New games like old school Ultima Online

[sizzoulmane]

So I often reminisce about my old days playing Ultima Online because I believe it had the most fun collection of gameplay elements out of any game before it or since....

Want to buy new, upgraded graphics and engine Ultima Online. An open ended world that has real places, including real player housing, and not just instances everywhere. A world where there are no "quests" to hold your hands and direct you on how to spend your time and you can make that choice yourself. One can only dream.

I know this is an old thread, but I found it searching for "Ultima Online Clones"... I've been a UO fanboy since its release, and played loyally for 6+years and was curious to see what was out there. Anywho, there has yet to be an MMO or game of similar ilk that has captured my attention or focus for so long. UO eased me into tabletop RPGs, such as Dungeons and Dragons, Shadowrun, White Wolf, some of which I've been running campaigns for 10+ years.

The folks from the paizo.com released their own rendition of the D&D ruleset called Pathfinder that has conquered the tabletop gaming world since its release in 2008. Last year they released a Kickstarter fundraiser to build an open-world sandbox MMO, which rose to well over what they asked for. Since then it would seem that with everything they've spoke on about Pathfinder Online's features will be the closest thing to an updated "Ultima Online" because ofsimilar gameplay features. Open world PvP, 'classless' skill sets, player made: quests, towns, buildings, etc. I definitely donated, and have HIGH hopes for this game. OOOoOoOOoo!!! Spirit Speak anyone? heh..heh...rumor has it that they've got a designer from UO employed.

kickstarter.com/projects/1675907842/pathfinder-online-technology-demo - Won't let me use BB code cause I'ma NEWB here...gah...
goblinworks.com/blog/ - Game developers website/blog (updated once a week)
youtube.com/watch?v=FUPrYVkdbc0 - This is a 13min video presentation of the CEO comparing Theme Parks vs Sandbox

[Centerra]

Eve is the closest thing to Ultima these days, and the setting and mechanics put most people off. Still if you work with it and let it take you, it'll take you somewhere amazing. But with it's inherent unfairness and learning curve it will never be for everyone (which has proven to be great for it's community), and solely attracts an odd kind of paranoid, antagonistic, elitist hyper nerd. Only mmo that's really kept me busy post-Ultima.

With wow making mmos part of the mainstream and the cost of making and running them, eve is probably the last of a dead species, and we wont see many if any MUD-like mmos such as UO again. Sad but true. If UO2012 came out tomorrow most mmo players would not be able to hack it.

[Waervyn]

Didn't read the whole thread, so I don't know if it has been mentioned, but check out Project Eternity.

http://eternity.obsidian.net/

AFAIK, there's nothing 'mmo' about project eternity. It's probably gonna be awesome, but is nothing like the game the OP is looking for.

[Strakha]

About 8 years ago I was still playing Ultima Online. There are lots of private servers with private rules and their own unique items such as various ores. There are a lot of options out there to still play UO if you look. I think the Stratics site is still up.

[samhall]

About 8 years ago I was still playing Ultima Online. There are lots of private servers with private rules and their own unique items such as various ores. There are a lot of options out there to still play UO if you look. I think the Stratics site is still up.

Joinuo.com is a pretty good reference for free servers. I play on Rel Por, and its a really cool server. Very fast combat/mage skill gains, custom map, and perpetual militia PVP. Pseudoseer system where players can possess monsters/creatures for events and endless RP potential. If anyone here feels like joining, I can set you up with some gear to start out with.

[Wolfsage]

Eve is the closest thing to Ultima these days, and the setting and mechanics put most people off. Still if you work with it and let it take you, it'll take you somewhere amazing. But with it's inherent unfairness and learning curve it will never be for everyone (which has proven to be great for it's community), and solely attracts an odd kind of paranoid, antagonistic, elitist hyper nerd. Only mmo that's really kept me busy post-Ultima.

With wow making mmos part of the mainstream and the cost of making and running them, eve is probably the last of a dead species, and we wont see many if any MUD-like mmos such as UO again. Sad but true. If UO2012 came out tomorrow most mmo players would not be able to hack it.

EVE does honor the same principles as Ultima Online for the most part. It's a massive sandbox, full of emergent gameplay and everything that these terms include. But well, it's about spaceships, and it's sci fi. I love EVE, but it's scale is well beyond orbit, as opposed to UO's fantasy setting. And we don't have a modern fantasy MMO that is like UO.

With wow making mmos part of the mainstream and the cost of making and running them, eve is probably the last of a dead species, and we wont see many if any MUD-like mmos such as UO again. Sad but true. If UO2012 came out tomorrow most mmo players would not be able to hack it.

Well, you have a point there. But I don't think this way of doing MMOs is dead. It's just what people like to call "niche". You don't need a 10m+ playerbase to have a healthy and working MMO. EVE for example manages to be very successful with around 400k subs, and it's hardly dying.

Not only that, but I keep seeing the term "sandbox" more and more when it comes to newer MMOs. Taking a look at massively for insance shows that sandbox gameplay is being talked about more and more by players and developers alike. I wouldn't call that a dying species. Sure, examples of harsh death consequences in MMOs may remain extremely rare, but I think that's only a tiny little fraction of what we're talking about here, almost negligible.

The thing is, newer MMOs tend to focus more on the "themepark game" part and less on the "virtual world sandbox" part, and that gives you MMOs (generally speaking, of course) with little depth, little potential for being immersed, and little chance of them being an unforgettable experience.


I have faith that next-gen MMOs will return to the sandbox model. After all, themepark MMOs haven't been very exciting for some time now, have they?

[Alcsaar]

Maybe its nostalgia, but so be it. UO has been by far the best MMO I've ever had the pleasure of playing. Everything about it was awesome. Pre AOS/Pre Trammel was the time to play.

I've just learned to accept that that sort of game can no longer truly exist.

The only game close is Darkfall (Ironically they are "re-releasing" it soon). They have a skill based system with no levels, player housing that other players can raid, ect.

[bbr]

I have faith that next-gen MMOs will return to the sandbox model. After all, themepark MMOs haven't been very exciting for some time now, have they?

Sandboxes are simply awesome.

terraria for instance.

[Dabrix32]

UO is probably one of the best MMOs ever made. A true sandbox MMO where you could do what you wanted and make your character into something you want him to be. If I wanted to go around murdering people and stealing their loot I could. If I wanted to tame a dragon and use it to kill for me I could. If I wanted to go treasure hunting using maps I found I could. Also corpse looting was the best PvP feature EVER. Why they removed that from future games baffles me. I mean in real wars when you kill your enemey do you leave his weapons behind so his friends can use them against you later? Hell no you took his gear so you could use it. Also killing someone and finding out they were an idiot and carried their house key and recall run on them was awesome. Just port to their house and rob them blind.

[Wikkr]

Ill never forget my first home on fire island (before trammel was introduced) Was in a nice area no mobs spawning on my doorstep and a villa to boot. seemed too good to be true till i realised it was smack dab in the middle of two warring PvP guilds. Thankfully one of them took pity on me and introduced me to the pure orgasmic joy of the mace dexxer. Rendering people naked in just a few seconds was so much fun.

One thing i do not miss.... making bandages!

---------- Post added 2012-11-12 at 01:47 AM ----------

Also killing someone and finding out they were an idiot and carried their house key and recall run on them was awesome. Just port to their house and rob them blind.

We used to send bluebies out with fake house recall runes which actually led to a box arena surrounded by reds ^_^ was soooooooooo much fun watching people recall in and die to a dozen corp por's

[Uncle Julian]

About the mounts, not everyone has hours to walk places, or jump through hoops to get a mount, to travel somewhere, then do the objective.

I like Diablo 2 for that, even more so than WoW. Now I know it's not a MMORPG, the game is capped at only a few players. But you can hop in for a few minutes and achieve something. Unlike vanilla wow, where I can fondly remember flying flight paths for a solid 1/2 hour to move around.

Don't invest time or money into a game that you can't play like that then, that's what other mmo's are for. For the people who -do- have the time and find joy in that then UO seems like a much better game

[Centerra]

Well, you have a point there. But I don't think this way of doing MMOs is dead. It's just what people like to call "niche". You don't need a 10m+ playerbase to have a healthy and working MMO. EVE for example manages to be very successful with around 400k subs, and it's hardly dying.

Not only that, but I keep seeing the term "sandbox" more and more when it comes to newer MMOs. Taking a look at massively for insance shows that sandbox gameplay is being talked about more and more by players and developers alike. I wouldn't call that a dying species. Sure, examples of harsh death consequences in MMOs may remain extremely rare, but I think that's only a tiny little fraction of what we're talking about here, almost negligible.

Well, this is true, and I was probably a bit overly dramatic, but aside from CCP (and remembering that Eve will be 10 years old next year), I'm not seeing many devs aiming mmo's at niche appeal. With the exception of Salem which I haven't played, and PS2, which while good isn't really comparable, they are all aping wow and going down the theme park route, ending with the long line of mmos that people are bored with after 6 months that we have now.

I think that devs will eventualy maybe start diversifying into smaller scale mmos at some point, and it's definately a valid business model as you say, but it seems to be taking a while.

[Wolfsage]

Well, this is true, and I was probably a bit overly dramatic, but aside from CCP (and remembering that Eve will be 10 years old next year), I'm not seeing many devs aiming mmo's at niche appeal. With the exception of Salem which I haven't played, and PS2, which while good isn't really comparable, they are all aping wow and going down the theme park route, ending with the long line of mmos that people are bored with after 6 months that we have now.

I think that devs will eventualy maybe start diversifying into smaller scale mmos at some point, and it's definately a valid business model as you say, but it seems to be taking a while.

Well said. That will take time, and it's underway right now. We keep seeing more and more and more of the same, and many of those MMOs just can't sustain themselves and with good reason. The developers will eventually get the point.

I may be wrong about this, but I'll say it anyway. I have the impression that Asian developers, particularly Korea, produce tons of MMOs. While those might not be stellar games, they try new things on occasion, and get made in large quantities. Recently I've been seeing more and more "uncommon" elements popping up in these MMOs (e.g sandbox stuff), and I think that this is a sign that someone is at least 'getting it'. Sure, these MMOs might not be big deal, but they come in great numbers and can afford to experiment. Eventually, I'd expect to see similar things from Western devs, in larger, heavy duty MMOs.

There's also the explosion of the indie scene, which is well known for being innovative, bold and experimental. So there's also that to count on.

[draykorinee]

Guys sorry if I insist, but Greed Monger is really getting a Huge success, is one of the most hyped game on mmorpg.com, has been successfully founded on Kickstarter (33k in 15 days!), new video and screenshots available, the community is growning so fast and it's really pointing in the direction of the true successor of UO, because players and devs are working toghether. All the wishes are listened from the devs and probably implemented, because it's not a multi national company creating it. And beta will be out April 2013. Check out greedmonger.com and have a look in the forums or check the kickstarter campaign. We are really getting our new world we are waiting since long!

Ive backed too many games recently and put too many hopes in to mmo's only to see them crash, but this sure does look like a decent idea, ill see how it develops but I wont be putting any investment in. I look forward to seeing how this pans out.

[procne]

I was thinking about backing greed monger, but I'm used to the fact that you get some nice bonuses on kickstarter. As it is now, for 25$ you get 1 parcel of land (which will cost 20$ at release), access to beta, forum badge, and some map fragments which will show spawn for some rare materials. Of and small skill boost and some settlers hat. The bonus stuff, except for land parcel is barely worth 5$ to me, so I don't know if I will decide to back it. And higher tier rewards are even more disappointing. 25$ more and you get another parcel of land and some pdf with recipes list (something you will be able to download for free most likely).

Maybe I'm spoilt, but usually I expect some nice goodies with huge discounts when backing up indie game on kickstarter, which you don't even know if it will even be released, if it will be fun, if they keep all their promises, not knowing WHEN it will be available. As it stands now, you can only preorder stuff at only slightly lower prices than at release. So I'll just wait for when the game is released and IF it's fun I might buy some land parcels.

[procne]

Well, I'll see. I have not decided yet, but maybe I will pledge 25$.

Thanks for the invite though, I will consider it if I get into beta.

Although one thing worries me. They say that everything will be player made and world will be devoid of NPCs and structures at the start. Yet, at the same time, they are offering premade castles to backers...

[Spider3]

procne this is not correct. I am a backer of a castle, but I doubt I will receive a castle on day 0. I will need probably to BUILD my castle after gathering the resource needed

[procne]

Well, then I don't get this. How can they say you will get a castle when you will have to build it? This way every player receives a castle.
Or will you only get some plans / schematics / recipe, unique to backers? But then why didn't they write "castle plans" instead of simply "castle"

[Wolfsage]

Well, then I don't get this. How can they say you will get a castle when you will have to build it? This way every player receives a castle.
Or will you only get some plans / schematics / recipe, unique to backers? But then why didn't they write "castle plans" instead of simply "castle"

They'll come up with some way. Anyway, the point here isn't this specific MMO.


Although, keep in mind that a sandbox needs to get it's gears working someway, in the beginning that is. It's only natural that the developers will have to jump-start the economy with NPC-seeded stuff that will be later removed and left in the hands of the playerbase. Like CCP did in the early days of EVE.





The point still stands though: WTB quality fantasy MMORPG.

[Spider3]

Well, then I don't get this. How can they say you will get a castle when you will have to build it? This way every player receives a castle.
Or will you only get some plans / schematics / recipe, unique to backers? But then why didn't they write "castle plans" instead of simply "castle"

As you know, the game is still in pre-alpha stage therefore devs are not going to tell exactly detailed informations. I suggest you wo watch the interview with markee dragon to find out more about the idea and the concept of Jason (the creator). But he was very clear on one point: on day 0, there will be nothing, only plants, animals, resources to gather. And I'm sure there will be some work around for the castle owner. May be there will be NPC builder and the castle will be ready in 1 week of real time or something similar. but personally I think he will respect this point.