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  1. #61
    Epic! Skizzit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Avachel View Post
    The problem is, too many posters in this thread are referring to pre-T2A, when the only available facet was Felucca. What makes the reference to that era so silly, is that pre-T2A is nearly 20 years ago, and 5 new facets have been introduced since. The game has evolved over the years, and players who don't enjoy the dangers of PvP, simply don't go into a PvP-enabled facet. What's the first response a player receives when complaining about PvP in WoW? "lawlz reroll on a non-pvp server nub". The same concept applies to UO now. If you don't like PvP, don't venture into lands where it's permitted. Your only other risk would be being PK'ed by a guild member, or being caught up in guild wars (something WoW is seriously lacking).

    Again, you're referring to a primitive era. The server I currently own supports a number of different customs/concepts. Have a look at our advertisement thread on JoinUO: Imperium UO - For the players, by the players!. (Don't worry, JoinUO is a legit site... it's a voting service that allows members of the free shard community to vote for their shard to increase their ranking and recognition on the list.) We have everything from a casino, to a PvP Bounty system, to Pirates on the high seas. UO's first few expansions were a bit dull, but classic.

    Also, I should mention that Champion Spawns are akin to raids.
    I am not sure what point you are trying to argue. I am well aware that EA/OSI has tried to make UO more appealing to current MMO players by adding what they look for in a game with end game combat and thief/PK free areas, but that is not what this thread is about. This thread was talking about how people missed the old days of UO where it was a much more open game that relied on the players for almost everything. My point was that people left UO and started playing games like EQ and WoW because they had those things when UO did not. The fact that UO added them in later doesn't chance that fact. Just mention the dreaded Pub 16 and the start of Age of Shadows to any really old school UO player to see what I mean. Pre Pub 16 UO and Post Pub 16 UO are very different games.


    Quote Originally Posted by Avachel View Post
    As Ighox mentioned, the UO community is far from dead. Most people are too ignorant to believe that a game 20+ years old could still be going strong. It may never compare to WoW in terms of subscriptions, but I'd estimate there are still a few million players left (with at least half being part of the free shard community). I could name at least three privately owned servers, hosted by the average joe, with 1-2k players.
    An MMO where over half your player base is playing on non-sanctioned player run servers really doesn't sound like a great success to me. That's fine for the people playing on player run shards and the people who run them, but I highly doubt EA would claim it as a success.

    Sure, there probably is a market for a UO style MMO in today's market and there are a number of small MMO companies out there working on them, but the vast majority of the time when I read these kind of threads by UO fans, they want a WoW sized game with WoW's budget and UO's style of rules and gameplay and that is not going to happen any time soon.

    Quote Originally Posted by Grable View Post
    Wrong. May I point you to games like Haven&Hearth / Salem and DayZ Mod (which is currently EXTREMELY popular). All 3 games have permadeath, a much harsher death penalty than UO.

    I could also point you to EVE online where dying also matters - if you didn't know yet, EVE online too is extremely popular.

    Just because most of the players of today are carebears, doesn't mean there's no place for games with harsher death penalties. And to be honest the best time I had (and still have) playing games was in those. Just knowing that you can get killed any time completely changes how the game works and adds a whole new layer of depth to the gameplay and social interaction.
    You are correct, I worded that badly. There is a market for those kinds of games, albeit a small one.

    I do find it insulting to call fans of more forgiving games "carebears" though. There is no reason to resort to name calling just because someone enjoys a different style of game then you. The fact is video games are a business. They exist to make money. If a style of game was not popular, they would not be made. The MMO market is very competitive right now and people vote with their wallets.

    Some day down the line, the popularity of "WoW-clone" MMO games will fade and maybe companies will be more willing to take chances with MMOs for all types of players from the really hardcore to the really casual. I really hope that time does come. More variety in the MMO market can only be a good thing. But for now, those harsher kind of games are mostly only going to be made by the smaller developers for smaller, niche markets.
    Last edited by Skizzit; 2012-05-30 at 07:30 AM.

  2. #62
    Quote Originally Posted by Skizzit View Post
    I do find it insulting to call fans of more forgiving games "carebears" though. There is no reason to resort to name calling just because someone enjoys a different style of game then you. The fact is video games are a business. They exist to make money. If a style of game was not popular, they would not be made. The MMO market is very competitive right now and people vote with their wallets.
    I apologize, I am only mad at the gamers of today for making companies want to make WoW clones and not UO clones, if you get what I'm saying.
    "Loss of blood... My only weakness!"
    ~ Warlord Khan, Magicka

    Anyway, if you don't already see where I'm going with this, allow me to spell it out: the only meaningful MMORPG "endgame" -- i.e., something novel to do after the progression process is over -- is that of the sandbox.

  3. #63
    Quote Originally Posted by Grable View Post
    Wrong. May I point you to games like Haven&Hearth / Salem and DayZ Mod (which is currently EXTREMELY popular). All 3 games have permadeath, a much harsher death penalty than UO.

    I could also point you to EVE online where dying also matters - if you didn't know yet, EVE online too is extremely popular.

    Just because most of the players of today are carebears, doesn't mean there's no place for games with harsher death penalties. And to be honest the best time I had (and still have) playing games was in those. Just knowing that you can get killed any time completely changes how the game works and adds a whole new layer of depth to the gameplay and social interaction.
    Permadeath indeed makes games more exciting. But mostly in the way of people getting really mad when someone else kills them for fun. And this social interaction you speak of - just check H&H's forum, to see how the game is full of jerks, griefers and flamers who will totally ruin someone else's months-worth progress because they are bored and because they can. And behaviour like this is even promoted by devs.

    Don't get mad at gamers for not liking to spend weeks / months building something and then having it all trashed by some hardcore player, because said gamers don't have enough time at their hands and friends support.

    Games like this are fun, but usually only to the people who rule in them, not to those who are at their mercy.

    I am not against permadeath or severe death penalties, as long as you have some control over it.
    I have enough of EA ruining great franchises and studios, forcing DRM and Origin on their games, releasing incomplete games only to sell day-1 DLCs or spill dozens of DLCs, and then saying it, and microtransactions, is what players want, stopping players from giving EA games poor reviews, as well as deflecting complaints with cheap PR tricks.

    I'm not going to buy any game by EA as long as they continue those practices.

  4. #64
    Quote Originally Posted by Alric View Post
    Amen OP.... Amen. You hit the nail on the head EXACTLY.

    I loved UO, so much that I coded my own servers. Ahhh those were the days.
    This. I miss the world pvp so much Best MMO ever!!!

  5. #65
    Field Marshal Davlin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skizzit View Post
    I am not sure what point you are trying to argue. I am well aware that EA/OSI has tried to make UO more appealing to current MMO players by adding what they look for in a game with end game combat and thief/PK free areas, but that is not what this thread is about. This thread was talking about how people missed the old days of UO where it was a much more open game that relied on the players for almost everything.
    The economy is still heavily player driven, nothing has ever changed that. While the original post may have been presumably based on the pre-T2A era, it also changed course and discussed the alleged "death" of Ultima, which is just a fallible theory. Ultima hasn't changed much in the way of it's core fundamentals, regardless of what Publish you reference.


    Quote Originally Posted by Skizzit View Post
    An MMO where over half your player base is playing on non-sanctioned player run servers really doesn't sound like a great success to me. That's fine for the people playing on player run shards and the people who run them, but I highly doubt EA would claim it as a success.
    Then I recommend reading up on some blogs from the development team. Many of them have openly acknowledged playing on these "non-sanctioned" servers, and admit to using some of the creativity found on these servers, on production servers. Just because EA has never released a press statement saying "screw it, everyone should use an Emulator", doesn't mean that partaking in the free shard community is akin to eating the "forbidden fruit".

    Neither RunUO nor Orbsydia infringes upon the copyrights of the server or client code that EA uses. The information gathered to create RunUO was obtained from reverse engineering parts of the client and packet-sniffing packets intended to go from the client to the server, both of which are completely legal practices. In addition, the UO client predates the DMCA by a year so distributing your OWN content in their file formats (.mul, etc) is legal. Distributing EA's copyrighted maps and other client files however, would not be.

    A game's EULA is seperate from it's copyright (although many reference their copyright in the EULA), and is only civilly enforceable, not criminally. Many of the terms requested by the EULA are not even enforceable at all, and some are absolutely preposterous and frivolous. (True Story: iTunes' EULA says you cannot use its software for the creation of chemical or biological weapons.)

    Per UO's own EULA, they mention only the termination of your account with THEIR Service as a penalty for playing/running a free shard, so the threat of even a civil lawsuit is null. Even if they wanted to sue, since there is no copyright violation, they would have to otherwise prove that you somehow cost them players/money or otherwise directly caused them damages though your actions. This would be akin to Lowes suing Home Depot for stealing their customers.


    Quote Originally Posted by Skizzit View Post
    Sure, there probably is a market for a UO style MMO in today's market and there are a number of small MMO companies out there working on them, but the vast majority of the time when I read these kind of threads by UO fans, they want a WoW sized game with WoW's budget and UO's style of rules and gameplay and that is not going to happen any time soon.
    And the vast majority of that content is written by people who're accustomed to WoW-style MMO's. Smaller communities make for more interesting social interaction. With 11 million players on World of Warcraft, outside of LFD/LFR, I don't interact with many folks aside from a handful in my guild, and I'm willing to bet the same applies to the majority of the player base. Within Ultima, you actually have a purpose for contacting other players - every day brings about new dynamic game play and social interaction.
    Last edited by Davlin; 2012-05-31 at 04:23 AM.

  6. #66
    I agree 1000% with the OP. Ultima Online, back in the day, was just fucking amazing. I would pay good money for a modern MMO with UO's ruleset and world. Although, honestly, it would be difficult to recapture the magic of UO without sprites...

  7. #67
    Bravo to the OP. I agree with you. To those who are complaining that the PKer's left you with nothing. In all my years (12) playing UO (Yes I still play on Oceania and Siege) I've only been dry looted twice. PKer's were the ultimate in making you (wo)man up and make friends learn to survive, never wear anything you can't afford to replace. My PvE bard lived through Felluca, and I could take the red's on. I lost more then I won, but when they lost it was worth it. And nothing got your heart going harder then that red name popped up on the side of screen, cause you know, they saw you as well, and it was on. If I had the skills of a programmer, I'd take the WoW world and do everything I could to bend it to be a new UO. (pre-publish 16)

  8. #68
    Pandaren Monk
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    I never played Ultima Online but i did play all of the original Ultimas... this was always going to a be an awesome fantasy traditional MMO if it went online. Great to hear it was such a great game and im annoyed i missed it! lol

    Ive been looking for this type of MMO so if it there are any other good ones like UO out there then please let me know

  9. #69
    Uhm, why don't you play UO then?
    I have enough of EA ruining great franchises and studios, forcing DRM and Origin on their games, releasing incomplete games only to sell day-1 DLCs or spill dozens of DLCs, and then saying it, and microtransactions, is what players want, stopping players from giving EA games poor reviews, as well as deflecting complaints with cheap PR tricks.

    I'm not going to buy any game by EA as long as they continue those practices.

  10. #70
    Field Marshal Davlin's Avatar
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    There never will be another MMO that can match Ultima Online - period. Those that seek look-alikes certainly aren't a true fan of the franchise, especially when it's still available to play, for free.

  11. #71
    For free? last time I checked UO offered only 14 day free trial and 15$/month subscription. Has that changed?
    I have enough of EA ruining great franchises and studios, forcing DRM and Origin on their games, releasing incomplete games only to sell day-1 DLCs or spill dozens of DLCs, and then saying it, and microtransactions, is what players want, stopping players from giving EA games poor reviews, as well as deflecting complaints with cheap PR tricks.

    I'm not going to buy any game by EA as long as they continue those practices.

  12. #72
    Field Marshal Davlin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by procne View Post
    For free? last time I checked UO offered only 14 day free trial and 15$/month subscription. Has that changed?
    Depends if you want to play on a production (EA-owned) server, or if you want to dive into the free-shard community. As I've mentioned about a dozen times throughout this thread, there are several free servers to choose from.

  13. #73
    What an excellent thread! I too played UO back around 2000 and quit just after AoS set in. I started playing the game again in late 2010 and I still play today. I do play on the EA Servers though. Catskills was my home shard so I've played mostly there but recently I transfered to Atlantic, as the population on Catskills was dying down.

    I've played other MMO's and none of the have ever touched the depth that Ultima does. Even with all the changes over the years, this is still a fantastic game. I have not seen another game touch PvP the way this game does. That is essentially what drew me back to playing it today.

    UO now has two clients you can choose from. That classic client that you all know, and then an Enhanced client ( not the old 3D they tried out ). I really enjoy the enhanced client alot. They have also made the enhanced client where users can create their own user interface. I use a popular one called Pinco's UI, and after using this so long its difficult to imagine how I played it on Classic Client.

    Avachel, is there support for the Enhanced client on free servers, or is it all Classic Client based and having to run Razor or something akin?

  14. #74
    Field Marshal Davlin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hektik View Post
    Avachel, is there support for the Enhanced client on free servers, or is it all Classic Client based and having to run Razor or something akin?
    Depends on what server you play on.

    Some servers are working to provide support for the client as the needed support is all server side, while some simply aren't capable of doing so. Personally, I use Pinco's UI on my own server and have only had a random crash here or there, generally resulting from one particular tile.

  15. #75
    Another ex-UO player here. I played just after Trammel was introduced so I missed out on the true essence of what Richard Garriott envisioned - an open world sandbox where players created their own fun, lore, and justice, instead of being led by the hand to do X, Y, and Z.

    However I got a chance to play true Ultima Online via a free shard called The Second Age. It faithfully recreates Ultima Online as it was around November 1999 - shortly before Renaissance was released. For those who don't know UO:Renaissance introduced Trammel, a land of no risk. Its often cited as the publish that killed UO. So for those who want to try UO pre Renaissance, I recommend googling The Second Age. You can download the client and Razor from their site.

    Also some good news (possibly) is that Richard Garriott who created UO is thinking of returning to the genre of MMORPG's soon.

    He was interviewed by Markee Dragon (anyone remember him?) here...

    youtube.com/watch?v=v4xfrVUj_c0

    I can't post full links unfortunately, but you can find the interview on Youtube called "Lord British shall walk the streets of Britannia again!"

    The story Garriott tells at 18:30 in that vid sums up what UO was all about imho
    Last edited by JayDee99; 2012-06-16 at 02:05 PM.

  16. #76
    I picked up UO maybe 6 years ago and played it for at least 3 years. I didnt play on "official" servers or however you call them, but I still loved private servers which were managed well and customized well too (no glitter stuff which is just plain ugly etc.).

    Anyway, I really wanted to play it once again, but I dont feel like go to "official" servers or join any private server which has been running for years. I want to play on server from launch. Granted, quality might not be as good as on server which has been running for over 5 years. But I dont want to start on server where everyone is bored because nothing has been changed. Map is boring, loads of people have accumulated loads of cash, everyone is skillcapped warrior/mage etc. I once got into this situation on one server, which was amazingly well done, but most players didnt had enthuasism to play anymore. Almost every account had skillcapped warrior and crafter and most people had those "rare" dungeon items already. I hanged out with few players, they were giving me free stuff, which kinda devastated my experience, because everything came so easy. They also used to tell me these epic PvP stories when they used to "rule whole server" from few years ago. I felt that I missed a lot.

    But I also was on another server, where I actually started quite early from launch and missed few big events, but managed to participate in a lot of events and shape server's history. It is whole new experience when most players dont know everything about server, you dont see skillcapped crafter around every corner, (in fact, it took years before someone managed to skillcap blacksmithing) it is actually amazing to hit skill required to craft from new material from which nobody has been able to craft before. You actually managed to explore new places where only few on server has gone before and you could run around with red name and have average skills, but you didnt had to fear some skillcapped mage to come and explode your ass with just few hits. You could be a part in those "epic PvP stories"

    Now this server is completely dead after running for over 5 years. Everyone is rich, items doesnt matter anymore, everyone has skillcapped characters, nothing to explore and people are just screaming for wipe. But it is too late to wipe and make new custom map, everyone is gone.


    Anyway, my point is, even though that first server where I came late was miles ahead with all custom stuff, mechanics etc. I still have best memories and experience from second server, because there was so much stuff to explore for everyone. Server, where you didnt had to macro your skills to cap for few months before you could participate in PvP competitively. Server, where you didnt see players in full glitterz epax gear around every corner with their skillcapped characters.

    So, I searched for some soon launching new UO servers and I found one which looked promising. Few of developers were actually creating POL emulator back in the days, so they really know their stuff. It is supposed to launch this summer. For everyone who wants to go somewhere where no other player has gone before or do something what no other player has done before, feel free to join http://www.dysentria.com/


    Sorry if it sounded somehow that I was trying to sell this shard, it really wasnt my intention.
    Last edited by Gámbller; 2012-06-19 at 10:49 PM.

  17. #77
    High Overlord dPwnShop's Avatar
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    Do a youtube search for Ultima online music "britain" and "forest".... you wont be disappointed

  18. #78
    Their is an mmo that has been out for years, I played it a long time before World of Warcraft. It was quite fun for a while, had challenging pvp (didnt participate) and is pretty challenging over all, their is no level cap, and death is something you must fear because you lose 10% of your experience (when i say experience, I mean every single bit of exp you have ever gained which ends up turning into losing levels and sometimes two or three at the very high levels.) , skills, and have a 10% chance of losing any item on you, that is if you dont have blessings.

    The game is called tibia, it is heavily inspired by ultima in its infancy, It think its strayed some from this in recent years, but its still not terrible. It had a really bad turn when it became overunn with botters,a nd in some places still is, but its gotten better. You might like it, I still play it off an on occasionally, but much prefer wow now days.

    WWW.Tibia.Com

  19. #79
    Quote Originally Posted by JayDee99 View Post
    Also some good news (possibly) is that Richard Garriott who created UO is thinking of returning to the genre of MMORPG's soon.
    it's not like he ever really left, he worked on a bunch of different mmos after UO, some of which were highly successful but some which were big bombs.
    unless if you mean coming back after he got screwed by ncsoft
    Last edited by bals; 2012-06-20 at 04:25 AM.

  20. #80

    Either way, WE NEED A NEW UO

    Either way we need a new UO. The game industry has fallen apart IMO. Like said earlier, All the new games have the same base play. Sure graphics are different, but the game play is all the same. Run back and forth in the same crap capture the flag game for thousands of hours to get what? A set of armor that no one else has unless they give up their life and no one can take from you. They try to make these games feel and partake like real life events and all they are is crap. Having good and evil sides but all you can do is kill or pvp in certain zones. No looting, no penalties, just a bunch of care bear crap that all the cry baby nerds cried for, for years! Well, they have won and taken over the game community. I understand some people just cant handle losing all their items, and that is why care bear servers were created. Why not make servers for hard core pvp, with all the old ways of UO. Why not make a game where the players can have their own vendors, houses, and lifestyles???? WHY WHY WHY??? With all the technology this world has, the best you can do is hurry up finish a game before some other company, rush it out before its even done and fail after scamming everyone out of their money....Time after time, game after game in my opinion has failed after UO and Everquest.....WOW? dont even go there, that game is a cartoon care bear rerun waste of time. Please, before i grow any older, come out with a new and greater experience like UO PLEASE!

    ps. Don't let this thread die!!!

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