1. #1
    Stood in the Fire Laevus's Avatar
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    Bear: Dodge vs Agility

    Taken from Elitest Jerks:
    Agility
    Agility increases your attack power, chance to crit, and chance to dodge. It does not provide armor anymore. Each point of agility provides 2 AP, which is good for both threat and Savage Defense. It takes 324.85 agility for 1% crit and 243.58281085 agility for 1% dodge.

    Dodge
    Although none of our gear (aside from possibly trinkets) comes with dodge on it, you can reforge your gear for dodge. It takes 176.71899 dodge rating for 1 point of dodge.
    So what I'm wondering is would it be worth gemming and stacking with a preference for agility instead of dodge? It's takes 67 more points of agility to hit that +1% dodge, but agility grants AP (threat, more damage, faster dying mobs) and crit (self heals, mastery proc) AND dodge. Dodge just gives, well, I'm sure you can work that out

    You can reforge for extra dodge, or use +agi/+dodge gems to get some extra, but would it still be viable to tank with? I would say that if a Bear tank was going to be Off Tank in raids, then (sensibly) stacking agility would be a good idea as then you'll do better damage for one tank moments when you shift to cat form and dps. It should also make you perfectly survivable in bear form. I couldn't find any geeky maths guides about this or previous discussions. If anyone knows of one, please post a link.

    Any comments or thoughts?
    "I should have done it all so differently, but I'm just me." - Evergrey

  2. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by Laevus View Post
    Taken from Elitest Jerks:


    So what I'm wondering is would it be worth gemming and stacking with a preference for agility instead of dodge? It's takes 67 more points of agility to hit that +1% dodge, but agility grants AP (threat, more damage, faster dying mobs) and crit (self heals, mastery proc) AND dodge. Dodge just gives, well, I'm sure you can work that out

    You can reforge for extra dodge, or use +agi/+dodge gems to get some extra, but would it still be viable to tank with? I would say that if a Bear tank was going to be Off Tank in raids, then (sensibly) stacking agility would be a good idea as then you'll do better damage for one tank moments when you shift to cat form and dps. It should also make you perfectly survivable in bear form. I couldn't find any geeky maths guides about this or previous discussions. If anyone knows of one, please post a link.

    Any comments or thoughts?
    i have often wondered the same since i hit 85 on my druid late last week

  3. #3
    In all cases agility is better than dodge. We only reforge for dodge because agi is a primary stat and so not available for reforging.

  4. #4
    For gemming you want to go for agi if you feel you have a sufficient healthpool (unburstable).

    agi = crit + ap + dodge, 3 defensive stats for us. It naturally depends on socket bonuses aswell.

    If you want some more indepth explenation check out theincbear.com

  5. #5
    Go agi all the way. As for dodge.. the only time you should gem dodge is to activate your meta.

    Mastery procs & Dodge & Crit & AP > Dodge
    "Those who dance appear insane to those who can't hear the music." ~~ George Carlin


  6. #6
    wow thanks for the input i dunno about the op but that sure made up my mind thanks again

  7. #7
    I prefer agi over dodge, as u pointed out agi does give dodge, but it increases chance on mastery to proc which i feel to be better then dodge

  8. #8
    Agility is better than dodge. You've already stated the reasons; less dodge, more crit, more attack power, leading to stronger and more savage defenses.

  9. #9
    Dreadlord
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    im using agility and mastery also and finding that im more stable than using dodge gems or remastered dodge.. u get more AP from agi which increases savage defense which is also nicely buffed by mastery.. only gems i use are agi/stam and the odd mastery/stam for meta etc.. then use reforge to get exp soft capped (26) and hit capped (8%) reforge rest into mastery then,, only try to reforge haste tho,, crit is awesome to have for them sav defs
    ........THE WRITING'S ON THE WALL !!!!!

  10. #10
    Stood in the Fire Laevus's Avatar
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    Thanks for confirming my thoughts, just wanted to check before cutting lots of the wrong gems. Again.
    "I should have done it all so differently, but I'm just me." - Evergrey

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by invader View Post
    im using agility and mastery also and finding that im more stable than using dodge gems or remastered dodge.. u get more AP from agi which increases savage defense which is also nicely buffed by mastery.. only gems i use are agi/stam and the odd mastery/stam for meta etc.. then use reforge to get exp soft capped (26) and hit capped (8%) reforge rest into mastery then,, only try to reforge haste tho,, crit is awesome to have for them sav defs
    I am confused as to why you think you need soft expertise cap and hit cap? Hit cap is not necessary at all, unless interrupting a boss (which is pretty much 10 man raiding only). Soft expertise cap is very good for bears in 359+, but still only barely beats out crit for mitigation. Any points after 26 expertise are just as valuable as hit, making it pretty much negligible. Also, dodge is more reliable than mastery, but it is preference on what you prefer to gem/reforge.

  12. #12
    Dreadlord
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    hit cap is a must i reckon no matter what ya doin.. HIT the fekker first, ask questions about exp/crit later ;p.... i raid 10 mans as feral tank and i always get the job of interupting certain bosses etc, like the two bosses on the right (BoT) the council what ever they are,, lots of interupts to nail there... exp cap i just think helps if u got 26..(plus that clunk sound when u miss pisses me off) im at 30% dodge with no gemming/remastering for any (seems enough for now, also not sure what the DR is with dodge atm).. i just reckon agility and mastery are working very well for us atm,
    Last edited by invader; 2011-02-08 at 02:01 PM.
    ........THE WRITING'S ON THE WALL !!!!!

  13. #13
    Hit is only a must if you need to interrupt. If you dont have to interrupt hit is a subpar stat atm.

    personally I would suggest having fluid death lying around for those situations where you have to interrupt, and otherwise focus on agi for gemming and dodge for reforging. Assuming you have a sufficient healthpool.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by invader View Post
    hit cap is a must i reckon no matter what ya doin.. HIT the fekker first, ask questions about exp/crit later ;p.... i raid 10 mans as feral tank and i always get the job of interupting certain bosses etc, like the two bosses on the right (BoT) the council what ever they are,, lots of interupts to nail there... exp cap i just think helps if u got 26..(plus that clunk sound when u miss pisses me off) im at 30% dodge with no gemming/remastering for any (seems enough for now, also not sure what the DR is with dodge atm).. i just reckon agility and mastery are working very well for us atm,
    As the poster above said, hit is sub par unless on a fight where you must interrupt. The first ~5 seconds of a fight are the only times threat matters (excluding adds entering the fight) where you typically have a rogue or hunter for tricks/misdirect. Dodge DR is at an amount that it's very hard to reach at the moment. You can't really be gearing specifically for fights where you have to interrupt. That is what Fluid Death is for, 321 hit, and a hit food for an extra 90 hit, these give plenty of hit. If you really want to keep your healers loving you and you not risking death, keep your health pool at a viable level, then focus on dodge. Like I said before, soft expertise cap is only better than crit in mostly 359 gear (Double Attack Handguards are the type of items we will be looking for in 359+ gear).

  15. #15
    Sstack agility gems/enchants as much as you can...you have plenty of hp without stam gems

    with reforging...haste is the most useless stat for bears so reforge that to dodge if u only go bear
    personally i swap to cat quite often so i like to keep some haste for energy regen even tho im bear most of the time

    i also try to keep hit cap and close to expertise cap...they arent important but i like to do it anyway cause i hate getting like double or triple misses if ur unlucky :P

    in my opinion for a sort of hybrid gear reforge
    Agil > Mastery > Crit > Haste

    Bear only
    Agility > Dodge > Mastery > Crit > Stam > Haste

    Mastery great for bear absorb and cat dots
    Crit good for procing bear mastery and cat double combo pt
    Haste good for cat energy regen...useless for bear

    thats just me anyway....the lower hp doesnt bother my guild

  16. #16
    Definitely stack agi all the way imo!

    Check out my toon:

    us.battle.net/wow/en/character/thaurissan/Bnaarok/advanced

    I end up with like 45-50% avoidance raid buffed, heal like a mofo and do about 20k dps single target at the same time!

  17. #17
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    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bump_(Internet)#Necrobumps:
    "Necroposting" (also called "necrobumping" or "gravedigging"), occurs when a forum thread that has been inactive for a long time, typically years, is bumped by a reader, usually in response to what he inadvertently believes to be an ongoing discussion, perhaps coming from a web search rather than from within the forum.

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