin's Avatar
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    i in all honesty dont get why everyone and their mother is whining about this.. if you are oh so mad about this then dont pug that way you wont get the buff problem solved.. aside from that even with the increase idiots who cant wrap their head around not standing in fire that deals 20k dmg a second will still die period.
    "any man shaving for a woman should relinquish ownership of his testicles aswell"

  7. #527
    Quote Originally Posted by Xenryusho View Post
    Imagine yourself in a room with four other people for a moment, in this room there is a bomb, ticking down slowly and a manual on how to disarm it. You start to read the manual... When all of the sudden one of the other four people starts speaking in a butchered dialect of your language and rams their face directly into the bomb. You all blow up, and when you wake up your in the same room staring at the same bomb once again. The same four idiots ram their head into the bomb. You leave the room only to find yourself in the same exact room with a different four idiots ramming their head into a different bomb. And you repeat this until god decides to make the bombs 15% harder to blow up with your face.

    Would you cry about this too?
    rofl, seriously rofl

    Except that each of the four retards would be doing something totally different and equally stupid. One would be humping the bomb, the second waving their hands and ranting how the "bads" are ruining 'their' group, the third would be off with the fourth running around in circles laughing like Spongebob and Patrick completely oblivious to the inevitable destruction.

    Atleast that's how my PuGs have been lately.

    ---------- Post added 2011-02-06 at 11:31 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Susej View Post
    THESE THINGS DO TRIVIALIZE THE GAME BECAUSE POOR PLAYERS WILL DO "BETTER" ONLY IN THEIR 15% ZONES.

    They will NOT LEARN TO PLAY.

    They will LEARN TO GET CARRIED BY A BUFF.

    Which is TRIVIAL TO EVERY ASPECT OF THE GAME.
    BADS won't EVER learn how to play, you can make an entire quest-line that holds their hands in great detail with arrows pointing stuff out and everything and they still won't figure it out.

    I'm tired of seeing "Oh they will get carried" no shit, it's always been that way.

    BADS are there to add challenge to the game, when it is getting too easy add some BADS to your group.

    For every BAD that you add it is like having -15% overall group performance, if them pros really think their hot s*** let's see them play handicapped by BADS and still do well.

  8. #528
    Quote Originally Posted by Ohforfsake View Post
    It has begun... 2 months of hype and back to wotlk faceroll.. and hasnt even got past the first tier of gear yet.. something is telling me, people will be soloing heroics at the middle of the expansion at this rate.. so much for "TBC difficulty" false advertisement to sell the xpack for competent gamers.. or what was it? a knee-jerk reaction for rift beta success?

    PS: roflol @ Ozruk comment. Yeah.. If you are gonna tune the dungeons for baddies that can't even move their character once in a while to avoid a perfectly predictable and slow cast..
    omfg its a buff for the LFD tool if your so fucking concerned about shit being to fucking easy for your expert fucking ass. Do a run with a guild then you wont get a pug ya fucking elitist fucking moron or the buff so it remains the same faceroll for u anyway cause ur so fucking awesome . L2fucking read ya cock snap shit fuckiin QQ MOAR fuck.

    yes i spell bad who gives a fuck, also no one speaks at all in the game unless on vent its fuckin typeing how many of u elitists are fucking retards?
    sorry massive rage at all the people complaining about the buff its off my chest now.....fucking elitists
    Last edited by Lplatehealer; 2011-02-06 at 11:41 AM.


    Sig made by EIS tyvm

  9. #529
    Quote Originally Posted by Kev111 View Post
    Really Blizz? Cater to the casuals again and ruin Cataclysm. Thanks bros.
    You still have some of the hardest raid encounters ever created for everyone else.

    I think it's a good idea.

  10. #530
    Scarab Lord namelessone's Avatar
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    To be honest, I kinda had some respect for all the "pro" people before this change. I can totally get behind the fact that people might want challenge, and so on. I myself was kinda sick of WotLK Heroic faceroll.
    But this massive outcry over something like this just proves that people that are "good" at this game are just annoying dumb fucks, and I'm glad Blizzard is taking steps to annoy the fuck out of them. It has nothing to do with you wanting challenge, it is all about your elitism and genuine desire to make life harder for other people. A community will be better without you.

  11. #531
    Mechagnome Taiki420's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hellfrog View Post
    Wotlk 2.0 incoming!

    Enough for me, quitting my account, cya!

    LOL Bye, the less people complaining over every minor thing, the better.
    "The Tol'vir people must be really shy considering they don't ever speak to us.." -Zneebor LOL

  12. #532
    The Patient Cynon's Avatar
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    [i]"In the process of working on this change we actually discovered that the Luck of the Draw buff has not been working in Cataclysm at all, save for a few specific dungeons. This means that the difficulty in almost all normal and Heroic dungeons for those using the Dungeon Finder tool was higher than expected."[/i}

    Taken from the first blue post. This is one of the reasons I've taken a self-imposed hiatus away from WoW. It could just be a false perception, but it really seems like the developers just really dont give two sh**s about players anymore. Not paying attention to complaints and just "letting it ride", continued bugs in the game and not doing anything about it, just keep paying your fifteen bucks a month, etc.....Just my opinion, I could be wrong.

    That being said, I'm really enjoying the RIFT Beta Test!!!

  13. #533
    Quote Originally Posted by Cynon View Post
    It could just be a false perception, but it really seems like the developers just really dont give two sh**s about players anymore. Not paying attention to complaints and just "letting it ride", continued bugs in the game and not doing anything about it, just keep paying your fifteen bucks a month, etc.....Just my opinion, I could be wrong.
    They are very much aware of the problem, and for all the whining of the people who are either in extremely well-coordinated guild groups or have geared up in raiding and forget what heroics were like in an avg ilvl of 330 or so, Blizzard has been really clear about the fact that they're continuing to look at the heroic balance.

    HOWEVER, the problem that Blizzard has is that this is a massive game. Making changes is like turning an aircraft carrier. They may well have found that the buff didn't work a week or two ago, but actually fixing it is hard. You don't just have some guy go live-patch the running servers without taking a huge risk that your paying customers won't be able to play.

    Instead you make some changes, test them, run them through QA, maybe make more changes and repeat. THEN you release. If it takes a month, it takes a month.

    The only measure of urgency that Blizzard has that really makes a difference is the player base. If there are 200,000 fewer players now than when Cata was released, that's something they're going to pay attention to. Otherwise, they're going to release in a careful and controlled way, BECAUSE they give a sh*t.
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  14. #534
    Mechagnome Taiki420's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deepone View Post
    They are very much aware of the problem, and for all the whining of the people who are either in extremely well-coordinated guild groups or have geared up in raiding and forget what heroics were like in an avg ilvl of 330 or so, Blizzard has been really clear about the fact that they're continuing to look at the heroic balance.

    HOWEVER, the problem that Blizzard has is that this is a massive game. Making changes is like turning an aircraft carrier. They may well have found that the buff didn't work a week or two ago, but actually fixing it is hard. You don't just have some guy go live-patch the running servers without taking a huge risk that your paying customers won't be able to play.

    Instead you make some changes, test them, run them through QA, maybe make more changes and repeat. THEN you release. If it takes a month, it takes a month.

    The only measure of urgency that Blizzard has that really makes a difference is the player base. If there are 200,000 fewer players now than when Cata was released, that's something they're going to pay attention to. Otherwise, they're going to release in a careful and controlled way, BECAUSE they give a sh*t.

    Very well said. Hard to imagine where people get such irrational conclusions..

    As for Rift.. I hope they understood the QQ storm they were getting into when they advertised against wow.. as most of the biggest complainers seem to be trying to funnel like-minded's that way.
    "The Tol'vir people must be really shy considering they don't ever speak to us.." -Zneebor LOL

  15. #535
    Quote Originally Posted by Crofford View Post
    You are wrong. Running in a premade group is not trivializing the CONTENT. The content is HARDER in guild groups because guild groups do not have the buff. Guild groups and premades are simply more coordinated and better skilled, typically. But guild groups and premades still have to get bosses down without the buff. So running premades for heroics is just the smarter way to go about things.

    Furthermore, you seem to misunderstand. I do not care about the nerfs to heroics. I welcome them. I am merely noting that heroic achievements and gear is fast becoming meaningless. When the content is do-able by almost anyone then it is no longer special or unique in any way when you do it. But this was all inevitable anyway. As the population becomes more geared, and as Blizzard steadily nerfs heroics to the ground, it is no longer impressive when heroics are completed. I really don't care if every wow player in the world can pug a Heroic and aoe their way to glory in 20 minutes anymore. So enjoy your sense of accomplishment. I sincerely hope they nerf heroics to be doable in 10 mins or less so I can spend less time getting my VP.
    Wait. Even with this buff, it will still be easier to run with a guild or group of friends. You are right, it is the smarter way to go. But it is still also the easier way to go.

    Why? Because of the coordination and communication that you get from a premade group, same as what Ghostcrawler said. When was the last time you saw a PUG all decide to use vent? Not very often I would guess.

    There are advantages to running in a premade group that a PUG doesn't have. This buff helps to make up for that.

    Some groups still won't be able to complete heroics even with this buff. It will still be more difficult to complete a heroic through a pug with this buff than it would be through a premade group.

    So once again, I have run with pugs and with my guild, and running with the premade is just easier. No way around it. I have completed more heroics in premade groups than in a pug. But this "buff" helps to alleviate the frustration of pugs, but by no means makes it EZ mode.

    I think it is a great idea.
    Last edited by shadowboxer123; 2011-02-06 at 05:54 PM.

  16. #536
    but.. but.. after this change people will stop standing around in town and maybe more than 10% of the players will do heroics, that can't be right. Only elitist players like me should be able to do heroics cuz we are the more important minority.

  17. #537
    High Overlord TurdChef's Avatar
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    <Cough>Bullshit</Cough>

    A very clever excuse for making heroics easier

    ---------- Post added 2011-02-06 at 09:41 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Deepone View Post
    1) "destroying". Hyperbole. Look it up.

    2) This has exactly 0 to do with content. In fact, this is about NOT nerfing content.

    Essentially what's being said is, "lots of you are complaining that the *content* is too hard. We disagree. We think that the content is well tuned for a well-coordinated group that has time to learn each other's strengths and weaknesses and work together. On the other hand, we think that groups that don't have that advantage are, obviously,. at a disadvantage. We're going to level *that* playing field, but you're still going to have to deal with the content as it is."

    If the community wigs out at every buff (oxymoronically calling them "nerfs") we're never going to be able to have a sane conversation about what kind of tuning is needed where. Stop and think about the changes being made and who they will actually affect, rather than just raging over every buff.[COLOR="red"]
    This is probably the most intelligent post I've read on the matter. And Ghostcrawler's fix is a genius fix - the main problem with heroics has been grouping up with less experienced/skilled/whatever-you-want-to-call-it players than yourself (particularly for CC) and wiping 10 times, not guild runs where people are prepared, mostly, to wipe.

    But only 15% ? That's only a couple of extra hits worth of health - around 20,000 health.

  18. #538
    I collected full i346 heroics and pugged 95% of the runs. Were there ones that failed horribly, yes. There we also runs that went very well. If people use pugs as an excuse to be terrible or act like cretins, it's their fault not the content's. Dumbing down the content in response to terrible players is a fail idea from the start.

  19. #539
    Quote Originally Posted by Kev111 View Post
    Really Blizz? Cater to the casuals again and ruin Cataclysm. Thanks bros.
    How about you go and FACK yourself eh?

  20. #540
    Another easy, lack of thought decision by blizzard. I've run heroics with guild members and pugs and they are equally annoying. Whats the difference between a 5 man of guildies and a 5 man of dungeon finder people? nothing. my guild is full of people who arnt that good. this change doesnt make any sense and only encourages not having guild groups

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