Fury threat is only going to get worse (as it pertains to pulling aggro)

[clickerflipper]

With this new recklessness coming in and basically our damage getting slightly buffed I was curious to know if anyone else thought about aggro?

This is mainly to Fury because that is what I play, but I have heard arms threat is gross when deadly calm is active (though it will probably get a little better because of heroic strike being nerfed).

When I pop my cd's efficiently I tend to pull aggro very rapidly, even when waiting for like 5 seconds after the tank starts attacking. Not to mention lining up with colossus smash which is basically a burst ability. Has anyone else experienced this? I truly believe my tanks are pretty good. And it happens with both the paladin and the DK. Yes I could wait even longer and maybe miss a chance to proc trinket and delay my main cd's longer (which I do in many cases) but what is up with no reduce aggro talent enchance has wind shear pallys have Salv and bubble... warlocks, hunter, mages... they wanted aggro to matter again, ok, but to just warriors?

[Cernunnos]

I do miss Imp Berserk stance, with its passive threat reduction, not that it really helped, but it was something.

If trinkets procs plus Deathwish, colossal smash, yeah I rip aggro fairly easily. And that's without recklessness.







Best get used to using our most potent form of CC. AKA kill it before it kills you.

[Birchy]

Im assuming you are talking about raid bosses and aggro. if you are still pulling aggro after about 15 sec of the tank getting beaten on by the boss then your tank isn't generating the proper threat, i know that once tricks/md ware off im fine for threat, i only need them to get me going so that i can take a few hits for vengeance to start stacking. Of course unless you have the unluckiest tank ever and every pull gets a string of miss/dodge/parry

[clickerflipper]

Im assuming you are talking about raid bosses and aggro. if you are still pulling aggro after about 15 sec of the tank getting beaten on by the boss then your tank isn't generating the proper threat, i know that once tricks/md ware off im fine for threat, i only need them to get me going so that i can take a few hits for vengeance to start stacking. Of course unless you have the unluckiest tank ever and every pull gets a string of miss/dodge/parry

Yes mainly raid bosses and heroics to some extent, but fury was good at pulling threat in heroics in WotLK also. It is mainly the beginning 15 seconds or so. It sucks because we can not attack or auto attack/ bloodthirst (depends on if you have a early proc chance trink) longer than other classes then open up with good % multipliers and trink procs but will the time of not attacking make it about equal as opening up and using some main cd's later? IE Deathwish, Trink, Collosus smash, recklessness

Also, fights with other mobs such as cho'gal adds and Council are sometimes difficult. My main gripe is that some other classes can in most cases go about double potting and such without much issue

[MrMuggles]

I don't believe anyone in the world can rip aggro of me after I've tanked it for more than 20 seconds, and if they do - I have intervene right there with me, also caps lock and a moderate amount of temper to tell people to watch omen.

[DarthDonut]

It just comes down to waiting a a few seconds for tank aggro. Auto attack for a bit, build up rage for a CS burst.

[JustintimeSS]

Basically what others are saying. If youre having threat issues it is because you are impatient or your tanks need to get better. As shitty as that sounds it is the truth and sometimes people just dont want to hear it.

Yes it "sucks" that other dps classes can start right away but in reality it doesn't matter. That comes down to epeen and impatience, not the increase or decrease of a chance to defeat an encounter, afaik.

[Aurora]

Basically what others are saying. If youre having threat issues it is because you are impatient or your tanks need to get better. As shitty as that sounds it is the truth and sometimes people just dont want to hear it..

While true and while a combination of tricks/mds and vengeance should get you through in a guild raid scenario the real problem I had in wrath and is creeping into cata slowly now too is down other avenues like pug raids and heroics. If your pugging baradins hold (which a lot of people do as its often not guild run) your talking about probably getting a tank lower geared than you and your going to have severe problems to do your job in that position. Ditto in heroics, when trash isnt going to let veng stack and hunters/rogues aren't going to do you any favours.

I can accept that stuff like randoms and BH is fairly trivial but lets be honest, its incredibly annoying to be stifled. It's not impatience or pulling in the first 5 seconds I'm refering to, I'm talking about still out TPSing the tank 4 minutes into an Argaloth pull. You could point to veng as to why this should never happen but in reality tanks are nullifying that benefit by reforging away threat stats like hit and expertise these days, this is quite a common practice right now.

And sure the blame is on the tank, I accept that. But the vast majority of random and pug players aren't going to be anything above mediocre so you can't expect perfect TPS from them, the problem is most other dps classes have tools to work around a mediocre tank while we don't.

[brakke]

yes it might be a problem in pugs but what u can do if u got a paladin is ask him to cast salvation on u when needed. when i heal on my paladin i got omen open to keep an eye out for OP dpsssss, cast salvation if needed. i don't know how effective it is but it helps.

[Vetis]

you wait five seconds before blowing cooldowns? don't think its necessary to use cds so soon

[Blafasel]

I do miss Imp Berserk stance, with its passive threat reduction, not that it really helped, but it was something.
Best get used to using our most potent form of CC. AKA kill it before it kills you.

CC thru damage is what I keep saying & doing

and for raids, just wait until the tank got hit 2-3 times (<-> Vengeance is up) and only then start attacking, it's fine for me. And thats without a rogue/hunter, if you have one who actually uses Misdirect/TotT you can usually start right away. And if you pull aggro during the boss fight your Tank is just failing to be honest (except there is some kind of aggro loss/sleep whatever, e.g. at Magmaw you might get hit once by the boss right after he mangled the Tank, that's just bad luck and shouldn't kill you).

Heroics are a completely different story. On trash just pick the caster mob first, if you counter it once you will not take any considerable damage

[Gatsu]

It just comes down to waiting a a few seconds for tank aggro. Auto attack for a bit, build up rage for a CS burst.

Basically this.

you wait five seconds before blowing cooldowns? don't think its necessary to use cds so soon

your proc trinkets will last only 20 secs, you cannot wait too much, you need to sync your cds.

[MestHoop]

While true and while a combination of tricks/mds and vengeance should get you through in a guild raid scenario the real problem I had in wrath and is creeping into cata slowly now too is down other avenues like pug raids and heroics. If your pugging baradins hold (which a lot of people do as its often not guild run) your talking about probably getting a tank lower geared than you and your going to have severe problems to do your job in that position. Ditto in heroics, when trash isnt going to let veng stack and hunters/rogues aren't going to do you any favours.

I can accept that stuff like randoms and BH is fairly trivial but lets be honest, its incredibly annoying to be stifled. It's not impatience or pulling in the first 5 seconds I'm refering to, I'm talking about still out TPSing the tank 4 minutes into an Argaloth pull. You could point to veng as to why this should never happen but in reality tanks are nullifying that benefit by reforging away threat stats like hit and expertise these days, this is quite a common practice right now.

And sure the blame is on the tank, I accept that. But the vast majority of random and pug players aren't going to be anything above mediocre so you can't expect perfect TPS from them, the problem is most other dps classes have tools to work around a mediocre tank while we don't.

That's why any tank worth his money has hit and exp trinkets in their bags they can switch to in order to not miss every god damned attack

[Nikkaszal]

While true and while a combination of tricks/mds and vengeance should get you through in a guild raid scenario the real problem I had in wrath and is creeping into cata slowly now too is down other avenues like pug raids and heroics. If your pugging baradins hold (which a lot of people do as its often not guild run) your talking about probably getting a tank lower geared than you and your going to have severe problems to do your job in that position. Ditto in heroics, when trash isnt going to let veng stack and hunters/rogues aren't going to do you any favours.

I can accept that stuff like randoms and BH is fairly trivial but lets be honest, its incredibly annoying to be stifled. It's not impatience or pulling in the first 5 seconds I'm refering to, I'm talking about still out TPSing the tank 4 minutes into an Argaloth pull. You could point to veng as to why this should never happen but in reality tanks are nullifying that benefit by reforging away threat stats like hit and expertise these days, this is quite a common practice right now.

And sure the blame is on the tank, I accept that. But the vast majority of random and pug players aren't going to be anything above mediocre so you can't expect perfect TPS from them, the problem is most other dps classes have tools to work around a mediocre tank while we don't.

If a tank is starting to lose threat to a raid boss after several minutes of fight time, the ONLY reason this is so is because they have either DC'd, fallen asleep or are just plain bad. There's nothing you can do about it, and you can't change around your class for it. The only thing you can do in situations like this is to either tell the tank to do better, get a better tank or bite the bullet and auto-hit for a bit.

It's not limited to you - others specs have a rough ride with subpar tanks. I play a Frost DK. I have no threat modifier whatsoever, and a hugely inflated crit rate thanks to KM. There are several people in my guild who rolled tank alts for Cataclysm who are terrified of having me in their Heroic because of the crushing amount of threat I generate. However, some of these people have also attributed me (as well as our other Frostie and our DPS warriors) to improving their tanking ability, in that we pushed them to be better with threat and now they can comfortably hold from anyone.

[junialum]

You are only liable to pull threat on the first 7 seconds of each boss fight. After which if you still do, your tank is doing something wrong. (Or there is a weird mechanic where say the boss cannot be meleed for a long time and gains a debuff that increases range/magic damage taken)

Threat is easy in Cata, it has already been easy in Wrath.

[Aurora]

If a tank is starting to lose threat to a raid boss after several minutes of fight time, the ONLY reason this is so is because they have either DC'd, fallen asleep or are just plain bad. There's nothing you can do about it, and you can't change around your class for it. The only thing you can do in situations like this is to either tell the tank to do better, get a better tank or bite the bullet and auto-hit for a bit.

It's not limited to you - others specs have a rough ride with subpar tanks. I play a Frost DK. I have no threat modifier whatsoever, and a hugely inflated crit rate thanks to KM. There are several people in my guild who rolled tank alts for Cataclysm who are terrified of having me in their Heroic because of the crushing amount of threat I generate. However, some of these people have also attributed me (as well as our other Frostie and our DPS warriors) to improving their tanking ability, in that we pushed them to be better with threat and now they can comfortably hold from anyone.

Your talking about dealing with reasonable smart people which unfortunately aren't the kind you always meet in randoms. A lot of tanks can be alts or just casuals who have very little clue of what they're doing or how to gear themselves. While yes that is their fault, a mage/druid/rogue/hunter/warlock etc can work around this problem. We cannot, it may be their fault but its our problem as a result.

[Hykon]

That's why any tank worth his money has hit and exp trinkets in their bags they can switch to in order to not miss every god damned attack

If you read the tanking forums, especially for Warrior, hit and exp are dead and useless. Especially in raids, the damage increase from Vengeance is enormous especially if geared. I reforge and gem for straight avoidance. I have + 0.86% or something hit chance increase and 6 expertise and don't lose agro on raid bosses. If threat is really a problem, your tank is doing it wrong or needs to get a bit more health to have a higher vengeance cap. I have about 151k unbuffed since I gem and reforge for straight avoidance and get all my stam from gear. I have about 175k raid buffed which is plenty to do crazy amounts of damage to keep aggro (well at least crazy when it comes to Prot DPS :P) The extra avoidance (~84% without Shield Block, at soft cap (unhittable) with SB up) is awesome and really helps the healers out with me not taking crazy amounts of damage, most everything is at least blocked.

[Deleted]

All threat is even amongst the DPS classes.

There is no passive threat reduction left ingame, so everyone does damage to threat at a 1:1 ratio, granted some classes have means of dropping.

Fury warriors simply have really high burst but if you controll that you won't have issues.

[Kurshu]

I have massive threat issues even after waiting extended periods of time.

1. Tank Pulls
2. I stack sunders to 3 (yes 3)
3. I then wait 5-6 more seconds (Tank usually has 350-400k~ threat now)
4. I go beast mode popping everything and pull agro within 5 seconds
5. I die, meanwhile rogue pulls the same DPS and has near zero threat

I am not sure how tricks works these days, what puts the numbers next to the tanks name on omen?

[reflection]

Just give the tank some time to start tanking. Then it should not be a problem (at least not for me as a tank )