1. #1
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    Looking for help with stat prioritys as a ret paladin

    Hi all i just got my paladin to 85 and wondering what stats i should be going for i.e haste/crit/matery...any help would be appreciated

    Thanks in advance

  2. #2
    I think you had it right in your question...str>haste>crit>mastery. Last i checked it was looking this way.

  3. #3
    Bloodsail Admiral Vapo's Avatar
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    str >hit/exp>crit>haste...mastery.

    http://elitistjerks.com/f76/t110342-...rdance_4_0_3a/ for further info if needed.

  4. #4
    As Vapo posted, that is the way to go. Be sure to be hit and expertise capped based on what kind of content you will be experiencing. They will be very important, especially if raiding.

  5. #5
    Epic! Fredzilla's Avatar
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    As of now crit and haste are close enough that neither is clearly better than the other. Matter of personal preference, I suppose, for now.
    "You little hoochees!" - Daos, Lord of Terror

    Quote Originally Posted by PraisetheSun View Post
    "NEENER-NEENER RETS ARE WIENERS."

  6. #6
    Come Tuesday it will be Str>hit/exp to cap>mastery>haste/crit

  7. #7
    Deleted
    Current Live stat weights
    Strength 1
    Hit 0.30
    Expertise 0.19
    Crit 0.14
    Haste 0.13
    Mastery 0.09

    Quicknotes: Strength trumps everything, cap your hit and expertise, stay away from mastery, crit is slightly better or (equal to) haste.

    Latest 4.0.6 Stat weights (going live next week)
    Strength 1
    Hit 0.75
    Expertise 0.58
    Mastery 0.43
    Crit 0.40
    Haste 0.29

    Quicknotes: Strength trumps everything, cap your hit and expertise, reforge into mastery as much as you can, get crit where you can't. Avoid haste.

  8. #8
    I believe admin Hitsurugi isn't paying attention... M8 you closed a thread relevant to arena. The author wonted to know what stats r most important for ret in arena in 406...

    In this thread however no one is mentioning arena. The author in this thread is asking for stats after he dinged and doesn't even ask for pvp or pve. He only asks in general. In my opinion there is a big difference.

    Back on topic: hit(until cap)?>exp(until cap)?>str all the way>crit, mastery>haste ---- stats 406. I believe that hit and expertise still needs to be capped in order for this table to work:

    Latest 4.0.6 Stat weights (going live next week)
    Strength 1
    Hit 0.75
    Expertise 0.58
    Mastery 0.43
    Crit 0.40
    Haste 0.29

    ofc, i may be wrong.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mew View Post
    Current Live stat weights
    Quicknotes: Strength trumps everything, cap your hit and expertise, reforge into mastery as much as you can, get crit where you can't. Avoid haste.
    Don't avoid haste just reforge it into crit or mastery. Anyways you can reforge only 40 %. You still need to have some balance around those 3 stats, but in general haste is sub par to crit and mastery which r equal (arguably mastery is better but that still remains to be proven).

    What you need to pay attention to is never gem anything besides str (or str/any gem if the socket bonus is 20+ str). reforge all haste into hit, get glyph of SoT... about socketing and enchanting you have several nice guides. Go check them out cuz they will give you the best advice. Start with Elitis jerks.

  9. #9
    The Lightbringer Requital's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crothor View Post
    I believe admin Hitsurugi isn't paying attention... M8 you closed a thread relevant to arena. The author wonted to know what stats r most important for ret in arena in 406...

    In this thread however no one is mentioning arena. The author in this thread is asking for stats after he dinged and doesn't even ask for pvp or pve. He only asks in general. In my opinion there is a big difference.

    Back on topic: hit(until cap)?>exp(until cap)?>str all the way>crit, mastery>haste ---- stats 406. I believe that hit and expertise still needs to be capped in order for this table to work:

    Latest 4.0.6 Stat weights (going live next week)
    Strength 1
    Hit 0.75
    Expertise 0.58
    Mastery 0.43
    Crit 0.40
    Haste 0.29

    ofc, i may be wrong.



    Don't avoid haste just reforge it into crit or mastery. Anyways you can reforge only 40 %. You still need to have some balance around those 3 stats, but in general haste is sub par to crit and mastery which r equal (arguably mastery is better but that still remains to be proven).

    What you need to pay attention to is never gem anything besides str (or str/any gem if the socket bonus is 20+ str). reforge all haste into hit, get glyph of SoT... about socketing and enchanting you have several nice guides. Go check them out cuz they will give you the best advice. Start with Elitis jerks.
    There is no real difference between PvE and PvP for weights once 4.0.6 hits, Currently on live these are the values you need to follow.

    PvP Stat Weights
    Str -> AP -> Mastery -> Crit -> Haste

    PvE Stat Weights
    Str -> AP -> Crit/Haste -> Mastery

    However after 4.0.6 you will follow the same set.

    PvP/PvE - Str -> AP -> Mastery -> Crit -> Haste

    AP is mainly used for Enchants and nothing else.

    Here are the things you need to make sure to follow for PvP and PvE as well.

    PvE Hit Cap: 961 / 8%
    PvE Expertise Cap: 781 / 26 / 6.5%
    PvP Hit Cap: 601 / 5%
    PvP Expertise Cap: 601 / 20 / 5%

    A few things to note Haste turns into nearly trash compared to everything so yes avoid it reforge it away it's crap don't use it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Boubouille View Post
    Can you imagine if someone insulted you in a thread, you reported it, and I told you "sorry, wrong thread to be butthurt"?

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Requital View Post
    A few things to note Haste turns into nearly trash compared to everything so yes avoid it reforge it away it's crap don't use it.
    well, if you say so...

    but basically what i wonted to say in my previous post is that one should not run like mad from an item with haste on it just because it has haste. Simple example is: epic item with haste and heroic dungeon item with crit on it... i bet epic will give more str in most cases so all in all one would benefit from it. you can always reforge 40% into what ever you need most (prolly hit and exp).

    anyways, what r current diminishing returns on crit, mastery if any? will there be any? if yes, why would you stack something if it doesn't give the same benefit as second best or third best stat?

    someone said that crit and haste r on par of each other in value of 92 while haste is set at 90. that is small difference if it is true, but that remains to be tested and seen.

    what I'm saying is, do not be closed minded, always leave some room for a bit of experimentation and very possibly improvement.

    -------------------------------------------------------

    oh yeah, forgot... regarding PvP stat weights

    since ressi is changed into mitigating some amount of damage instead of lowering crit chance dose it affect all damage? magical, and melee? if so, why is everyone looking so optimistic at 406 changes to mastery? damage is still damage no mater if it's holy or any other kind.
    Last edited by Crothor; 2011-02-05 at 06:04 PM.

  11. #11
    Well of course you don't give up an epic with haste just because it has haste. As req said, str>everything and its mother. Redcapes old values had crit/mastery at 92 and haste at 90. This has changed, in which mastery is at 99, crit is at 90, and haste is at... 70 (? something much lower than the others). And no, mastery or crit don't have diminishing returns (well, crit does in a way, due to current stat values on gear, but the value is so insane it still beats haste, which also has the same problem).

    the problem with experimentation, is that fact that you need a very specific set-up to do so. You don't just say "I'ma reforge my gear to haste and hit a target dummy, if it's more dps, haste is greater than everything" or anything of that sort. you reforge bits and pieces, use ratios and that shiny calculator function to map out dps per stat point. This is why we use EJ, they do that so we don't have to.


    On PvP: Because armor is still accounted for in PvP, as is resistance. 15% additional damage that is not affected by armor or resistance is amazing for PvP, as ONLY resil takes damage away from it, unlike white damage, which takes a bite from armor and resil.
    Last edited by t3hj0j0; 2011-02-05 at 06:14 PM. Reason: On PvP
    It's not just me, it's ALL rets. Join the ret MS club, get bitches, get money, get nerfed.
    It takes idiots to do cool things. That's why they're cool.

  12. #12
    The Lightbringer Requital's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crothor View Post
    well, if you say so...

    but basically what i wonted to say in my previous post is that one should not run like mad from an item with haste on it just because it has haste. Simple example is: epic item with haste and heroic dungeon item with crit on it... i bet epic will give more str in most cases so all in all one would benefit from it. you can always reforge 40% into what ever you need most (prolly hit and exp).

    anyways, what r current diminishing returns on crit, mastery if any? will there be any? if yes, why would you stack something if it doesn't give the same benefit as second best or third best stat?

    someone said that crit and haste r on par of each other in value of 92 while haste is set at 90. that is small difference if it is true, but that remains to be tested and seen.

    what I'm saying is, do not be closed minded, always leave some room for a bit of experimentation and very possibly improvement.

    -------------------------------------------------------

    oh yeah, forgot... regarding PvP stat weights

    since ressi is changed into mitigating some amount of damage instead of lowering crit chance dose it affect all damage? magical, and melee? if so, why is everyone looking so optimistic at 406 changes to mastery? damage is still damage no mater if it's holy or any other kind.
    Ok I could have explained that better If you have an Epic with Haste it may or may not be worth taking over what you currently have. This is where stat weights come into play. You can guess or ask someone or use an addon to calculate stat weights and believe numbers.

    If you go the addon route I suggest Pawn and here is my write up on it.

    I think this question comes up a lot, Maybe too often so here is what I'm going to suggest and this isn't a bad addon to keep you informed if you are taking mediocre or big upgrades.

    So to start with download Pawn once you have it downloaded /pawn pretty simple this is the screen you will see.



    Now for default it will add the 3 Paladin specs Holy/Prot/Ret on the left hand side under your characters name. Select each one and remove the small check at the very bottom that says show scale in tooltip these are direct imports from wowhead and they have the most off the wall stat values.

    Now Import the proper stat values, I'm currently using Exemplar but you can use Redcape or Exemplars.

    Ret Current or Pre 4.0.6
    Code:
    ( Pawn: v1: "Ret Pre": SpeedBaseline=0.3, CritRating=0.12, Strength=1, TwoHandSpeed=0.5, ExpertiseRating=0.18, HitRating=0.27, HasteRating=0.11, MasteryRating=0.06, TwoHandMinDamage=0.1, TwoHandDps=0.2, TwoHandMaxDamage=0.4, Ap=0.45, GemQualityLevel=86 )
    Ret New or Post 4.0.6
    Code:
    ( Pawn: v1: "Ret Post": SpeedBaseline=0.3, CritRating=0.4, Strength=1, TwoHandSpeed=0.5, ExpertiseRating=0.58, HitRating=0.75, HasteRating=0.29, MasteryRating=0.43, TwoHandMinDamage=0.1, TwoHandDps=0.2, TwoHandMaxDamage=0.4, Ap=0.5, GemQualityLevel=86 )
    Now a few more changes and you are good to go. First off you will see Ret Pre and Ret Post under your scales you can name them w/e you want but make sure to add a check at the bottom of the left side for both to show scale in tooltips.

    Now follow this page for config settings.



    Now on your tooltips when you mouse over something you will have a better idea of the point values.

    Last edited by Requital; 2011-02-05 at 07:58 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Boubouille View Post
    Can you imagine if someone insulted you in a thread, you reported it, and I told you "sorry, wrong thread to be butthurt"?

  13. #13
    Mastery is a little better than crit and haste is significantly lower, though not as low as mastery was before compared to where crit/haste was. Here's Redcape's analysis:

    source
    Quote Originally Posted by Redcape
    I have an update on stat weights for 4.06. I caught a bug in my spreadsheet where I was calculating HoL damage based on CS/TV swing damage *without* crit and glyphs factored in. This caused both crit and mastery to clock in lower than they should have and also underrepresented our dps.

    The current best estimate I have for stat weights is:

    Weapon Speed 174522
    Weapon DPS 872

    Strength 232
    Hit rating 175
    Exp rating 134
    Crit rating 94
    Haste rating 67
    Mastery rating 99

    Of course, as usual, the Hit/Exp weights are for precap values, clearly they are really worth between 99 and 94 depending on how reforging math works out.

    This is a substantial shift as it means that haste is noticeably worse than the other stats, mastery is definitely our best secondary stat and my current estimate for our dps improvement when patch day hits is 18.4k -> 21.4k for 16.3% improvement. I am also showing refreshing Inq with up to 4 seconds remaining at *any* amount of holy power as being optimal (though with the usual caveats that the difference is miniscule) and the optimal rotation as

    Inq
    TV
    HoW
    CS
    Exo
    Judge
    HW
    Cons

    Again, the positioning of HoW and Exo is very weakly optimal, any combination of using Inq first, Judge/HW/Cons last is extremely close.

    Note that all these estimates of changes to dps are ignoring the metagem and bracer enchant changes, which will add a little bit more.

  14. #14
    thanks t3hj0j0 for clearing few things up!

    nice addon requitel! looking forward on using it as soon as i get off my wowbrake

    cheers guys

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