Who is the" Lich King"?

[Sh4d0wsh4m4n]

Ner'zhul ceased to exist when he and Arthas merged to form the Lich King. He was intending to be the dominant personality, or soul, but Arthas rejected him and forced his conciousness through. When Arthas was the Lich King there was Arthas, the Lich King, and Frostmourne. The Lich King was a fusion of Ner'zhul and Arthas' souls and is an entity in itself, and has become the most powerful psychic entity in Warcraft lore. Frostmourne could be argued as to having a consciousness itself, since most of what Arthas said pertained to Frostmourne and what it wanted (ex: Frostmourne hungers). And Arthas' consciousness was trying to restrain them.

The ending to the Lich King was annoying, however, because the lore added in to the Lich King fight shows that he was the single most powerful entity on Azeroth, even moreso than the Old Gods. How you may ask? First is the fact that his army was more powerful than any other army on Azeroth. If let loose, the Alliance and Horde would quickly fall. You may, also, mention the Old Gods. But, unless you failed to notice, the Old Gods armies are only mighty on Azeroth because of the mortal races doing their bidding. If the mortal races were destroyed and the Old Gods emerged into a world that contained nothing but the Lich King's minions, lets just say they would not be alive in their sense of the word much longer. There is also the fact that Arthas, if he had wanted to, could have killed Tirion Fordring and all the other heroes in Icecrown Citadel with not much more than a quick spell cast that takes no longer than it takes him to swing his sword. No other entity in Warcraft could do this lorewise, not even the mighty Kil'jaeden. So, arguably, he is the most powerful 1v1 combatant as well because his power over death allow him to kill anyone he sees fit to.

The Lich King is NOT the most powerful psychic entity in WC lore... If you leave out his army of mindless and/or deathbound servants, only thing Lich King could influence was the person in a posession of items with a piece of his soul inside (like frostmourne); while on the other hand, Old Gods are able to corrupt creatures that were made to be flawless and pure (like the nearly omnipowerful beings as Titans and their creations- the dragon aspects). You say Old Gods are nothing without their army of mortals that serve them with blind devotion? I say the same, power of Lich King himself is not even close to being as powerful as you claim him to be... Remember the battle in EPL where tirion made Arthas fall back?

[Deleted]

It was told in the book that Arthas's good side, and Ner'zhul, were both killed. The evil Arthas/Forstmourne manifestation was the Lich King before Bolvar took control. When he died, a slight sliver of his human side returned. That same human side was Mathias Lehner, the same sliver that remained within him. He killed the majority of it, but there was still a very slight presence.

That's why I'm saying it was not killed; killed, at least in this case, implies "gone forever". And if Arthas' good side was alive and well enough to make one push for help (Mathias) and then take full control of the body before death, who is to say that Ner'zhul died? I doubt he'd be able to take even partial control of Bolvar, but I'm just arguing that his spirit is still alive.

[Supercrunchy]

Bolvar is Lich King, Arthas is dead and Blizzard has said theyre "done with Ner'zhul" so we can assume he's dead too

[Herecius]

There is also the fact that Arthas, if he had wanted to, could have killed Tirion Fordring and all the other heroes in Icecrown Citadel with not much more than a quick spell cast that takes no longer than it takes him to swing his sword. No other entity in Warcraft could do this lorewise, not even the mighty Kil'jaeden. So, arguably, he is the most powerful 1v1 combatant as well because his power over death allow him to kill anyone he sees fit to.

I personally disagree on this point, as even the substantially distracted and weakened Kil'Jaeden, still coming half-through the Sunwell portal, had an incredibly powerful one-shot ability that required the direct intervention of the blue dragonflight in order to allow your raid to survive. I'm sure Kil'Jaeden at his peak is even stronger, and Sargeras (and possibly unrevealed Old Gods to and Azshara) are stronger still.

[Sh4d0wsh4m4n]

pretty much what herecius said, Sargeras is the most powerful entity in whole WC universe. He was the champion of Titans, strongest among them, powerful enough to exterminate any demonic species, and then he went all 'bad boy'. Given the fact he now rules over the strongest evil force in the universe (The Burning Legion), id say he tops the 'power' meter. Don't be silly as to look at boss fights, since most bosses do have a 1 shoot ability (try dealing with archi without the shield in the end), and every hit chimeraon does in bwd25 hc is ~900k (might be a bit off, but not much).

[Adalwolf]

Ever saw Dragon Ball? Nerzhul and Arthas merged with Potara Earrings, not with the Fusion Dance. That's why they were fist fighting inside Arthas' head.

It's not Ner'zhul that gives the Helm of Dominance control over the scourge, it's the Helm that gives Ner'zhul control over it. Ner'zhul soul was attached to the Helm because he had no body, he was just a ghost. He got a body when merged with Arthas.

Arthas body died, and if there was anything left of Ner'zhul, it died with Arthas.

[Melira]

The Lich King is NOT the most powerful psychic entity in WC lore... If you leave out his army of mindless and/or deathbound servants, only thing Lich King could influence was the person in a posession of items with a piece of his soul inside (like frostmourne); while on the other hand, Old Gods are able to corrupt creatures that were made to be flawless and pure (like the nearly omnipowerful beings as Titans and their creations- the dragon aspects). You say Old Gods are nothing without their army of mortals that serve them with blind devotion? I say the same, power of Lich King himself is not even close to being as powerful as you claim him to be... Remember the battle in EPL where tirion made Arthas fall back?

Holy ground. Guess the "power of the light" is the greates power in the Warcraft Universe?

[phyrix]

Holy ground. Guess the "power of the light" is the greates power in the Warcraft Universe?

Either way I wouldn't count out the Holy Light and the Naaru.

The Naaru are pretty damn powerful beings. Just a fragment of one is what gave the Ashbringer it's power. And the Ashbringer is one incredibly powerful sword.

[blazeskies117]

go to wowwiki and type in

Lich King Lore

It will solve all your confusion.

This.

Also the lich king isn't really a person at all or anything like that, it's the combination of Ner'Zul and whoever wears the helmet he's imprisoned in that is granted the ability to control the scourge. Hence the combination term Lich King.

[Sh4d0wsh4m4n]

Holy ground. Guess the "power of the light" is the greates power in the Warcraft Universe?

Sargeras didnt seem to mind much that sunwell was a ground of holy energy when he decided to hang around...
In the end, the power of Frostmourne, the ultimate weapon of Lich King, was shattered by the Ashbringer.

[Melira]

Either way I wouldn't count out the Holy Light and the Naaru.

The Naaru are pretty damn powerful beings. Just a fragment of one is what gave the Ashbringer it's power. And the Ashbringer is one incredibly powerful sword.

I guess we have gone a little bit off topic now but it is still interesting to think about that if the Naaru are the most powerful beings then who created them? Did they create the titans, or did the titans create them, what came first, the chicken or the egg?

---------- Post added 2011-02-06 at 11:21 PM ----------

Sargeras didnt seem to mind much that sunwell was a ground of holy energy when he decided to hang around...
In the end, the power of Frostmourne, the ultimate weapon of Lich King, was shattered by the Ashbringer.

I thought the Sunwell was a result from the well of eternity, which was a source of great arcane energy, not holy?

[Supercrunchy]

I guess we have gone a little bit off topic now but it is still interesting to think about that if the Naaru are the most powerful beings then who created them? Did they create the titans, or did the titans create them, what came first, the chicken or the egg?

a team of writers at blizzard created them =P

[phyrix]

I guess we have gone a little bit off topic now but it is still interesting to think about that if the Naaru are the most powerful beings then who created them? Did they create the titans, or did the titans create them, what came first, the chicken or the egg?

---------- Post added 2011-02-06 at 11:21 PM ----------



I thought the Sunwell was a result from the well of eternity, which was a source of great arcane energy, not holy?

From WoWwiki:

In Sunwell Plateau, Velen describes M'uru's essence as "bathed by the light of Creation — just as it was at the Dawn [sic]." This may indicate M'uru (and other naaru) were born at the dawn of creation

It's not known how the Naaru came to be exactly, we only know that they've been around since the beginning of time.

They may very well be a physical manifestation of the powers of good.

And afaik, yes, the Sunwell is a source of Arcane power, not Holy energy.

[Sh4d0wsh4m4n]

my bad, i was mislead by http://www.wowhead.com/item=34471 then ^^
and it was KJ, not Sargeras, so that point is pretty invalid in any case; ty for the info.
Even still, I'd be very very dissapointed if a being who once relentlessly destroyed races and races of demons with nobody to match its power is weaker then one that can't even conquer a single world.

[Melira]

my bad, i was mislead by http://www.wowhead.com/item=34471 then ^^
and it was KJ, not Sargeras, so that point is pretty invalid in any case; ty for the info.
Even still, I'd be very very dissapointed if a being who once relentlessly destroyed races and races of demons with nobody to match its power is weaker then one that can't even conquer a single world.

Well, now we get back to the discussion if Arthas ( the good part of him ) held Ner'zhul back so that he could not give the order to take over the world. As it was said, someone must be the Lich King to prevent the scourge from running rampage all over the place.

[Crona]

Ner'zhul was the first Lich King, his spirit is trying to control Bolvar, but Bolvar's will is weakening him. Eventually, one will fail, and the other will have complete control. Right now it's just a fight within an unliving body.

I tought arthas killed Ner'zhul?

[Deleted]

world of warcraft: arthas, nezy and frostmourne is dead! bolvar is the new lich king and is keeping the scourge under somewhat of control

and guess why?

becuase of lore!



sidenote: blizzard devs do the lore and they are "finished" with nezy, however as we all know blizzard can change there mind as they see fit
to quote a dev

"we will never implement a race change service"

guess whats in the game atm :P

[eLiTe_J_]

Sigh...

Ending of the RotLK book was retconned about Arthas ''killing'' Ner'zhul. Sources below

Q. Will Ner'zhul appear at any point in 3.3 or the near future?
A. Well, he is a chunk of the Lich King now. But if you mean will he appear as an orc, we're not ready to tell his story just yet. We have a lot of stories left to tell, but his is a good one.

^ this is from the wow developers chat on twitter well AFTER that book got released. Ner'zhul is not dead nor is he consumed nor suppressed/banished, he is still alive.


CM Crygil also stated, "He didn't actually erase the persona of Ner'zhul. In point of fact, these two beings merged to make up what was collectively known as "The Lich King", on the official World of Warcraft forums. This also being posted well after the Book was released. Obviously I cant give you the forum post because the old forums are gone, but its on the Ner'zhul page and Lich king page of wowwiki.

Ner'zhul did indeed die though when we slay the Lich King in Wrath though. It is only Bolvar in control. Chris Metzen himself has stated this at blizzcon (well he stated Ner'zhul died in wrath 3.3). So please stop citing that book saying arthas killed ner'zhul. He didn't. And thank god that got retconned cuz it was one of the most atrocious butcherings of a wow villain i've ever seen. Ner'zhul ftw. I'm still deeply disappointed with how Ner'zhul was barely mentioned in the expansion though. I guarantee you if you go and say ''LFM NER'ZHUL 10 man need tank and dps'' everyone will be like huh? who?